Off topic posts from "Getting them to Reveal their Vitals"

[hunni2006]

people will "bump" your thread if they see your question hasnt been answered. If they are unable to offer advice themselves it will just move your thread to the top of the pile:D

 

Even though you POC were incredibly vague if you read it carefully, they mention the account so you can ask for a copy of the agreement and they mention having purchased the account so you can ask for the assignment note.

 

Theoretically supporting documents would include the statement of account making up the sum they say you owe, T&cs, etc. So you are well covered.

 

You are a LiP (LItigant in Person) so you will be cut some slack.. either way, they cant do very much about it,

 

Thanks for that, going to sleep on all this and hopefully it will feel a bit clearer in the morning!

[tosh1]

Subbing

[katedog]

Hi all

 

still quite new to this,

CCA'd tesco and got an application form signed by me. it had no prescribed terms on it at all.

Have now disputed this and sent a request under cpr part 31.16 (i hope that was right)

they replied syaing that is your agreement and its all your getting, we're going to destroy your credit rating.

but they have not said there taking me to court because they know they cant

what do i now do under cpr to get them to send me the cca I know they havent got or do i have to wait for them to take me to court first

can i apply to court for them to produce it first

or do i apply to court to make a ruling on the enforceability of the application form

please look at my thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/207916-tesco-pf-no-cca.html

 

any help/comments appreciated.

 

Katedog.

Edited July 23, 2009 by katedog
wrong link added

[tosh1]

have you recieved a default notice on the account

[katedog]

have you recieved a default notice on the account

 

i have never had a default to the best of my knowledge but their last letter says they have now registered a default due to my non-payment

 

i only didnt pay because they didnt respond to my cca request

 

so i guess the default isnt properly done.

 

katedog.

[ltc1607]

sub

[katedog]

There seems to be some confusion here as to a default & a default notice.

 

A default can be registered by a creditor or DCA on your credit reference file any time you miss a specified payment. It's usually when you are 3 months in arrears but not always. They will usually write & tell you that this will be their action if you don't sort your account out.

 

A default notice MUST be issued by a creditor prior to terminating your account & it has to be in a format specified by the regulations & state the statutory notice by way of specific date by which you have to pay the arrears. They also MUST prove that the notice was sent on a date that would permit you the 14 days notice so it is very important that you keep any envelopes that a DN is delivered in. If the statutory requirements are not met in any form & the account is then terminated, the OC is only entitled to collect the arrears at the date of the DN & never, ever the full balance of the account.

 

I hope that helps you, katedog, establish which situation applies to you.

 

 

In that case I have not had a default notice, and had not had a deafult on the account as yet................

[RobinWayRobinme]

Hi CitizenB. Can you tell me how I insert a link here to my own thread? Many thanx

[citizenB]

Hi CitizenB. Can you tell me how I insert a link here to my own thread? Many thanx

 

 

Have put the link here for you..

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/212396-trying-set-aside-judgement.html

 

What you do is go into your own thread, highlight and copy the URL in the address bar at the top of the screen. Then hightail it over to the thread you want to put the link, start a new post and paste the link you copied. HTH

[RobinWayRobinme]

Many thanks for help citizenB. Just posted my amended version of 31.14

[Guest Alison82]

Hi just wondering if CPR 31.14 apply to small claims cases as argos doesn't seem to think so

[the_shadow]

Hi just wondering if CPR 31.14 apply to small claims cases as argos doesn't seem to think so

 

It does if you get in prior to the AQ stage which is when it is designated either a small claims/multi-track or fast track case. You have to send it asap after getting a court claim IMHO.

 

 

S.

[sunflower99]

Very interesting informative thread! subbing!

[foolishgirl]

 

Does the fact the T & c's are not provided legibly put them in breach of the Judges Order for a copy of the agreement.?. do these t & c's form part of the agreement when the signatures are before the t & c's not after them? Would it be worth sending a request such as this 31.14 or shall we be safe leaving it with the Judges Order..?

 

 

 

Wouldn't the T&Cs only form part of the agreement if they were 'within the 4 corners' of it?

[Stubie]

Wouldn't the T&Cs only form part of the agreement if they were 'within the 4 corners' of it?

 

I think the T&Cs can be referenced from the agreement, and only form part of it if the reference is present but the omission of the T&Cs is not fatal to the agreement, only the omission of the PTs.

