Private landlord selling house, and can't afford to rent privately again

[speedfreek]

Estelyn is basically spot on.

 

The Council will not rehouse you until you are within 28 days of being homeless - some like mine will not even consider it until the day the bailiffs turn up to evict.

 

The reason being there is such a shortage of housing it's offered on a most in need basis. You are housed and until a possession order is granted by a Judge you are not in any immediate risk of homelessness.

 

If your landlord will not apply for possession then the Council will not act unless they illegally evict you. If they illegally evict you they would be in a whole world of trouble so it sounds like you are being harassed to vacate.

 

Your contract is with your current landlord & not the buyers. Until the house changes hands then the buyers become your landlord. You until that happens should only communicate in writing with your landlord or his agent. Politely remind anybody else that you require all communication in writing, you have no contract with them and further or continued attempts at contact will be recorded and a complaint of harassment will be lodged with the police if they do not cease immediately.

 

Keep a log of any contact by the landlord or anybody else with regards to this matter. If you can record all conversations and telephone calls even better.

 

 

Now housing are you on the Councils housing list? Are you bidding on properties? Have you/your wife filled in the separate medical questionnaire which bumps up your need/points housing list classification. Have the mental health team put what you've told us here in writing and either yourself or them given that to the Council. Can the mental health team not assist you with finding accommodation?

 

 

Being evicted is a very long process 4-6 months from service of a section 21 notice and that's only if the Landlord gets everything right! You are in absolutely no danger of becoming homeless until a court hearing has occurred and a possession date granted. Even then it's only once the possession date has passed can they apply to the court to get the bailiff to evict you - the date the bailiff attends really is the final date. If your landlord is not prepared to follow legal process you just stay until he does. The buyer can not evict you until he owns the house as you do not have a contract with them until it becomes their property. Then the buyer becomes your landlord and would have to serve you a section 21 notice effectively starting from scratch the whole process.

 

I would speculate that the buyers want vacant possession and your current landlord has made a complete mess of everything.

 

You really need to get this thread transfered to the Residential Letting section of the board as you're in a very strong position and they really are best at advising on these matters.

[alpo287]

We are on the housing list and are actively bidding but have zero points. She has applied to health and housing for extra points twice and both times have been refused with the reason given 'There is no evidence that your current property is having an affect on your health, or making it worse'. Yes, her mental health team and psychiatrist have wrote to the council five times including twice as supporting evidence for the health and housing (proof of medication etc). Each time they refused for the same reason I have given above, that she doesn't have any mobility problems, getting up and down stairs etc therefore no further points will be awarded. Her mental health workers have now passed this (the health and housing part) over to the MP who is investigating it.

 

The mental health team only accompany us to council appointments, write letters to them, contact housing associations, explain urgency to council etc. They can't actually find us somewhere to live, and they have basically said they then have to make it an issue for social services if the council won't home us. I'm just wondering what exactly social services would do different to everyone else? The council has their policy and process and they are sticking to it, but we get all the harassment to move.

[alpo287]

Also, why did the housing guy tell me that on the day the landlord and buyer exchange contracts on that day we can come in and they will give us temp accommodation? On one hand we are being told that we can't get ANY help from the local authority, whether it's temp or permanent housing, until the bailiff is at the door, but then on the other he is saying that when the house is the property of the buyer we can be handed temp accommodation? The temporary accommodation bit is the only confusing part for me.

[estellyn]

While the landlord and buyer believe that the harassment is working, they will continue. I would advise writing a firm letter to both now, explaining the situation, and that in order for you to leave, court action needs to be commenced. Explain that any further harassment by phone or in person will be reported to the police and that all further communication should be in writing. Make it clear that regardless of what the landlord claims the council told him, they have made it quite clear to you, that they are unable to rehome without evidence of court action, and that they should proceed according, and that leaving of your own volition will make your family homeless.

 

 

If you receive any further contact not in letter or email form, then report them to the police. Having had to report a previous landlord to the police, myself, the subsequent visit they received was very effective.

 

 

Be firm at this stage. Set out the terms, and it should make the wait easier and less harassment filled. Remember not to feel guilty or that you're causing trouble. This is your family that you need to protect and that is your priority, the landlord and buyer both knew what they were getting into and both know the remedies that have to happen.

