G24 parking charge notices received **Won at POPLA**

[f16]

RE your #14 "appeal to land owner" . You could speak to the retailer, they might be able to help.

Best wait for new instructions from ericsbrother or other legal CAGGERS

Shame you posted that letter.

[armadillo71]

Yes, I can get photos tomorrow or at the weekend. I tried this evening but had problems with the lack of light(!) There is a single notice several yards away from the entrance saying free parking up to 90 minutes and charges apply thereafter and referring to more detailed info elsewhere on site. It's not ideally located but it's difficult to argue that it's not apparent. There's one sign providing more detailed info, including the £100 charge after 90 mins.

 

Have you no flash on your camera/phone?

The signage you have described is a contractual charge. Is there a facility to pay the £100 if you want to stay more than 90mins?

The wording of the sign is important.

What exactly did you write in your letter to G24?

[AndyOrch]

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

.

************************* ************************* *******

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

************************* ************************* ***********

.

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or http://www.freepdfconvert.com/

or

use http://www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though dont use full bank names or CAGicon in the title

i'e Default notice DDicon-mm-yyyy TSB

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

...

YOU DONT have to put a link to the attachment in the msg box..just upload it ..job done

.

dx

[G24 victim]

Have you no flash on your camera/phone?

The signage you have described is a contractual charge. Is there a facility to pay the £100 if you want to stay more than 90mins?

The wording of the sign is important.

What exactly did you write in your letter to G24?

 

The flash didn't work - battery too low, I suspect. I'll try again. There is no facility at all to pay the additional charge. My letter said: "Dear Sir, Contractual parking charge noticesI have received your invoices with the above references. In order to succeed with your claims, you will need to prove the identity of the drivers of the vehicle on each occasion. I request that you provide me with the evidence that you have. Yours faithfully,"

[G24 victim]

Hi - Here are the pix of the signs. Do they tell us anything useful? Incidentally, the letter from G24 is entitled "Contractual Parking Charge Notice" so I think we're in the territory of claiming unfair terms rather than refuting "damages". I'll have a go at posting the letter here.

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49257[/ATTACH]

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49258[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]49256[/ATTACH]

 

 

[G24 victim]

And here is the letter.....

[G24 victim]

The pix of the notice looked to small to read so It may work better if I attach them here..

[ericsbrother]

I might be misreading it but they dont say what the terms are so therefore no contract can be properly formed. Your jpg of the notice to keeper is too small to read, can you tell us what the text says?

Charge cannot be a contractual charge as there isnt a contract so what does the £100 represent if it isnt a breach of contract or an agreed charge? I'm not sure waht POPLA will make of that but I am fairly certain that any attempt to recover money via a court claim will be shot down on this point, not to mention all the usual proof of loss arguments..

[G24 victim]

Third attempt. PDFs this time. (Site notices attached)

[ericsbrother]

by saying that they will add another £60 if they pass it over to a debt recovery company they are including a penalty clause in the supposed contract. that is a no-no.

By claiming unfair terms to POPLA you are risking them deciding in the parking co's favour. By all means use the £60 penalty a an unfair term as well as going for proof of entitlement to claim and genuine pre-estimate of loss and check on other cases that have been through the courts to see what the judges thought as the exact wording of the signs differentiate between a breach of contract and a contractual term. They also mention parking without permission, which is trespass and that is down to landlord, they cannot claim. A real mixed up signage.

Respond to parking co with unfair contract clauses and point out the £60 penalty and the trespass bit and when they reject your appela to them go for everything at POPLA

[G24 victim]

NTK PDFs re-attached. The on-site signs say "If your vehicle remains on-site for more than the free stay period you agree to pay a £100 parking charge" etc. Please let me know if the images are still no good.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49291[/ATTACH]

Edited February 17, 2014 by citizenB

[G24 victim]

That's excellent advice. Will do. Thank yous! Needless to say, I'll be posting updates.

[ericsbrother]

OK, they also charge £2.50 for paying,which is illegal as well. They dont want much do they?

send them your appeal on the basis of that you parked without permission and therefore the contractual terms do not apply as per their sign.

Let them sort out that one.

[G24 victim]

Intriguing stuff! I'm having trouble getting my head around this "parking without permission" point. Are we saying that, if I have accepted the terms, I have "permission" to park and, if I have not accepted the terms, I do not have "permission" to park and, having not accepted the terms, there can be no contract? In that case, the notice is saying that I agree to the vehicle owner being issued with a parking charge notice but are we saying that that notice is not backed up by any contract because the contract in the site notice is about parking "with permission" rather than "without permission". If anyone can unravel this, I'd be quite fascinated!

 

Incidentally, do the various dodgy conditions in the notice (£2.50 additional charge, £60 additional charge) actually make the whole "contract" unenforceable? If so, is that by virtue of the Unfair Contract Terms legislation?

[ericsbrother]

The garbled signage and mangled language of the letters reinforces the position that the signage is insufficient to be considered a contract.

[ericsbrother]

Dont take it too seriously at this point, you have to send your letter of appeal to them and they will undoubtedly reject this. You can then appeal to POPLA who can make some sense of it as they are lawyers. It is all part of a strange game so just get the thing started and everything will fall into place.

[f16]

G24 victim, Can you post up the other ticket you got as well because I think there maybe another error.

 

You need to edit the first letter you put up #36 (site team notified )

[citizenB]

G24 victim, Can you post up the other ticket you got as well because I think there maybe another error.

 

You need to edit the first letter you put up #36 (site team notified )

 

I have edited it out for you.

[G24 victim]

First NTK re-attached in next post

Edited February 18, 2014 by G24 victim
Attachment needs editing

[f16]

Hi G24, The letter needs to be edited (site team notified)

[slick132]

Attachment in post #44 has been unapproved for now.

 

Please hide the rear number plate on the pic and the Reg No which is written on line 1 of the writing to the left of the pic. Put it back up in another post.

 

[G24 victim]

First NTK [re-]attached now. The payment slip was destroyed along with the cheque that I nearly posted. Thanks for looking at this.

[f16]

You don't want to be posting this lot a cheque.... Best move you made was "destroying it".

So thats the first letter edited . Can you re submit the 2nd letter? Scrub that..... It's been done...

Cheers F16

[ericsbrother]

The main question that never gets answered by the parking companies is what right do they have to issue such demands. they claim a contract with the landowner but this is usually flawed and doesnt answer the old question of losses caused by your overstay or trespass.

Now you just wait to see what they say next.

[G24 victim]

Hi, G24 were pretty quick in rejecting my appeal (as predicted). I've drafted the attached for POPLA. I'd be delighted if [ATTACH=CONFIG]49443[/ATTACH]anyone wants to take a look at it and offer any pointers.