 

If the T&Cs are missing then this is of no consequence from an enforcibility perspective.

 

That's my understanding.

 

The Agreement regs (SI 1553 1983) detail the PTs. Only these have any bearing on the enforcibility as they relate back to s61 of the CCA 1974

[jaznh]

Hi x20,

I'm Jaznh & was pointed to this excellent thread by 42man; who has also been very helpful in my wife's case with Cohen sol's, handled by Northampton CC.

I do, however, have a few questions:

 

i) I think in an early post in this thread, you said you would post something that would show how to proceed if one had used a CPR 31 request, but got no response. That is our exact situation, but I'm sure I've not read anything herein as to how to proceed. Sorry if I've completely lost myself, but I don't know how to react to the fact that the solicitors have not replied. Also, I'm trying to handle this for my wife; so I'm particularly sensitive not to mess it up.

 

ii) Whether this is just my utter failure to comprehend everything that's being documented here; & to say, too, with many extensive & greatly appreciated efforts, I simply don't know how to frame the defence. Is there any chance of some help with this?

 

iii) This is in relation to the defence: 42man advised me to question the validity of the interest that the CA is charging in my CPR31 request, but I did forget. Would there be some way of bringing that up before we eventually go to court?

 

Many thanks for the abundant knowledge that you are giving out; I hope I can sort this out for my wife. Thank you also, for any response in advance, Regards, JnH.

PS: A link to my thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/216902-county-court-claim-jaznh.html

[Scatty1985]

Hi,

 

I've been reading this thread with great interest, though I've found it a little hard to digest as this is the first time I've been involved in anything like this.

 

I have a case myself which is only at the beginning but I am trying to arm myself as best I can ready for the fight.

 

I wondered if anyone here with experience in similar cases to mine could offer some advice and guidance.

 

At the moment this is how my case stands. I took out a staff loan back in June 2007 for a value of £9.6k. A few weeks ago I sent an s77 request to Lloyds and they responded by sending me an unsigned agreement (one sheet detailing the loan amount, APR, number of repayments etc) a signed direct debit instruction and a statement of the account.

 

I’m at a point where I would like to issue a default on the basis that they have not fulfilled s77 which states they must send a copy of the original executed agreement, as what they have sent me is a copy of an unexecuted agreement (unsigned, does not comply with s61(1) agreement).

 

It’s been noted that a CPR 31.14 request would be helpful however I am not sure as to what my next step should be in this case.

 

I would be very grateful if anyone could have a look at my case and offer any guidance as to how I should proceed.

 

This is my thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/219522-have-i-got-lloyds.html

 

Many thanks!

Edited September 21, 2009 by Scatty1985

[r&b]

Hi,

 

I've been reading this thread with great interest, though I've found it a little hard to digest as this is the first time I've been involved in anything like this.

 

I have a case myself which is only at the beginning but I am trying to arm myself as best I can ready for the fight.

 

I wondered if anyone here with experience in similar cases to mine could offer some advice and guidance.

 

At the moment this is how my case stands. I took out a staff loan back in June 2007 for a value of £9.6k. A few weeks ago I sent an s77 request to Lloyds and they responded by sending me an unsigned agreement (one sheet detailing the loan amount, APR, number of repayments etc) a signed direct debit instruction and a statement of the account.

 

I’m at a point where I would like to issue a default on the basis that they have not fulfilled s77 which states they must send a copy of the original executed agreement, as what they have sent me is a copy of an unexecuted agreement (unsigned, does not comply with s61(1) agreement).

 

It’s been noted that a CPR 31.14 request would be helpful however I am not sure as to what my next step should be in this case.

 

I would be very grateful if anyone could have a look at my case and offer any guidance as to how I should proceed.

 

This is my thread: Have I got Lloyds over a barrel? - The Consumer Forums

 

Many thanks!

 

car seems to have explained it on your thread??

[Scatty1985]

R&B, I think I'm getting confused. I thought a CPR 31.14 request would help my case however if I'm understanding this right it would actually make no difference? If the case went to court and the creditor failed to produce the signed agreement through a CPR request the judge could/would still enforce the agreement regardless?

 

What I'm also confused about is how do I get to the stage of issuing a CPR request? Do I instigate the court action, if so how? Or do I wait for them to instigate it against me by withholding payment as the account is in dispute?