[Madamfluff]

While the landlord and buyer believe that the harassment is working, they will continue. I would advise writing a firm letter to both now, explaining the situation, and that in order for you to leave, court action needs to be commenced. Explain that any further harassment by phone or in person will be reported to the police and that all further communication should be in writing. Make it clear that regardless of what the landlord claims the council told him, they have made it quite clear to you, that they are unable to rehome without evidence of court action, and that they should proceed according, and that leaving of your own volition will make your family homeless.

 

 

If you receive any further contact not in letter or email form, then report them to the police. Having had to report a previous landlord to the police, myself, the subsequent visit they received was very effective.

 

 

Be firm at this stage. Set out the terms, and it should make the wait easier and less harassment filled. Remember not to feel guilty or that you're causing trouble. This is your family that you need to protect and that is your priority, the landlord and buyer both knew what they were getting into and both know the remedies that have to happen.

 

 

Totally and utterly correct its not your problem if the LL or buyer are losing money you have no responsibility for their losses your responsibility ( and it looks like you are doing a brilliant job) is to your family

[abc123def]

I was given notice to leave my last rental property and as it was my 3rd move in 2.5yrs due to no fault of mine I couldn't bear it any longer and registered as homeless with the LA for the 2nd time. They told me they would provide me with temporary accommodation but in recognition that I needed more security than normal would offer me LA owned temporary accommodation. But that would take time to find and organise and they told me to sit tight and wait for legal action by my present landlords to give them time to find us somewhere. Actually my landlords might have had problems in court had they got as far as taking me there as they never deposited my deposit in a set scheme and instead pocketed it themselves, so courts may well have awarded me 3 times the deposit had they got me there but that's another story. I only say because I totally empathise with the stress and upset at 'overstaying your welcome' beyond the date of the notice to leave. I had the owners banging on my door and sobbing at me most days with their children looking at me through the car windows outside, leaving me in tears inside and my children consolling me. It was awful. I continued to pay my rent as normal, though I deducted the deposit from my final months rent as I wasn't sure it would be returned to me as it wasn't in a scheme. I did leave the property immaculate. The council found me somewhere after a few weeks before any court action was started, but the stress of that time was awful.

 

My advice though is to do as the council says, if someone needs more security than private rental often provides then stay put, ride out the discomfort and wait for any court action even after the property sells. Estelyn is absolutely right, make sure the current landlords know right now that you will not be vacating the property until court action is taken and then wait. It will be worth it. If the new owners know in advance that you will not be moving before any court action is taken then they will be prepared for that and can make their own decision about whether to proceed with the sale and if they do proceed then that proves they are either fine with renting to you OR they are prepared to take court action, so with full knowledge and communication now, the ball is in their court.

 

A note though, LA temporary accommodation is a moveable feast too. The LA can move you on at any time if your circumstances change at all, the only difference is they have to offer you something else instead but as with each move you have costs such as moving, floor coverings/carpets etc, curtain rails, cookers etc. with the exception of the removal costs aren't normal expenses with private rentals, sometimes temporary accommodation with the LA that you get moved on from can often cost you more money wise though knowing they have a duty to house you is a security worth having imo.

[alpo287]

Thanks for all the help. I will get some letters sorted out, though with the landlord himself I can handle him and tell him quite clearly over the phone that nobody is going to budge without court action. We are actually still on good terms with the landlord himself believe or not. He keeps telling us that he sympathizes with our situation, and he won't make us homeless, he just wants us re-homed so he can proceed with his buying and selling transactions and what not. It will cost him too much money to go to court when after he has been to court we still have to leave within 2 weeks away. That's his view. He has a way of trying to make us feel guilty without outright coming out and saying it. He will keep ringing and saying ' so what's happening'. He also keeps using the fact that he has allowed us to stay here all this time past the Section 21 expiry date -- he has given us leeway so now we should give him some. That's the way he sees it. He also keeps saying we are wasting our time with the council anyway as there is a never-ending waiting list and it doesn't matter if he goes the court route or not as we will never beat the waiting list, but he says it in a calm friendly manner, so as to avoid any tension or arguments. But I am not someone who likes to be pestered like this, and while I can deal with it, I worry about my partners pregnancy and mental state. Indeed, today I looked at my phone and had another 2 missed calls from the estate agents! They left a message saying someone need to come out to survey the property?

