un1boy vs Experian - Default removal

[un1boy]

Well, long story short,

I had an account with company A that went to a DCA

as my house mate when I was student didn't pay me for it until I threatened legal action 6 months later.

I was advised by A that no default would be entered,

after about 5 months the account was settled with the DCA,

I checked Experian and no default was registered.

 

I recently checked Equifax and there is one there, supplied by A.

Now, I have sent A the CCA request and that is in progress.

Before I found the CCA request thread info, I emailed Equifax to dispute the Default.

 

I wrote the following:

 

This default is being disputed as A did not clear

the balance when agreed. I was also told

by their credit control department that a default entry

would not be entered against me!

 

To which Equifax replied:

 

The Client concerned has investigated the accuracy of the information and has asked that you contact their credit control on 0800 052 2620. As our client has not given permission to amend this information it remains unchanged on your credit file.

 

I called A to explain the situation as the DCA did not clear the account when I paid my last payment as they lost it,

so cleared it in feb 06 rather than nov 05!!

A sorted it all for me,

 

I replied to Equifax with this:

 

A have now agreed to my situation.

However, as my contract was ended with them so has my permission for them to process and for you to hold my data.

As this account is no longer in force and the contract has been terminated I request that this information is removed from my file.

 

The reply I got from Equifax was:

 

Credit Agreements are stored and updated as supplied to us by our Clients/Lenders and as such can only be amended by receiving written instructions to do so from the Client/Lender to Equifax.

 

Therefore we are unable to amend the information appearing on your Credit Report.

 

If you feel that the disclosure of this information has been supplied incorrectly, we would suggest you put your complaint in writing and forward it to the Data Protection Registrar. Their address is listed below to enable you to pursue this matter further: -

 

The Office of the Data Protection Commissioner

Wycliffe House

Water Lane

Wilmslow

Cheshire

SK9 5AF

 

We hope the above details are of assistance to you.

 

Kind Regard

 

 

So, I replied:

 

Please can you advise me which act of law, including a full transcript of the sections and paragraphs relevant that says you can only accept amendments of MY data from your clients?

 

And I have just received this from Equifax:

 

We have passed your details on for further investigation. A member of our escalations department will be in contact with you regarding your query shortly.

 

I will keep you guys updated with what happens.

Any advice, comments etc then please feel free

- I am posting this to help people and see what happens, hehe.

Open discussion welcome!

[un1boy]

I have just sent this to Equifax about another account on my file:

 

Hi there,

 

I also require the entry for the Company B account to be removed. In anticipation of your reply that only comapny B can request this, please send me a transcript of the particular acts, section and/or paragraphs of UK law that allow to hold my information without my permission...as the account was closed, my permission to store and process my data ended too.

 

As a seperate data controller, I would like to remind you your obligation under the DPA to only hold relevant data about me with my permission.

 

My permission ended when the contract did.

[un1boy]

Strange email I have just received from Equifax about a dispute I placed with company C a few weeks ago:

 

Thank you for your recent correspondence.

 

We have received no response from the Client in relation to the information under dispute on your credit file. We have therefore, temporarily removed this information from your credit file, you will be notified if we receive an update from the client.

 

Please note that the Notice of Dispute previously loaded to your credit file has been removed.

 

I hope this is of assistance.

I've not heard anything about this and I disputed company C's file a few weeks ago. I have just replied asking if they have removed the whole entry, or just the dispute.

 

The strangest thing is I haven't asked for them to provide me with a transcript of the act of uk law which lets them hold my data. Do you think it's strange?

[un1boy]

Excellent - is this their standard response, or did they remove urs after asking them to quote chapter and verse of the acts of uk law which permit them?!

[un1boy]

Oh right, ok - that's fair I think.

[un1boy]

Don't worry Lizzy - I'm going to see what they come back with in terms of Company A and B first then send Surly letters!!

 

I'll keep you informed!

[un1boy]

[quote=un1boy]Strange email I have just received from Equifax about a dispute I placed with company C a few weeks ago:

 

Thank you for your recent correspondence.

 

We have received no response from the Client in relation to the information under dispute on your credit file. We have therefore, temporarily removed this information from your credit file, you will be notified if we receive an update from the client.

 

 

This is exactly what happened to me when I queried my defaults with Equifax and Experian about a year ago. The defaults were removed until they had heard from Birmingham Midshire. After 30 days BM had still not replied to them so I thought it was done and dusted. About 2 months after my query both CRAs contacted me to say that BM said the entry was correct. The defaults were back on and that was that OR SO I THOUGHT UNTIL I CAME HERE.

