kirsty v woolwich

[kirsty22]

This isnt my first time on here, but the start of a thread.

Sent my first request letter,from the template library to woolwich on the 4th september, barclays replied on 18th October with a letter basically saying they disagree my view and that they are unwilling to refund the charges, and if i am disatisfied to refer to the financial ombudsmen. No partial refund or anything mentioned.

I need help now as i am not quite sure what step to do now, shall i send a letter before action letter or start a claim against them.

Am also claiming against halifax who have offered partial refund as final offer am sending my moneyclaim form off tonight.

Please Help!!!

[frankthecabbie]

The advice i was givern at the same stage as you was just stick to the timetable . I think that if it goes to court you have to have givern them every chance to settle

[kirsty22]

what did you do send a letter before action. how is your claim going, what stage r u at?

[frankthecabbie]

I waited until the time limit was up from the prelim letter and then sent the letter before action .I then waited until that time limit was up .Today I put in the N1 form at court .

[kirsty22]

ok will do that, thanks for your time and help

[frankthecabbie]

If you need help just ask .Its a huge learning curve and a bit scary . If I can help I will , If I don't know I will say so

[closey]

Also read back through the FAQ's. Everything you need to know is there. Ensure that you stick to the tried and tested method.

[kirsty22]

The 14 days is up now since I sent the LBA letter so have just filed my moneyclaim form against them for £1061. Lets wait and see what happens. Just won my case against Halifax for £318 so stick at it everyone.

[paddym]

good luck Kirsty !

[kirsty22]

So far i have 2 other claims that have been settled in full, this one however is for my partner on a closed account, and i have not come this far before, so a bit stuck. Have done all the template letters my moneyclaim particulars stated.

1. The Claimant has an account xxxxxx with the Defendant, opened prior 2000

2.Since 14/08/00 the Defendant debited charges and interest in respect of purported breaches of contract. 3.Defendant is aware of all details as a list of charges has already been supplied. Another copy will be sent. 4.Claimant contends:

a)The charges exceed the Defendant's losses caused by the breaches; (b)Term permitting the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and at Common Law.

5.Claimant claims: a) return of the amounts debited of £717.00; (b) Interest per S.69

County Courts Act 1984 of 8% - of £264.35 continuing at the same rate of 8% up to the judgment date or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.15p; 6. Alternatively, if the

charges are a fee for a service, then they must be reasonable under S.15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982. 7.Costs allowed by the Court.

The first part of their defence states

1. The particulars of claim do not provide details or particulars of teh precise charges alleged to have been unlawful, or the date thereof. To the extent it is alleged that the claimant incurred bank charges on his account for unauthorised borrowings (whether unpaid fees for returned cheques, paid referral fees or any such other fees, the defendent puts the claimant to strict proof of each charge and the date thereof.

 

This sounds to me like they want proof of each charge i am claiming ie schedule of charges which im pretty sure i sent. If i did forget though should i write a letter to woolwich and attach another schedule of charges. Is there a template letter? i have an allocation questionaire to fill out(n149) and send to local court and i will include a schedule of charges with this.

Im not sure what to write in the other information box, information i consider that will help the judge to manage or clarify the claim, including information that should be supplied by the other party. Shall i put in here that i require a breakdown of what it costs the bank for unpaid direct debits etc

 

The other parts of defence were basic, they can charge me for unauthorised borrowing blah blah blah

 

Any help will be very gratefully recieved thanks

[Michael Browne]

In Section G: (Read and amend to suit)

 

1.You can request Standard Disclosure

 

I am respectfully requesting that my claim be allocated to the small claims track. This issue is not a complicated one; it is an issue of fact and not of law. The issue is only whether the money levied by the Defendant in respect of its customer’s contractual breaches exceed their actual costs incurred. I am happy to pay their actual costs and I am surprised the Defendant did not counterclaim for these, because I would have paid them without argument.

 

However, the continuing problem is, (in common with the 100s of other cases currently being brought by other bank customers), that the banks refuse to reveal the details of their penalty-charging regime. As the banks have a fiduciary duty towards their customers, they have a duty to deal straightforwardly and in utmost good faith.

 

Accordingly, I would respectfully ask that the court in this case, not withstanding allocation to the small claims track, order standard disclosure. I understand that it is in the courts discretion to do so. This would bring a rapid end, not only to this litigation, but would also likely bring an end to much of the litigation in progress against other high-street banks.