 

abc, that's interesting as our landlord also pocketed the deposit himself, and the council have told us the same thing that we can sue him for 3 times the deposit if it went to court. We have an agreement with him regarding that the same as you where we will take the deposit back out of his final rent payment. The guy who is buying the property is buying it himself to live in. He's not planning to rent it out or keep us as tenants as far as I know he wants it himself.

[abc123def]

alpo, speaking for my own LA only, but from what I hear on the net and forums a lot of LA's are doing the same, they no longer house homeless people in their own properties. They have so many people who are homeless, if they offered them LA properties then no one on the queue would get housed ever and they don't feel that is fair. The medical panel only approves people who need housing to save their lives, literally, so someone with a major heart problem who cannot manage stairs, if they did they might have heart failure and die.

 

What they usually do here for homeless people is they rent properties from people and then rent the properties out to the tenants. Some, usually families with young children, get housed in hostels, B&B, shared accommodation (shared kitchens/bathrooms), but families with older children or teenagers tend to go onto this rental scheme. The advantages of renting these privately owned properties through the council are, no rent is ever higher than the LHA so should always be affordable, no deposits are needed and only rent in advance as normal as with the council, and the council maintain the properties to a reasonable standards. But, the owner can end the tenancy after the initial 6 months with notice just like they could privately or through an agency. But if that happens, the LA should offer you alternative housing and do the same again. So, the process continues. I only say that because more and more LA's are not offering homeless people their own properties to rent, they are instead helping them source housing.

 

Also here, no one is ever offered a secure tenancy, instead tenancies are for fixed periods after which a tenant will be reassessed as to whether they need that property (ie not under occupying) or no longer financially need to be in social housing LHA rates and can afford to be in the private rented system, after which they can be asked to leave and sort their own housing out. Security of housing is going to be a thing of the past and the people who are going to be most affected by this is people with MH issues. Wrt this, words fail me.

 

Your homeless officer should give you full information on the policy of your LA and what you are likely to be offered and what you are likely to gain.

 

Interesting about your deposit. That means your LL could come a real cropper in court, no wonder he doesn't want to take you there!

[45002]

Could this thread be moved to Residential and Commercial lettings/Freehold issues

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?65

 

More people in the know post there about landlord and tenancy problems

 

Thank you ....

[mariner51]

IMO the Council worker who said they will re-house you the day the buyer becomes the owner and you return the keys, is giving you dangerous information and should be sacked. AFAIK there is no such Council rule. Once the buyer becomes the owner, he becomes your LL and inherits your current AST with all T&Cs intact.

Neither can current LL seek repo via s21 if he failed to protect deposit, until he returns full deposit and re-issues valid s21, giving you a further 5 months tenure approx.

He could seek mandatory repo in 14-42 days by serving s8 g8. if more than 2 months rent is owing. Council will not rehouse a s8 repo

Offer of social housing can take approx. 3 years

Next week the cost of a s21 repo rises to min £280.

Current LL has messed up with deposit and put his sale at risk and you in a strong negotiating position if you are prepared to vacate voluntarily in 1 month for return of full deposit + 2x deposit and waive your right to sue for deposit non-protection. Thus you may be able to afford suitable private rented accom whilst Council get their act together and you reduce your family stress.

First find suitable private rent. Council will not re-house if you vacate voluntarily

[alpo287]

He didn't say they could re-home us when the buyer becomes the owner. He said they can see about giving us temp accommodation ( a b&b, or a self-contained flat) until a decision is made on our homeless application. However, what I would like to know is if the homeless decision is then not in our favour (i.e we made ourselves intentionally homeless) so they have no duty to help us, where do when then go at that stage for help? I'm assuming the LA would try and help us find a suitable private let? or would we literally be on the streets?

