advance warning - bus only street

[athisok]

hi - ive heard that if a road is bus only there should be advance warning. What are the rules regarding this?

 

I was driving down corporation street in birmingham approaching an island with three exits. The first and third exits were bus only - and straight ahead was no entry

 

So corporation street is basically a dead end for cars - but there is no warning signs to indicate this in advance of the island. the only bus lane signs are those on the roads off of the island. Is this adeqate signage?

 

Spoke to someone at the council and they said corporation st is a pedestrian only zone anyway. Checked google streetview and there were signs up at the start of corporation street, but they are no longer there

 

Thanks for any help that is forhcoming

 

 

d

[renegadeimp]

Google maps clearly shows bus's wagons and cars around that area. Has it changed since 2012?

[renegadeimp]

Ignore that. GOogle maps says it was updated this year.

[athisok]

Thxnks ren

 

The signs at start of corporation st definately not there now

[athisok]

hi - ive heard that if a road is bus only there should be advance warning. What are the rules regarding this?

 

I was driving down corporation street in birmingham approaching an island with three exits. The first and third exits were bus only - and straight ahead was no entrySo corporation street is basically a dead end for cars - but there is no warning signs to indicate this in advance of the island.

 

the only bus lane signs are those on the roads off of the island. Is this adeqate signage?

 

Spoke to someone at the council and they said corporation st is a pedestrian only zone anyway. Checked google streetview and there were signs up at the start of corporation street, but they are no longer there

 

Thanks for any help that is forhcoming

[sailor sam]

Street view could be out of date so it will difficult to give you a definitive answer unless you have up to date pic which you can post.

 

If the street is a pedestrian zone, it probably would not require advance signs as there should not be any traffic driving through there anyway. However, if normal traffic is permitted down there at certain times then yes, there should be advanced warning signs of an impending restriction before the junction (or in this case, traffic island) informing the driver of the restriction(s) to each exit after the island ahead plus showing the alternative route that the driver can take to escape the bus lane(s).

 

If there is no such advanced signage, it is highly likely that any PCN issued could be appealed on the grounds of inadequate signage warning of the contravention.

 

Do I take it that you have been issued with a PCN... if so, was it via CCTV enforcement?

 

Please Note

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[sailor sam]

You have created another thread on this which will cause confusion. I'll ask the site team to merge them.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[citizenB]

Threads merged as requested. Please stick to one thread per subject.

[athisok]

Street view could be out of date so it will difficult to give you a definitive answer unless you have up to date pic which you can post.

 

If the street is a pedestrian zone, it probably would not require advance signs as there should not be any traffic driving through there anyway. However, if normal traffic is permitted down there at certain times then yes, there should be advanced warning signs of an impending restriction before the junction (or in this case, traffic island) informing the driver of the restriction(s) to each exit after the island ahead plus showing the alternative route that the driver can take to escape the bus lane(s).

 

If there is no such advanced signage, it is highly likely that any PCN issued could be appealed on the grounds of inadequate signage warning of the contravention.

 

Do I take it that you have been issued with a PCN... if so, was it via CCTV enforcement?

 

Please Note

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

 

Thanks sailer. That is good news. But if I may also ask where I would find that rule about advance warning signs. Ive looked at the Traffic signs manual chapter 3 page 141, which shows an image of a bus only warning sign but cant see anywhere that states thus sign is mandatory. Is the fact there is a diagram (ie bottom left pg 141) enough to indicate it is mandatory

 

Also when I appeal do I need to mention which section or subsection of any rule I think has not been adhered to. Or is it enough to just say I believe there are rules about advance warning signs that have been broken

 

Thanks again for your help

[athisok]

Thanks for merging. Put original post in motoring section, then found this section which I thought would be more appropriate

[athisok]

Do I take it that you have been issued with a PCN... if so, was it via CCTV enforcement?

 

 

Yes was issued with pcn (well 2 pcns) on priory queensway in birmingham which has trapped about 11000 in eleven weeks

 

Not sure if it was cctv though. I assume it was as there is video footage of me driving on that road and the pcn contains 3 images.

[Raykay]

Also when I appeal do I need to mention which section or subsection of any rule I think has not been adhered to. Or is it enough to just say I believe there are rules about advance warning signs that have been broken

 

 

The Traffic Signs manual has signs that must be used - which are mandatory, and signs that should be used and may be used - which are not mandatory.

 

 

There is no reference number, or mention in the text about the advance warning sign on page 141.

Only mention it in your appeal if you find a section or sub-section that makes it mandatory.

[athisok]

The Traffic Signs manual has signs that must be used - which are mandatory, and signs that should be used and may be used - which are not mandatory.

 

 

There is no reference number, or mention in the text about the advance warning sign on page 141.

Only mention it in your appeal if you find a section or sub-section that makes it mandatory.

 

Thanks ray. If that sign is not manditory i dont see how there will be any grounds on which to appeal

[Raykay]

Appeal on other points or reasons you think are relevant, but don't mention that you believe that a rule has not been adhered to if you don't find one. If you did, and there isn't one, it may reduce your credibility for the other points of your appeal.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Raykay

[athisok]

Appeal on other points or reasons you think are relevant, but don't mention that you believe that a rule has not been adhered to if you don't find one. If you did, and there isn't one, it may reduce your credibility for the other points of your appeal.

 

Dont think the are any other points

[athisok]

This is from the introduction to the traffic signs manual

 

 

GENERAL

1.1 The Traffic Signs Manual is intended to give advice to traffic authorities and their agents on the correct use of signs and road markings. Mandatory requirements are set out in the current version of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions; nothing in the Manual can override these. The advice is given to assist authorities in the discharge of their duties under section 122 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 and Part 2 of the Traffic Management Act 2004. Subject always to compliance with the Directions, which, except in Northern Ireland, are mandatory (see para 1.4), it is for traffic authorities to determine what signing is necessary to meet those duties,

 

The following seems to offer some hope though

 

although failure to follow the Manual's guidance without good reason might well lead to enforcement difficulties. In particular, adjudicators might consider such failure to be evidence that the signing was unclear. Traffic authorities should always remember that the purpose of regulatory signs is to ensure that drivers clearly understand what restrictions or prohibitions are in force.

[rds60h]

There is a lot in the press about this new camera system which is apparently issuing over 800 PCNs a week and is supposed to be under challenge in reference to advance warning of the bus lanes. A google search about the bus lanes in this area should give more details.

[athisok]

There is a lot in the press about this new camera system which is apparently issuing over 800 PCNs a week and is supposed to be under challenge in reference to advance warning of the bus lanes. A google search about the bus lanes in this area should give more details.

 

Thanks. Yes I was aware massive amounts of people been caught out, but dont think this will make any difference to the appeal panel. There is also more than one route onto priory queesway and dont know if all the fuss is with regards to what route I took to get on there

 

 

When you say under challenge, do you mean challenge by individual drivers or a more organised group of people?

Edited December 8, 2013 by athisok

[sailor sam]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-26464354