 

You really need Surlys letter to be sure they don't go back on.The CRAs believe everything THEIR clients say without proof.

 

Lizzy

 

Which of surly letters do you think would be best?

[un1boy]

Well guys, got this reply back from Equifax today:

 

Thank you for your recent correspondence, details of which have been

passed to me for investigation and resolution.

 

I acknowledge your comments regarding data held on your Equifax Credit

File, and your question concerning which Act of Law relates to the

amendment of this data. As I am sure you are aware, many of the

financial institutions within the UK have agreed to share details of

their customers' credit agreements with each other, and this is made

possible by storing the credit agreements with one or more of the three

credit reference agencies.

 

Although the credit agreements are held by the credit reference agencies,

the owner of the information continues to be the financial institution,

and not the credit reference agency. The credit reference agencies are

unable to amend or delete information, unless they have been advised to

do so directly from the data owner.

 

Therefore, with regards to the Comapny A account which is currently appearing

at the address of xxx a Notice of Dispute was raised on xxx, whereby we requested Comapny A to investigate and confirm the accuracy of the information provided to Equifax.

 

On the xxxx, Comapny A responded and requested that you make contact

with their Credit Control Department in order that they could investigate

this matter further, with your assistance. In view of the further

investigation which was required, Company A did not at this time, request

Equifax to amend or delete this account farom your Credit File.

 

We acknowledge your further comments within your email dated xxxwhereby you advised that Comapny A had since agreed to your

situation. In view of this, we have today raised a second Notice of

Dispute regarding this account, whereby we have asked Company A to advise if the account should now be amended.

 

Although the Notice of Dispute process can take up to 28 days, I will

endeavour to maintain regular contact with Company A in order to expedite a response.

 

To which I am going to reply:

 

Thank you for email dated xxx, I would disagree however that "

Although the credit agreements are held by the credit reference agencies,

the owner of the information continues to be the financial institution,

and not the credit reference agency." As per my rights under the DPA, the owner of the data is actually the data subject (me), hence the reason that comapnies cannot process, store etc our data without the data subject's consent. Our consent is gained via a term in the contract signed by the data controller (financial institution) which is agreed to by our signature. This premission to store, process etc our data is only given whilst the contract with that perticular data controller is in force. Since the contract was cancelled some time ago, both you and Company A are now committing a criminal offence by processing, storing etc my data without my consent.

 

 

Your obligation as a data controller is to make sure that the information you hold about me is obtained legally and always accurate and up to date. You have failed in your obligatin to do this.

 

As you have confirmed that there is now Act of UK parliament giving you the right to process, store etc my data without my permission, I require that you remove the entry within the next 72 hours.

 

If I do not hear anything from you regarding this, I will begin court proceedings against you.

 

I would like to bring to your attention Section 14 of the Data Protection Act.:

 

14. - (1) If a court is satisfied on the application of a data subject that personal data of which the applicant is the subject are inaccurate, the court may order the data controller to rectify, block, erase or destroy those data and any other personal data in respect of which he is the data controller and which contain an expression of opinion which appears to the court to be based on the inaccurate data.

 

14. - (4) If a court is satisfied on the application of a data subject-

(a) that he has suffered damage by reason of any contravention by a data controller of any of the requirements of this Act in respect of any personal data, in circumstances entitling him to compensation under section 13, and

(b) that there is a substantial risk of further contravention in respect of those data in such circumstances, the court may order the rectification, blocking, erasure or destruction of any of those data.

 

____

 

what do you think?

[un1boy]

Well, sent this off to them yesterday, so should really have a reply by Monday!

 

Do you think you could send Surly's long letter with the statutory notice to cease processing data for cleared defaults to other companies, rather than banks - say, telecommunitcation companies like BT, telewest, NTL, T-Mobile, O2, Orange etc?

[un1boy]

Hi Lizzy,

 

Thanks for highlighting the "now" mistake - I noticed it before I sent it actuallly and changed it.

 

Great, I thought that was the template letter - now, should I send that to Company A instead of the CRA?

[un1boy]

Hi Willow, yes, thanks - I'll send it today.

 

Do you have any idea why I am not receiving email updates for new posts on the threads I'm subsribed to? The domain name is in my allowed list with hotmail.

[un1boy]

It seems to happen in certain forums....I never receive notification for posts made in threads I've subscribed to in 'legalities' (here) and 'questions and suggestions'....don't know why.

 

Wxx

 

It's weird though, because I have always got them.