[r&b]

R&B, I think I'm getting confused. I thought a CPR 31.14 request would help my case however if I'm understanding this right it would actually make no difference? If the case went to court and the creditor failed to produce the signed agreement through a CPR request the judge could/would still enforce the agreement regardless?

What I'm also confused about is how do I get to the stage of issuing a CPR request? Do I instigate the court action, if so how? Or do I wait for them to instigate it against me by withholding payment as the account is in dispute?

 

my understanding is that a 31.14 request is for disclosure of docs referred to in the POC (when in court proceedings), a 31.16 request is made for disclosure prior to potential court proceedings, not necessarily impending if thats the confusion?

personally i dont see what good further disclosure will make in your case if i have read it correctly. they have provided an executed agreement satisfying s77/78 and even without being signed it is at the discretion of the court as to the enforcement of this agreement. in my opinion they will simply send u the same thing every time u ask and potentially rely on it in court. if u fight and lose there are also cost implications especially if this is fast track, something to bear in mind.

not sure if u have sent one, but maybe a SAR might be a better bet regarding the termination of the account in particular (if have u have stopped paying?) if there are other issues, it may help to sway a DJ in your direction but tipping the scales in your favour will be tough. just my thoughts u understand.

[Scatty1985]

Yea I see what you mean, it’s very frustrating. Had I taken the loan out 3 months earlier I'd have had no problem as s.127(3) would have applied.

 

What would stop Lloyds producing a doctored agreement stating a different interest rate or loan amount? Surly if they did that they could go to court and get a judge to enforce that too? It seems that with no signed agreement I have no protection from what the creditor could do.

[diddydicky]

subbing

[MAGDA]

Hi x20,

I'm Jaznh & was pointed to this excellent thread by 42man; who has also been very helpful in my wife's case with Cohen sol's, handled by Northampton CC.

I do, however, have a few questions:

 

i) I think in an early post in this thread, you said you would post something that would show how to proceed if one had used a CPR 31 request, but got no response. That is our exact situation, but I'm sure I've not read anything herein as to how to proceed. Sorry if I've completely lost myself, but I don't know how to react to the fact that the solicitors have not replied. Also, I'm trying to handle this for my wife; so I'm particularly sensitive not to mess it up.

 

ii) Whether this is just my utter failure to comprehend everything that's being documented here; & to say, too, with many extensive & greatly appreciated efforts, I simply don't know how to frame the defence. Is there any chance of some help with this?

 

iii) This is in relation to the defence: 42man advised me to question the validity of the interest that the CA is charging in my CPR31 request, but I did forget. Would there be some way of bringing that up before we eventually go to court?

 

Many thanks for the abundant knowledge that you are giving out; I hope I can sort this out for my wife. Thank you also, for any response in advance, Regards, JnH.

PS: A link to my thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/216902-county-court-claim-jaznh.html

 

Hi Jaznh, if you made a CPR 31.14 request and didn't get any response then your next option would be to complete an N244 (there is a fee unfortunately of £75) and send to the court for an order compelling the claimant to comply with your request or their claim will be struck out. You can further request an order for costs against the claimant at the same time (for the cost you have incurred for the application).

 

Was the document you requested under cpr 31.14 mentioned in the claimant's Statement of Case, in other words disclosed?

 

Re: the validity of the interest being charged, you could write to the claimant asking them to clarify the points you are querying (just a standard letter) and depending on the response you can bring that up in your defence or skeleton argument that you will be doing later on - has the claim been allocated to any track yet?

 

Magda

Edited September 28, 2009 by MAGDA

[r&b]

Hi Jaznh, if you made a CPR 31.14 request and didn't get any response then your next option would be to complete an N244 (there is a fee unfortunately of £75) and send to the court for an order compelling the claimant to comply with your request or their claim will be struck out. You can further request an order for costs against the claimant at the same time (for the cost you have incurred for the application).

 

Magda

 

it may be an idea to send a reminder first, enclosing your original request, and a further warning, in order that you show u have been reasonable in your request.

[MAGDA]

it may be an idea to send a reminder first, enclosing your original request, and a further warning, in order that you show u have been reasonable in your request.

 

well spotted r&b:), forgot to mention that. If they still do not respond (more than likely) then you can do the N244.

 

Magda