 

Even if I could find a suitable private let, the council would then not help in any way surely as they would say 'Well you don't need council housing now you have your own tenancy sorted out'. This works against us because we have the mental health people and psychiatrists threatening us with social services unless we are in stable, affordable, social housing. We can't keep moving around and signing short term contracts and having the landlord selling the house again. We have just about been able to afford this private let by going without food, gas etc to top up the rent shortfall each month. That's their perspective, and TBH I agree with them. This property has several outstanding repairs, we have had harassment here, my partner is scared to out alone etc. I mean nothing about this property suggests it is worth fighting for and struggling to survive to pay the rent on it. Why would we then swap this to be in the same circumstances again with another private let? However, I have myself been actively looking for other private lets, if anything just to try and help ourselves and not just be reliant on the LA and their seemingly endless processes, but we don't have any cash up front, or money for agency fees. I have shown the landlords how the discretionary payment and what not works in writing from the council, but they are not interested. If you don't have cash up front, they just hand it to the next viewer who does have the deposit.

 

Further, if it takes so long to get social housing, then what is the purpose of bidding on properties? I asked the council this and they said 'we no longer offer properties, you have to bid for your own' so there is no change on the waiting list time, you just bid instead. So what was the point of changing the way they allocate homes if the waiting list is still the same?

 

I know a guy who came back from living in Jamaica for 2 years, went to the LA and said he has nowhere to live basically, he was handed a 2 bed flat within the week (and doesn't even have any dependents, or health issues) I asked him again a couple of weeks ago how he obtained his flat from the council, and he just said he went there and said he has nowhere to live. They took his details, he stayed at his brothers house for a week and they wrote to him with an offer of accommodation. Why is it so easy for some to be homed by the LA, but then others it takes years and years?

[estellyn]

Firstly, the guy whose story you know, sounds false. We were accepted for housing due to serious medical needs and it still took about 7 months before we were housed. And our LA doesn't even have a housing list any more, they only house homeless and medical needs.

 

 

If you got a private let, the LA, if they still maintain a housing list, would let you go on the list. You would bid for properties and if you are the bidder with the most points you get the property. The longer you're on the list, the more points you accrue, plus any additional points for medical needs etc.

 

 

As has been suggested, you may be able to make a deal with the landlord where he makes you a payment to move out promptly - it might be something you can put to him. Explain that you cannot move out to private rented due to lack of funds for a deposit and fees, and that he can't take court action currently as he has not protected your deposit - and this would also transfer to the buyer - he couldn't then take court action against you unless he protects the deposit. This may seriously jeopardise his sale, so it may be in his interest to incentivise your move.

 

 

He hasn't done anything in 'letting' you stay past the end of the section 21 notice period. The law says you cannot be evicted without court action, which he legally cannot take as he has not protected your deposit. It sounds very much as if he is trying to manipulate you and rely on you being ignorant of the law - he has no standing at the moment to evict you and he knows it, but is trying to make it seem as if he is doing you the favour, instead of his hands being tied.

 

 

Regarding private renting, you may be able to negotiate a longer tenancy with some landlords. Void periods are the enemy of the private landlord, and many are very happy to tie someone reliable in to a longer tenancy - say a year or even two. The only issue with that will be if a social housing property becomes available you will have issues with breaking your tenancy agreement. So before going down the longer tenancy road, find out how long, on average, it takes someone on the housing list in your area, with your predicted points, to be housed. This will give you an idea of what length of tenancy will be safe and would at least give you some security.

 

 

As to the responsibilities of the LA if you make yourself intentionally homeless, maybe someone else can jump in on that query.

[45002]

alpo287

 

What you need to do is concentrate on finding some where else to live and not debating pro's and con's housing or why someone from Jamaica was given some where to live !

 

You do not have to leave your current home until Bailiff's come around with a valid possession order.

 

If you vacate voluntarily it's classed as intentionally homeless, you could end up sleeping somewhere out side

[alpo287]

alpo287

 

What you need to do is concentrate on finding some where else to live and not debating pro's and con's housing or why someone from Jamaica was given some where to live !

 

You do not have to leave your current home until Bailiff's come around with a valid possession order.

 

If you vacate voluntarily it's classed as intentionally homeless, you could end up sleeping somewhere out side

 

My friend isn't from Jamaica, he just went out there for a couple of years and then came back. But the point I am making is that people say 'Oh, you'll never get social housing, it can take 30 years' and yet off the top off my head I can think of several people I know personally who have been given social housing with very minimum hassle, even in the last year or so. A single parent goes to the council, says they have been kicked out by their mother and have nowhere to live, and are housed almost straight away. Again, I know around ten examples personally of this in my immediate area.

