Carter litigation proceeding on behalf of thames water.

[Mike_hawk]

should I call thames water and ask about making some payments towards this years bill now?

 

I think that would be sensible

 

As for the case........

 

2011 - 2012: £500.55 [7 months]

 

2012 - 2013: £402.80

 

Less payments of £50.00 gives a balance of £853.35

 

Current 2013-2014 : £286.60

 

I think you should have acted sooner and followed its complaints procedure in disputing the earlier bills.

 

I don't believe you'll win any admiring glances from the judge if you defend this in full.

 

What effect would a ccj have on your employment etc?

[kay000]

I think that would be sensible

 

As for the case........

 

2011 - 2012: £500.55 [7 months]

 

2012 - 2013: £402.80

 

Less payments of £50.00 gives a balance of £853.35

 

Current 2013-2014 : £286.60

 

I think you should have acted sooner and followed its complaints procedure in disputing the earlier bills.

 

I don't believe you'll win any admiring glances from the judge if you defend this in full.

 

What effect would a ccj have on your employment etc?

 

Okay...what can I do at this my eleventh hour, any ideas pls ,. should I just go ahead and defend it in part as is realistic?

Have i done the wrong thing in filling that I am defending in full, will this have any effect on my employment??

[kay000]

In my Acknowledgement of service I filled intention to defend all of the claim will this be a problem if I now make a part defence?

[Mike_hawk]

Nope, you can change your position at filing of defence. Bear in mind a partial admission will result in a judgment against you, the decision is yours.

 

Employment, only really an issue if you're employed in the financial sector

 

I don't believe it would do your case any harm to state that you believe the current rateable value to be accurate but you dispute the previous years, putting the claimant to proof of how it has calculated those sums. If you have a record of the dispute and a record of its rejecting any engagement with you prior to service of the claim it would assist. You should also include the date you took tenancy of the property and undertook responsibility for service charges.

 

It really hasn't helped that you've only paid circa £50.00 over such an extended period.

 

Based on this year's charges, the previous years would logically have totalled in the region of £454.00, less the £50.00 paid

 

Ignore the figure above, missed the rated waste water value [£116.20 x £00.4435] = £51.54

 

Gives a 2013-2014 total £338.14

 

Based on that figure the previous years [2011-2013] should total in the region of £535.38 less the £50.00 paid

Edited November 18, 2013 by Mike_hawk

[kay000]

Nope, you can change your position at filing of defence. Bear in mind a partial admission will result in a judgment against you, the decision is yours.

 

Employment, only really an issue if you're employed in the financial sector

 

I don't believe it would do your case any harm to state that you believe the current rateable value to be accurate but you dispute the previous years, putting the claimant to proof of how it has calculated those sums. If you have a record of the dispute and a record of its rejecting any engagement with you prior to service of the claim it would assist. You should also include the date you took tenancy of the property and undertook responsibility for service charges.

 

It really hasn't helped that you've only paid circa £50.00 over such an extended period.

 

Based on this year's charges, the previous years would logically have totalled in the region of £454.00, less the £50.00 paid

 

Ignore the figure above, missed the rated waste water value [£116.20 x £00.4435] = £51.54

 

 

Gives a 2013-2014 total £338.14

 

Based on that figure the previous years [2011-2013] should total in the region of £535.38 less the £50.00 paid

 

 

Ok,.I think i'll just take a shot in the dark and defend all the claim based on current bill.Pls. what is the legal term for not giving me enough information on how they arrived at the value like they have done in the current bill?

[Mike_hawk]

Given more time you could probably find the instrument which identifies the information it should provide within its billing.

 

Perhaps, given the lack of time, try fudging the 'proof' element from one of Andy's CCA type defences... 'fudged' example below

 

Paragraph ?? is denied with regards to the Defendant owing the stated quantum to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a) show how the quantum has been calculated; and

(b) show how it has correctly applied the rateable value established by the District valuation office

© show how the claimant has complied with OFWAT price limits.

[kay000]

Given more time you could probably find the instrument which identifies the information it should provide within its billing.

 

Perhaps, given the lack of time, try fudging the 'proof' element from one of Andy's CCA type defences... 'fudged' example below

 

Paragraph ?? is denied with regards to the Defendant owing the stated quantum to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a) show how the quantum has been calculated; and

(b) show how it has correctly applied the rateable value established by the District valuation office

 

© show how the claimant has complied with OFWAT price limits.

 

ok thanks

[Mike_hawk]

Just ensure you respond honestly to the claim.... if any of this isn't accurate or you can't substantiate it if pressed don't include it

 

1. Paragraph 1 is denied with regards to the Defendant being indebted to the Claimant in the quantum claimed

 

2. The defendant entered into tenancy of the service address at ............ date

 

3. The claimants records show a debit balance in the sum of £500.55 for the period claimed

 

4. Based upon the rateable value of property and pricing limits for the period the Defendant disputed the incorrect billing at first demand.

 

5. No accurate billing for the period 2011-2012 was served on the Defendant and the claimant declined to engage in any correspondence to establish the accuracy of its demand or provide a breakdown of its charges.