 

2 Refute their contention that POC's are lacking

The defendant in its defence contends that this claim is not suitably particularised and the statement of claim is “embarrassing” and shows no reasonable grounds for the claim to be brought. The Claimant disagrees with this contention entirely. The claims particulars clearly state the statutory and common law provisions on which this claim relies, and the claimant will of course elaborate upon the claim particulars at such time as is required upon the direction of the court. Further, contrary to the contention of the defendant, the relevant numbers of the account in question were clearly identified in the claimant’s particulars of claim, and a full schedule of the charges which form the sum claimed from the defendant was sent to Northampton bulk court on the day of issue for inclusion alongside the claims particulars. Additionally, the defendant was served with this information on two occasions previously within a 28 day period allowed by the claimant to attempt to resolve the issue prior to the commencement of this litigation. For the sake of expediency, I have attached another copy of the schedule to this allocation questionnaire.

 

3. Requset a Directions Order.See here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/53570-new-strategy-allocation-questionaires.html

[kirsty22]

Im not sure which way is best. If i go for the new strategy way the template letter Draft order for directions do i put this in the other information box or do i attach this letter to the form and then what do i put in the box?? sorry really confused.

[kirsty22]

Just read it through again can i put all three points in the other information box. Obviously on continued paper as the box is quite small.

[Michael Browne]

Just read it through again can i put all three points in the other information box. Obviously on continued paper as the box is quite small.

Yes.

[kirsty22]

Please i need some serious help with this one, for some reason it has not gone the way of my other claims and i fear it will be struck out if i dont get this section right. Received letter from my court this is what it says.

 

Before District Judge xxx sitting at xxx county court xxxxx.

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

1. The claim be stayed as it makes no serious attempt to comply with CPR 16.4(1) by setting out a concise statement of the facts. (Stylised particulars do not constitute compliance).

 

The claimant must amend or subsititute its particulars of claim setting out the Claimants case in plain english by 26th January 2007 and in default, the claim be stuck out without further notice.

 

If the obove order is complied with the Defendent has permission to file and serve an amended defence in accordance with CPR 16.5 setting out its case in plain English.

 

2. This order was made without a hearing. Any party affected by it may apply within 7 days of service for it to be set aside, varied or stayed.

 

 

I understand i have got to write the particulars of claim again but what do i need to put in. The template of particulars is obviously no good at this stage.

Thanks everyone

[kirsty22]

Please someone i really need some help and advice with this letter i recieved from my local court, it says

 

 

The judge has considered the statements of case and allocation questionaires submitted in this claim and has decided that a hearing is necessary before a final decision about allocation is made.

 

The judge orders you to attend at 1000 on the 21st of march.

 

The reason for the hearing is as follows

 

The issues raised cause this claim to be unsuitable for small claims track. The court anticipate allocating to fast track.

 

The hearing will be a telephone hearing. The parties must follow the Practice Direction to CRP23 at paragraph 6. If parties cannot agree as to who is responsible under the Practice Direction for making arrangements with BT(or other supplier) arrangements mus be made by the claimant. The applicant of claimant must file no later than 4.00pm on the last working day before the hearing a case summary not exceeding 500 words and draft directions agreed if possible, together with copies of any documents necessary for the hearing not already on court file.

 

 

A few questions, why fast claim track?

what is Practice direction etc

Im not sure what i have to send to them or put in case summary or draft directions.

I cant afford to pay out any more court costs

 

HELP PLEASE

[kirsty22]

Still need some information anyone please.

[sparklydayz]

I suggest you pm one of the moderators about this. Don`t worry, it may be just so the Woolwich are forced into a disclosure or pay up situation.

[GaryH]

Ok, what did you do about amending your POC in the end?

 

And what did you put in section G of the AQ?

 

How much is the claim for?

[kirsty22]

Thanks for answering Gary. My amended POC was in a letter as follows

 

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

 

The Claimant had an account xxxxxx with the Defendant which was opened prior September 2000 and closed around 2004.

During this period in which the Account was operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on these charges once applied. A full list of the charges applied to the account are attached to these particulars of claim.