 

I know they have their policies of only letting out homes to those in the most need, yet according to Shelter, Citizens Advice, Psychiatrists, local MP, midwife, we tick all the boxes for the qualifying needs besides overcrowding. And even the landlord himself keeps repeating this whenever I speak to him 'Why are they making it difficult for you, just tell them you have nowhere to go'. I have explained to him what estellyn said that if it was that simple, you'd have any private tenants that feel like it ditching their keys and turning up at the council offices all over requesting housing. However, because the council have told him personally on more than one occasion that they will be able to re-house us, even AFTER he's explained to them he won't go to court, he keeps asking why they are telling us one thing and him another.

 

I have explained to him over and over and over again that until the court order comes, we are in limbo, but he just keeps insisting that he needs us re-homed or all his property deals threaten to fall through. And he seems to be putting the guilt on us for that. As I said I can deal with him, but it's a worry regarding my partners mental health as she has relapsed once, which impacts on my son, baby etc

[alpo287]

Firstly, the guy whose story you know, sounds false. We were accepted for housing due to serious medical needs and it still took about 7 months before we were housed. And our LA doesn't even have a housing list any more, they only house homeless and medical needs.

 

 

If you got a private let, the LA, if they still maintain a housing list, would let you go on the list. You would bid for properties and if you are the bidder with the most points you get the property. The longer you're on the list, the more points you accrue, plus any additional points for medical needs etc.

 

 

As has been suggested, you may be able to make a deal with the landlord where he makes you a payment to move out promptly - it might be something you can put to him. Explain that you cannot move out to private rented due to lack of funds for a deposit and fees, and that he can't take court action currently as he has not protected your deposit - and this would also transfer to the buyer - he couldn't then take court action against you unless he protects the deposit. This may seriously jeopardise his sale, so it may be in his interest to incentivise your move.

 

 

He hasn't done anything in 'letting' you stay past the end of the section 21 notice period. The law says you cannot be evicted without court action, which he legally cannot take as he has not protected your deposit. It sounds very much as if he is trying to manipulate you and rely on you being ignorant of the law - he has no standing at the moment to evict you and he knows it, but is trying to make it seem as if he is doing you the favour, instead of his hands being tied.

 

 

Regarding private renting, you may be able to negotiate a longer tenancy with some landlords. Void periods are the enemy of the private landlord, and many are very happy to tie someone reliable in to a longer tenancy - say a year or even two. The only issue with that will be if a social housing property becomes available you will have issues with breaking your tenancy agreement. So before going down the longer tenancy road, find out how long, on average, it takes someone on the housing list in your area, with your predicted points, to be housed. This will give you an idea of what length of tenancy will be safe and would at least give you some security.

 

 

As to the responsibilities of the LA if you make yourself intentionally homeless, maybe someone else can jump in on that query.

 

The example of my friend I used is going back a good few years (he has to pay bedroom tax etc now) so it may have changed, but I still know many examples of people, particularly single parents who have been housed by the council with very little stress or hassle. We have been on the housing list for a while now before he even put the property up for the sale, but you receive no points if they deem you to be 'adequately housed'. They also don't consider mental health (being house bound with young children, unable to go out alone due to fear) to get extra health points. So it would be fruitless to take another private let, and stay on housing register as we would still have zero points, even as the years go by they wouldn't add any more than a few points as we would have no priority at all, or indeed, reason for needing to be housed, other than preferring a council home over a private one.

 

Basically the advice we have gotten from her mental health people is that the next move we make needs to be a permanent one where we can settle for the foreseeable future, for schools, hospitals, nurseries, etc and 'make it our home' in their words. With another private let, you just don't get that kind of security, i.e the landlord can come along and say 'I'm putting the rent up 60 quid this month' and what then? Then we have all the hassle of moving again. So the way they, and indeed me, see it is if this is our only chance EVER of getting a social housing tenancy then it is in our interest to at least try every thing possible, rather than diving into another private rental that we can't even afford due to the rent top up. There is not one private let that I have looked at that is anywhere near our LHA rate. There is always an extra top up of about £55 per month each month, which we simply can't afford in current circumstances.