 

6. The Defendant believes that the current rateable values apply, those values do not appear to reconcile within the claimants demands or stated case

(a) Supply: Chargeable value £262.00

(b)Waste water services: Chargeable value £116.20

 

7. Paragraph 1 is denied with regards to the Defendant owing the stated quantum to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a) show how the quantum has been calculated; and

(b) show how it has correctly applied the rateable value established by the District valuation office; and

© show how the claimant has complied with OFWAT price limits.

 

8. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed;

 

9. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed.

[AndyOrch]

Nice one Mike

 

 

Get that submitted Kay if not already.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[kay000]

Nice one Mike

 

 

Get that submitted Kay if not already.

 

Regards

 

Andy

I can only describe you lot as angels! Thank you so much

[Mike_hawk]

Bit of a way to go yet but it'll slow the process down for a while.

 

Shout when you receive any updates. Use the time to take a good look on here at possible compromise or mediation so you are prepared if/when the opportunity arises.

 

Not sure that I'd want it to progress to trial even on the small claims track on the basis of your defence, far better to find a suitable remedy with corrected charges for both periods [2011 & 2012] and a manageable repayment schedule without a judgment or costs.

 

Aaaaand....don't forget to get back on track with your current bill.

[kay000]

Bit of a way to go yet but it'll slow the process down for a while.

 

Shout when you receive any updates. Use the time to take a good look on here at possible compromise or mediation so you are prepared if/when the opportunity arises.

 

Not sure that I'd want it to progress to trial even on the small claims track on the basis of your defence, far better to find a suitable remedy with corrected charges for both periods [2011 & 2012] and a manageable repayment schedule without a judgment or costs.

 

Aaaaand....don't forget to get back on track with your current bill.

 

I cannot begin to tell you how gratefull I am for your help. Though eventually submitted the defence by about 5 to 8 minutes late, don't know if that will be an issue, but whatever the case, i am saying a big thanks to you guys and i will definitely shout you on any updates:wink:

[AndyOrch]

You should be OK Kay:wink:

[kay000]

Bit of a way to go yet but it'll slow the process down for a while.

 

Shout when you receive any updates. Use the time to take a good look on here at possible compromise or mediation so you are prepared if/when the opportunity arises.

 

Not sure that I'd want it to progress to trial even on the small claims track on the basis of your defence, far better to find a suitable remedy with corrected charges for both periods [2011 & 2012] and a manageable repayment schedule without a judgment or costs.

 

Aaaaand....don't forget to get back on track with your current bill.

 

 

Hello ppl, Just an update on my defence against BC on behalf of Thames water. After acknowledgement of my defence by the court, got a letter today from BC as follows

Dear Mr Kay

Thames water utilities ltd V yourself

Pls see attached copy letter sent to the court confirming that the claimant wishes to proceed with claim at this time.

The claimant agrees in principle to mediation.

We should also be grateful to hear from you in relation to 'without prejudice' negotiations any

you may contact us on 0845313...

yours sincerely

Bryan Carter.

 

Is this good?? any advice will be of help. Thanks

[Mike_hawk]

Small claims so mediation is pretty much a given and I can't imagine the claimant rejecting the opportunity.

 

If you feel confident on the phone you could telephone and ask it what it wants to discuss and its proposals,

don't make any offer or admission.....

.. the general idea is that you let the other side do the talking.

 

 

If it makes an offer tell it that you will take advice prior to responding.

Bear in mind you shouldn't be able to 'win' the case.

 

 

There's a debt owed which I am sure it can produce evidence of,

your defence was really aimed at forcing its hand to correct its past mistakes.

 

 

If it proposes a settlement with affordable terms at a figure you believe more accurately reflects

the true indebtedness it would certainly be worth considering.

 

If you're not confident on the phone and it has provided an email address it may be easier for you to keep to written w/p correspondence.

 

Alternatively you could ignore, I'd be inclined to take the opportunity to hear what it wants to discuss though.

[kay000]

Small claims so mediation is pretty much a given and I can't imagine the claimant rejecting the opportunity.

 

If you feel confident on the phone you could telephone and ask it what it wants to discuss and its proposals, don't make any offer or admission....... the general idea is that you let the other side do the talking. If it makes an offer tell it that you will take advice prior to responding. Bear in mind you shouldn't be able to 'win' the case. There's a debt owed which I am sure it can produce evidence of, your defence was really aimed at forcing its hand to correct its past mistakes. If it proposes a settlement with affordable terms at a figure you believe more accurately reflects the true indebtedness it would certainly be worth considering.

 

If you're not confident on the phone and it has provided an email address it may be easier for you to keep to written w/p correspondence.

 

Alternatively you could ignore, I'd be inclined to take the opportunity to hear what it wants to discuss though.

 

Thanks Mike, though no email address was supplied,i think i will be more comfortable with correspondence by email.will it be wise to request an email address or will it be a turn off?

[Mike_hawk]

You can but try,

although if you're going to bell it anyway you may as well engage with it for a few minutes

to find out if its looking to compromise the case.