 

Tinkers - yes, it all seems fine. It's really weird. Last time this happened I accidentally blocked the address from my email address. But, I've checked and it's allowed.

 

I think I'll change the email address for a while and see if that's the problem.

 

Haven't had ANY updates at all

[un1boy]

Check this:

 

User CP - Edit Options - Messaging & Notification - Default Thread Subscription

 

This may be set to No Notification.

 

Yep, it's set right. How strange.

[un1boy]

I've just noticed that I am a gold account member - I was classic the other day, lol. How has that happened and what does it mean?

[un1boy]

Thanks Tink.

 

Oh, by the way guys - thanks for help trying to get my email notifications sorted. I had the webmaster blocked, by accident!! :-/ how embarassing, lol.

 

Anyway, back to the issue in hand.

 

I've not heard anything from the CRA's in terms of removing the default, should I now just send Surly's letter to Company A, or proceed with legal actiona against Equifax?

[un1boy]

Thanks Lizzy, think I'll just send the company surly's letter, hehe.

 

Check your email account's blocked senders - make sure that webmaster@consumeractiongroup.co.uk is not in the list. If it is, remove it and your notifications will come back to you!!

 

Let me know how you get on!

[un1boy]

That's great lizzy, so long as you got it sorted!

[un1boy]

Well, the CRA's have been VERY quiet - I've sent Surly's letter!!

[un1boy]

This was the problem un1boy. Still not little box at right hand side of message though. I miss that.

Got loads of emails today after jj was online, phew.

 

What little box are you talking about?

 

I'm having the same problem again!

[un1boy]

Surly - I got this reply from Experian in response to asking them for free quarterly updates:

______________________

Thank you for your recent email. I trust you are now in receipt of our letter dated 22 September 2006. I attach a copy for your attention.

Dear Un1boy

Thank you for your letter dated 2 September 2006, which has been brought to my attention in the Directors' Office.

I acknowledge your comments stating that ‘as per my rights under the Data Protection Act 1998 that I require that you send me quarterly updates of the information you hold about me'.

 

As I do not believe this is a specific requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998 (Data Protection Act), I would ask you to quote the specific section of the Data Protection Act to which you refer.

 

I do not believe there is any such requirement within the Data Protection Act for us to provide you with a free, regular summary of the type of data we hold about you, the reasons why we hold it, a list of who is supplying that data and a list of every staff member within Experian who has accessed, added, modified, deleted, printed or disclosed your data.

 

Consequently, we will not be complying with your request until such time that you can provide us with details of the specific legislation and we can then look into this matter further.

If you wish to confirm that we are still maintaining our Data Protection Licence and the categories of data we are licensed to hold, this can be obtained from the Information Commissioners web-site: ICO – Information Commissioner's Office

 

Yours sincerely

Mr L J Hancock

Consumer Compliance Executive

Directors' Office

_________________

How sad are they? I asked for a copy of the exact sections regarding my defaults and now they ask me for this, sad sad sad!

[un1boy]

I replied with this:

 

Hello,

 

No, I have not received your letter dated 22nd September yet. I am sure it will be on my doorstep tonight though. I am surprised, that as a data controller you are unaware of your obligations under the DPA, but, as requested I will forward on the exact sections of the DPA which are relevant (even though were mentioned in the letter I sent you, dated 2nd September 2006). I am surprised that you cannot read the DPA yourself, guided by the sections I added in my letter.

 

I require a reply to the email I sent you re: my default removals, to which you have STILL failed to supply me with the exact paragraphs and sections of the relevant acts which give you a legal right to hold my information after the contract has ended.

 

Please can you comply with my original requests. If you have lost them, let me know and I will forward them back to you.

 

Thank you.

[un1boy]

Surly - thank you!!!!

 

No, am I doing this because I actually want to know! I'm not petty to just annoy them!!

 

Thanks again mate - I owe you so many, lol.

[un1boy]

Hiya,

 

Just had this from a guy called Lee Hancock:

__

 

Thank you for your e-mail received 25 September 2006, which has been brought to my attention in the Directors' Office.

 

We are fully aware of our obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998. I would draw your attention to Section 7(2)(b) of the said Act:

 

(2) A data controller is not obliged to supply any information under subsection (1) unless he has received-

(a) a request in writing, and

(b) except in prescribed cases, such fee (not exceeding the prescribed maximum) as he may require.

 

The statutory fee for a copy of your credit reference report is £2, the fee for a Data Subject Access Request, which is all the information Experian as a business may hold in your name, is £10. As I previously stated I do not believe there is any such requirement within the Data Protection Act for us to provide you with a free, regular summary of the type of data we hold about you.