 

I will mention to him about making a payment to move us out promptly next time I speak to him. However, he is perpetually telling me he has no money and is skint etc. About a month ago we looked at another private let, it was a nice house in good condition, good location and everything, although the rent was still a bit high. I informed the landlord about it and told him it's ideal, we just need a deposit and rent in advance up front which we don't have, and his response was 'Why are you looking at properties you can't afford' -- so we can't win either way - and he didn't even offer to give us the deposit back he owes us to put down on that property.

 

That's why none of the outstanding repairs have been done here, as he says he has no money, and the people he has sent out to try and rectify problems have been cowboys, so we have electric sockets hanging out of the wall, damp all over kitchen etc. Now he says he won't complete any repairs as he's selling anyway.

[estellyn]

Have you considered that the landlord may be lying to you about what the council have told him. Unless you have given permission, the council are not allowed to speak to your landlord about you. And even if they spoke hypothetically, any housing person at the council knows that you can't get housed until the full legal process has been gone through.

 

 

The above with the other manipulations your landlord is trying, plus the fact he hasn't protected your deposit, make it likely he is lying to get you out.

 

 

Frankly, your only way to be socially housed is to sit it out in your current property until someone goes through the court process - this WILL lead to you being socially housed as homeless.

 

 

My take is that your landlord is trying to trick you into leaving and making yourself intentionally homeless so he can get his house back with the minimum of cost.

 

 

Maybe a housing person can confirm this for me - is the section 21 notice invalid if the deposit isn't protected? And would this mean in order to go to court, the landlord or new owner would need to protect the deposit, re serve the section 21 and then take court action?

 

 

If this is the case, then alpo287, you haven't even been served with a valid notice and do not need to leave at all - the landlord is not' doing you a favour' as the notice isn't valid and he needs to serve a valid notice.

[alpo287]

He could be lying, but the same day he said the council spoke to him, they actually rang us and spoke to my partner (I was out at the time) and my partner said they were just asking her about our situation, asking if we have any rent arrears on the property, etc then they said they are dealing with our case and will be in touch. So I'm assuming they called him after calling us. I know for a fact they have spoken to him at least once though, as when we went to the offices, the housing officer went into the back and called the landlord there and then to clarify a few things. The housing officer returned and said it was an amicable discussion in which he explained the legal process to the landlord, and the LL countered by saying he has no intention of going to court as we are good tenants and pay the rent on time, and it will cost him a lot of money and inconvenience to go to court. The officer seemed happy with the landlords explanation and left it at that, and we did our homeless interview/application.

 

Regarding the deposit, he has given us half of it back, and we will take the rest of it out of the final rent payment when we eventually leave, which will pay for any removals costs. That's what we agreed with him as he thought that once the S21 expires we have to leave the property. And he just keeps asking me what is the point of the council requesting the S21 if we can carry on staying here way after it expires?

[estellyn]

The point of requesting the section 21 is because there is a process that has to be followed. Once a valid notice runs out, the LL is expected to go to court to forcibly evict. They cannot just forcibly evict on a section 21 alone because there needs to be legal oversight to ensure that tenants aren't illegally evicted.

 

 

As your deposit wasn't protected and the full deposit wasn't returned prior to serving it, then the S21 is invalid and needs to be served again. You need to tell your LL this. You also need to explain, or get the Council to explain to him the legal process that needs to be followed for you to be rehoused, as he appears to have 'gotten the wrong end of the stick' (a polite way of saying, he might be lying or might be confused).

[mariner51]

Okat the LL is being a numpty,You have MP on your case & mental health people in your corner. You cannot be legally evicted without a Court repo order.

Council may be able to provide a 6 month deposit 'bond' for new place and be prepared to pay HB direct to LL from Day 1 for vulnerable T if you can find a LL prepared to accept LHA Ts.

Time to lower your expectations and find a property you can afford, rather than desire. Forget other peoples' successes at beating the system, benefit rules are changing almost daily (for the worse) and each case is decided on circumstances.

There is a lack of social Housing and more prvate LLs are not prepared to consider LHA Ts (even those in work).