 

 

Nothing to be worried about, if you get a youngster who just wants to demand payment hang up

as it's not going to settle anything.

 

 

If you get someone who is perhaps a little more experienced and understands the commercial

effect of having this argued at trial you may be able to find a happy medium.

 

 

No need to agree or admit anything, just advise that you'll take the information [and/or offer is there is one]

under advisement and will revert in the next few days.

[kay000]

You can but try,

although if you're going to bell it anyway you may as well engage with it for a few minutes

to find out if its looking to compromise the case.

 

 

Nothing to be worried about, if you get a youngster who just wants to demand payment hang up

as it's not going to settle anything.

 

 

If you get someone who is perhaps a little more experienced and understands the commercial

effect of having this argued at trial you may be able to find a happy medium.

 

 

No need to agree or admit anything, just advise that you'll take the information [and/or offer is there is one]

under advisement and will revert in the next few days.

 

Hello Ppl, just a quick update on the outcome of my conversation with Bryan Carter ref. to the letter about possible mediation regarding claims on behalf of Thames Water .

Well the person I spoke to did not really have anything to say to me other than to tell me that I will receive a form from the court and if I am taking the mediation route, then it can be filled in on the form.

Wondering if this means no compromise??

[Mike_hawk]

I think that means you got a numpty......... have you tried to engage with Thames at all regarding the historical billing?

[kay000]

I think that means you got a numpty......... have you tried to engage with Thames at all regarding the historical billing?

 

Ok...I spoke to thames while I was making a payment towards my current bill recently. though the advisor kept merging the disputed period with the current bill, I was of the opinion that it was being contested

and I am at the moment only interested in the current bill."don't know if that was wise", i intend to speak to thames again tomorrow and see where they stand on this. what do you reckon?

[Mike_hawk]

Hi Kay

 

 

I think if you engage with it again it would be sensible to request copy bills for 2011-2012 and 2012-2013

 

 

At some point you will require sight of same to establish how it has calculated the quantum of its claim, it would seem reasonable to press for disclosure by whatever means are open to you.

[kay000]

Hi Kay

 

 

I think if you engage with it again it would be sensible to request copy bills for 2011-2012 and 2012-2013

 

 

At some point you will require sight of same to establish how it has calculated the quantum of its claim, it would seem reasonable to press for disclosure by whatever means are open to you.

 

 

Hi Mike

Yes I have requested the billing history for the periods and it will be sent to me. I suggested dealing with thames rather than BC because BC is not up to date with the acc.

I was then adviced to speak to their collection dept. about possible payment plan. Then today got a letter from BC saying..

 

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

We have been notified by the court that you have filed a defence to this claim.In an attempt to settle this matter before hearing and in order to avoid either party incurring further costs,we confirm that our client

is prepared to accept payment of the full balance by monthly instalments.pls. insert an affordable sum in relation to your financial circumstances in the blank space in the proposed order and sign and return it to

us within 7days.provided the amount is reasonable we will sign the order and send it to court to be sealed.

 

Do I ignore them and seek to deal directly with thames? especially bcos with thames the whole balance is been updated and is about £800 but BC still quotes £928.

[Mike_hawk]

I'd stick with trying to get the billing data from Thames. You are defending primarily on the basis that its records and demands are inaccurate. Has it said when it intends serving you copy bills?

 

The correspondence from BC is one of its standard templates. If you want to compromise the case by consent its your call, post a copy of the proposed order and schedule before signing anything.

[kay000]

I'd stick with trying to get the billing data from Thames. You are defending primarily on the basis that its records and demands are inaccurate. Has it said when it intends serving you copy bills?

 

The correspondence from BC is one of its standard templates. If you want to compromise the case by consent its your call, post a copy of the proposed order and schedule before signing anything.

 

I actually intend to stick with thames. I spoke to thames on friday and the advisor has told me it is being sent right away, so hoping to get it sometime in the week. the order from thames says..

 

thames water ltd and kay

CONSENT ORDER

Before District Judge sitting at Northampton county court Bulk centre

UPON the parties having agree terms of settlement

BY CONSENT

IT IS ORDERED that all further proceedings in this action be stayed upon the terms set out in the schedule below save for the purpose of enforcing or carrying into effect the said terms with permission to apply for that purpose.

AND IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that there be no order as to costs.

SCHEDULE

1. the claimant agrees to accept the sum of £928.35 in settlement of the total claim payable by monthly instalments of £.......providing the first payment is received within 28days from the date of this order and on the same day each month thereafter.

2. The claimant agrees not to enter judgement on the condition that the above arrangement is maintained

3. The claimant be at liberty to enter judgement for the unpaid balance if the defendant defaults in payment arrangements.

 

 

 

.............................................................. ......................................................................

solicitor for the claimant Defendant

Bryan Carter solicitors LLP Kay

[Mike_hawk]

Nothing wrong with the proposed order... except the value!

 

To be honest, it would be ideal to stay the case on agreed terms if/when it is set at an acceptable quantum.

 

Give it a few days for the paperwork from thames , depending on the content you may (assuming BC hasn't passed the file back to Thames) be in a position to suggest your own wp offer to compromise.