 

In your original letter to us this request was made without reference to a particular section of the Data Protection Act 1998. Your subsequent requests regarding the information you required did make reference to specific sections, but not your request for a free quarterly copy of the information.

 

With regards to the other points in your letter, Section 1 of the Data Protection Act 1998 sets out the basic interpretative provisions and definitions of the terminology included within the Act. It does not require us to actually do anything.

 

Section's 17 and 20 of the Data Protection Act 1998 state:

 

17. - (1) Subject to the following provisions of this section, personal data must not be processed unless an entry in respect of the data controller is included in the register maintained by the Commissioner under section 19 (or is treated by notification regulations made by virtue of section 19(3) as being so included).

 

20. - (1) For the purpose specified in subsection (2), notification regulations shall include provision imposing on every person in respect of whom an entry as a data controller is for the time being included in the register maintained under section 19 a duty to notify to the Commissioner, in such circumstances and at such time or times and in such form as may be prescribed, such matters relating to the registrable particulars and measures taken as mentioned in section 18(2)(b) as may be prescribed.

 

With regards to these requests I referred you to the Information Commissioners web-site as this provides an up to date list of the required information. You will also note that Section 20 states we have a duty to notify the Commissioner.

 

Section 55 of the Data Protection Act 1998 states:

 

55. - (1) A person must not knowingly or recklessly, without the consent of the data controller-

(a) obtain or disclose personal data or the information contained in personal data, or

(b) procure the disclosure to another person of the information contained in personal data.

 

A copy of the information we hold, obtained under Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998 will disclose the details of any companies that have viewed the information.

 

I am unable to locate any requirement within the Data Protection Act 1998 for us to provide you with the names of every staff member within Experian who has accessed, added, modified, deleted, printed or disclosed any of your data including dates, times and reasons. Your request for this information also did not reference any particular section of the Act.

 

I am also unable to locate any e-mail from you relating to default removals. However, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 your right to query the information we hold about you is not invoked until you have received a copy of your report under Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

If you have any further queries, please feel free to contact me directly either by e-mail at lee.hancock@uk.experian.com, by telephone on 0115 9055453 or by writing to me at the following address:

 

Directors' Office, Experian Ltd, PO Box 8000, Nottingham, NG80 7WF

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

Mr L J Hancock

Consumer Compliance Executive

Directors' Office

 

This e-mail has come from Experian, winner of the UK's 'Business of the Year' 2003 and 2005.

 

Find out about The Experian Conference 2006, 16-17 October, at Redirect | Experian UK

______-

 

 

My original letter did make reference to particular sections, except for the staff bit.

 

It would be interesting to hear your views on this Surly?

[un1boy]

Part II - Rights of Data Subjects and Others:

 

Right of access to personal data.

7. - (1) Subject to the following provisions of this section and to sections 8 and 9, an individual is entitled-

 

(a) to be informed by any data controller whether personal data of which that individual is the data subject are being processed by or on behalf of that data controller,

(b) if that is the case, to be given by the data controller a description of-

(i) the personal data of which that individual is the data subject,

(ii) the purposes for which they are being or are to be processed, and

(iii) the recipients or classes of recipients to whom they are or may be disclosed,

© to have communicated to him in an intelligible form-

(i) the information constituting any personal data of which that individual is the data subject, and

(ii) any information available to the data controller as to the source of those data, and

(d) where the processing by automatic means of personal data of which that individual is the data subject for the purpose of evaluating matters relating to him such as, for example, his performance at work, his creditworthiness, his reliability or his conduct, has constituted or is likely to constitute the sole basis for any decision significantly affecting him, to be informed by the data controller of the logic involved in that decision-taking.

...

(7) An individual making a request under this section may, in such cases as may be prescribed, specify that his request is limited to personal data of any prescribed description.

 

QED

 

However, are you doing this just to antagonise them for the sake of it, or do you genuinely want to know?

 

I would suggest that most people's primary aims are to get the defaults removed and then move on... if we act in a manner as petty as the CRAs, then we destroy our own credibility.

 

Well, I've bene thinking and although I do want this info it's more important that I focus on getting my defaults removed at the moment, so that's what I'm goona do!

 

Company A received my stat notice 21/09/2006 - I haven't heard anything from them yet. Any ideas?

[un1boy]

Do you know what Tobes? I've just realised that that was a silly question, lol.

 

I'm sorry - my head has been so mashed lately.

 

Cheers for the advice though!