All contributing to your stress One homily I remember from childhood - "The world owes you a living, but you have to work hard to collect."

[alpo287]

Council may be able to provide a 6 month deposit 'bond' for new place and be prepared to pay HB direct to LL from Day 1 for vulnerable T if you can find a LL prepared to accept LHA Ts.

 

How do I find out about this? If I just go in and ask about it, chances are they won't know what I am talking about. Does it have a specific name or title that refers to it? When I asked the council to pay direct to landlord for this property they said they no longer do that and it's the tenants responsibility to pay cash to the landlord.

 

This property I'm in now is 500pcm and every month the shortfall in rent between the allowance and what we pay him means we go without stuff like food or gas a majority of the time. Now people say that we should live within our means right? There is not one 2 bed private let in my area that is lower than what I pay now, even in the worst 'ghetto' areas, and yet a 2 bed council flat or house is around 395pcm. This how people get into arrears and a financial mess by taking on properties they can't afford to pay for. I don't want that for my family. If I was in a position where I could work again it might be different, but even then the majority of my wage would go to the landlord with barely anything left for essentials. If the landlords won't decrease the rents, or won't even consider taking LHA tenants even ones that are working, then how can people be expected to live within their means?

 

I reference other situations because it intrigues me. You see these documentaries about 'problem families' (not saying we are one) but you see them being evicted from their houses for being neighbours from hell etc, but you never know what happens to them after. Do they disappear off the face of the earth. No private landlord will take on 'typical benefit families' and there is hardly any social housing so what happens to all these families with kids? I only ever see single males sleeping rough, not once have I seen a family sleeping in the streets.

[estellyn]

This tells you what happens if you are found intentionally homeless:

 

 

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/homelessness/help_from_the_council_when_homeless/intentional_homelessness

 

 

The council is only required to house you temporarily to give you time to find a place - they can ask you to go after 28 days. It would likely be B&B accommodation which is often unpleasant, especially for kids and those with mental health problems.

 

 

Again your only viable options are to either rehouse yourself in private rented, or hold out where you are until court action is eventually taken - at that point you will be eligible for social housing.

[estellyn]

I've been thinking about your situation this evening and it feels like you're expecting some solution that will give you quick access to a social housing place. It doesn't exist. Even those 'housed' quickly, are likely to be housed in temporary accommodation - maybe one room in a B&B until somewhere suitable comes available.

 

 

What you need to do to be housed by the LA in a social housing tenancy:

 

 

Contact your landlord in writing.

 

 

(i) Explain that the section 21 notice is invalid as he hasn't protected the deposit or returned the full deposit to you.

 

 

(ii) Suggest if he get legal advice.

 

 

(iii) Explain he gives you back the rest of the deposit, or protects the rest of the deposit (giving details of the scheme) which allows him then to serve a valid section 21, which then gives you another two months notice.

 

 

(iv) Explain that you've taken advice, and that court action needs to be taken following the section 21 in order for the council to house you.

 

 

(v) Explain that if you leave the property before the council finds you a property, or the court action reaches it's conclusion, that you will be found intentionally homeless and the council will be unable to give you a tenancy.

 

 

(vi) Explain that he can sell the house with you as tenants in situ, and the new owner can continue with the eviction process

 

 

(vii) Reassure him that you are happy to leave but require to be found involuntarily homeless in order to be housed by the council.

 

 

(viii) Explain that further harassment by him or the new owner to leave before court action will result in the harassment being reported to the police. Request that all further communication on the matter of the eviction be in writing/email.

 

 

(ix) Reassure him that you will be happy to arrange suitable appointments for any surveys/visits that are required due to the house sale.

 

 

Does this help at all?

 

 

You should have at least 3-4 months before the notice and court process concludes, ample time for the LA to find you a property

 

 

Does anyone have anything to add to this that might help?

[alpo287]

I've been thinking about your situation this evening and it feels like you're expecting some solution that will give you quick access to a social housing place. It doesn't exist. Even those 'housed' quickly, are likely to be housed in temporary accommodation - maybe one room in a B&B until somewhere suitable comes available.

 

 

What you need to do to be housed by the LA in a social housing tenancy:

 

 

Contact your landlord in writing.