The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

The Claimant contends that:

 

a) The charges debited to the Account are a disproportionate penalty and are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant, so therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. The costs I have incurred in respect of any breaches of contract exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant. These charges are not intended to represent or be related to any alleged actual loss, but instead enrich the Defendant which then test the contractual term in respect, that the charges applied are for profit.

 

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the common law.

Accordingly the Claimant claims:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges between the dates of 14th August 2000 and 31st December 2002, all charges are shown on the enclosed schedule of charges. The total is £510 plus £207 the defendant charged me in overdraft interest. Giving a total of £717.

 

b) Court costs, currently at £80

 

c) Interest pursuant to S.69 County Courts Act 1984 as set out on the attached list of charges, from the date of issue to the date of judgement/settlement, currently £274.44 and continuing at £00.15 per day OR at such rate as the court deems fair.

 

Alternatively, if the charges are a fee for a service, then they must be reasonable under S.15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act (1982). The defendant has declined justifying the charges, by not providing me with a full breakdown of the costs they have incurred as a result of my breaches, despite repeated requests.

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true

Charges £510

Overdraft Interest £207

Interest under s.69 County Courts Act 1984 £274.44

Court Fee £80

 

TOTAL £ 1071.44

Plus interest pursuant to S.69 County Courts Act 1984 as set out on the attached list of charges, from the date of issue to the date of judgement/settlement at £00.15 per day OR at such rate as the court deems fair.

 

SECTION G OF MY AQ WAS

 

• This issue is not a complicated one; it is an issue of fact and not of law. The issue is only whether the money levied by the Defendant in respect of its customer’s contractual breaches exceed their actual costs incurred. I am happy to pay their actual costs and I am surprised the Defendant did not counterclaim for these, because I would have paid them without argument.
  However, the continuing problem is, (in common with the 100s of other cases currently being brought by other bank customers), that the banks refuse to reveal the details of their penalty-charging regime. As the banks have a fiduciary duty towards their customers, they have a duty to deal straightforwardly and in utmost good faith.
  Accordingly, I would respectfully ask that the court in this case, not withstanding allocation to the small claims track, order standard disclosure. I understand that it is in the courts discretion to do so. This would bring a rapid end, not only to this litigation, but would also likely bring an end to much of the litigation in progress against other high-street banks.

• The defendant in its defence contends that the particulars of the claim do not provide details of the precise charges alleged to be unlawful. The Claimant disagrees with this contention entirely. The claims particulars clearly state the statutory and common law provisions on which this claim relies, and the claimant will of course elaborate upon the claim particulars at such time as is required upon the direction of the court. Further, contrary to the contention of the defendant, the relevant numbers of the account in question were clearly identified in the claimant’s particulars of claim, and a full schedule of the charges which form the sum claimed from the defendant was sent to Northampton bulk court on the day of issue for inclusion alongside the claims particulars. Additionally, the defendant was served with this information on two occasions previously within a 28 day period allowed by the claimant to attempt to resolve the issue prior to the commencement of this litigation. For the sake of expediency, I have attached another copy of the schedule to this allocation questionnaire.

I believe the case will last no longer than 1 hour.

3. Please find attached a draft order containing proposed directions for the courts due consideration.

The amount i am claiming is just over £1000 including 8%, so i am not sure why it is going to fast track. The only other thing that might be causing a problem is that the first charge i am claiming back is for 14/08/2000 which i over 6 years ago now but wasnt when i started claiming, is this affecting it ????

Thanks for any advice and help.

[GaryH]

Ok, thanks. I've got some free time tommorow so I'll sit down and see if I can figure out the best way forward. The court seem very harsh to be honest - which one is it, just out of interest?

[kirsty22]

Its the Hitchin county court in Hertfordshire.

[kirsty22]

I decided after reading another thread, that maybe i should ring barclays and talk to the person dealing with the case and if they would like to settle out of court. I done this on friday, and on saturday there was a letter in the post offering the full amount to settle the claim, £1061, as it was not worth the costs for them to go to court blah blah blah.

So this is excellent outcome, and i would suggest that anyone else in a similar situation should try the approach of ringing before the court date and offering to settle.

Thanks everyone for you continuous help and support.

[GaryH]

Thats excellent Kirsty, well done!

 

Please remember to write to the court and withdraw the claim - this is important. Theres a letter here you can use if you like - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/58011-sc-m-court-bundle.html#post487345