 

 

(i) Explain that the section 21 notice is invalid as he hasn't protected the deposit or returned the full deposit to you.

 

 

(ii) Suggest if he get legal advice.

 

 

(iii) Explain he gives you back the rest of the deposit, or protects the rest of the deposit (giving details of the scheme) which allows him then to serve a valid section 21, which then gives you another two months notice.

 

 

(iv) Explain that you've taken advice, and that court action needs to be taken following the section 21 in order for the council to house you.

 

 

(v) Explain that if you leave the property before the council finds you a property, or the court action reaches it's conclusion, that you will be found intentionally homeless and the council will be unable to give you a tenancy.

 

 

(vi) Explain that he can sell the house with you as tenants in situ, and the new owner can continue with the eviction process

 

 

(vii) Reassure him that you are happy to leave but require to be found involuntarily homeless in order to be housed by the council.

 

 

(viii) Explain that further harassment by him or the new owner to leave before court action will result in the harassment being reported to the police. Request that all further communication on the matter of the eviction be in writing/email.

 

 

(ix) Reassure him that you will be happy to arrange suitable appointments for any surveys/visits that are required due to the house sale.

 

 

Does this help at all?

 

 

You should have at least 3-4 months before the notice and court process concludes, ample time for the LA to find you a property

 

 

Does anyone have anything to add to this that might help?

 

Thanks. I honestly have explained most this stuff to him over and over and over again, but this landlord is the type of person who as soon as you say more than a couple of sentences he gets confused and doesn't bother listening to the rest of it. Your third suggestion for example, as soon as I start to tell him that he kind of huffs and puffs as if it is too much hassle and starts going into rants about how the way the system is set up is a joke and stuff.

 

Do you know then what the purpose of the homeless application we did with the council is? When they say we have to wait 33 days for a decision? Are we just waiting for the 33 days for a decision for no reason? What I mean is that if he won't go to court, won't their decision surely be that they can't help us because he hasn't been through the proper process?

 

I am just a bit puzzled as to what we are waiting 33 days for the council to say. I have no problem waiting it out a bit longer here as long as I know there is potentially some kind of progress at the end of it from the councils end. Even if they can't give us accommodation, will they at least give us the 140 homeless points? Because it feels a bit pointless to wait for a housing case worker to be assigned and wait 33 days just be told what I now already know, and what you guys are already saying here -- that he HAS to go to court. If the council already know this will be the outcome, why would they give us an homeless app interview in the first place. At the end of these 33 days won't they just say the same thing that he has to go to court if he wants us out?

[estellyn]

Hmmm, people should really not become landlords if they can't deal with or understand the law and their responsibilities. Too many see it as an easy way to make cash with minimal input - and then they face the realities of being a landlord and seem surprised.

 

 

If he's confused about the process, and doesn't take in what you say in person, this is why you need to make the communication written only. Put the points to him clearly in the letter, so that he can refer to it and take it to get legal advice if he wants.

 

 

With regards to the council process, I don't know. Each council has different processes where housing and homelessness are concerned, and without knowing their process and procedures, I can't say with certainty what will happen in 33 days. I do know that if you wait it out where you are, you will eventually get the homeless points (as long as the eviction goes ahead) - but all Councils work differently, so I can't tell you what stage it will happen.

 

 

Taking your application is a good sign. It means they are getting ahead of the game and are aware they will need to house you, have spoken to your landlord and got a reference and have all your details and requirements on file. The last LA I dealt with while working would do nothing until the person was literally homeless, they took no details and would just tell the person to present to the council offices on the day they were evicted - as you can see, you are being treated far better than that. Have you googled the process for your Council with regards to homelessness? It might give you an idea what the procedure is.

[mariner51]

The LL has to do nothing, apart from act within the Law.

He does not have to serve s21, jump through Council hoops or assist you in any way to obtain social housing.

Even if you are successful, Council could re-locate you out of area. I believe Brent BC has SH avail in Birmingham. It might inform others if you named your local Authority.

At some stage, LL may be able to serve s8 g8 and get mandatory repo order (rent owing = intentionally homeless) deposit protection not reqd.

 

 

IMO The only way to break this impasse is to sue LL for non-protection of deposit in CC, at own risk/cost. asap, or wait for Council decision on your housing application.