David Lloyd & Arc and 3 months noticd

[hadalovelywakeupcallthism]

Hi there, I'm hoping someone can help me out with my David Lloyd membership and bully boy Arc. It seems like so many people here have problems but I'm not sure where I stand.

 

In Jan 2012 I signed up to a gym membership with David Loyds - I paid in advance for 12 months. I incorrectly assumed this meant I had a 12 month contract with DL.

 

In the 12 months I had my membership I used the gym once and the pool maybe 5 times. This was because I found out I was pregnant 2 days after joining and within a few weeks I suffered Hypermesis for the rest of my 40 week pregnancy. I was hospitalised 4 times.

 

I did not realise I could cancel my membership as I believed I was contracted for 12 months and there was nothing I could do.

 

In Feb 2013 DL contacted to me saying they needed to take another years membership from me. I asked why and apparently that was what I agreed to. When I signed up for the membership the sales person explained the T&Cs and I stupidly didn't read them very closely. He explained them briefly - like "this paragraph is about cancelling - you can cancel if you lose your job" he also said "it's mainly for people who pay by DD".

 

Anyway, DL wanted 3 months notice @£117 a month and payment for the month we were currently in - so £468 in total. I explained to them that this wasn't going to happen, a 3 month notice period seemed absurd and as a gesture of goodwill I would pay 1 month. They said this wasn't good enough and instead passed my details to ARC.

 

ARC call me 6 times a day, I told them I dispute the debt and I also asked not to call but instead to write. They don't listen.

 

I don't want to pay ARC £468 but they are wearing me down now. Am I in the wrong here?

 

Thanks.

[Conniff]

Don't pay them anything, they aren't entitled. I think these gyms are run by the same people that run private carparks.

 

I will give Slick a shout, he is the one for this.

[slick132]

Hi HALWUCTM or can I call you Had for short,

 

Did you give the gym any indication by letter, email, discussion or phone call about cancelling the agreement.

 

If so, roughly when, by what means of communication and what did you say.

 

There may be some help for you in the Penal Order made against Ashbourne Management Services Ltd (AMSL) by Mr Justice Kitchin in 2011. Follow the link here and look at s.16(ii) - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?320766-Ashbourne-Management-Services-Ltd-Contracts-longer-than-12-months&p=3577145&viewfull=1#post3577145

 

If ARC are calling you several times a day, send them a Harassment Letter adapted to reflect your own case - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?493-Harassment-by-telephone-response-letter

 

[hadalovelywakeupcallthism]

Hi Slick, thanks for this. I didn't give them anything to say I was going to cancel - because I paid for the entire 12 months upfront and I thought I was contracted for 12 months I thought I didn't have anything to cancel - does that make sense?

 

However, when they called me to tell me I owed the fees for the month we were currently in and then 3 months notice, I said then by phone, to a member of the membership team (and whose name I have) that I though the membership was only for a year and that I had only used it 5 times in a year due to poor health that I didn't intend to continue it after the initial 12 months. This was on the 8th Feb 2013.

 

Thanks, I have just sent ARC that letter by recorded delivery.

[slick132]

Hi Had,

 

Can you say roughly when you last used the pool or gym.

 

I think you can quote the AMSL case to DL saying your action of NOT attending the gym was effectively notice of cancellation.

 

You can say that their requirement of 3 months notice when you paid up front for the years m/ship is unfair to you as a consumer and, if necessary, you will make a formal complaint to the OFT.

 

You can also inform them that you were not able to use the gym due to medical reasons associated with your pregnancy. However, at the time, your healthy pregnancy was more important than dealing with admin matters regarding the gym agreement.

 

Answer my Q above and I'll draft a response for you to send DL.

 

[hadalovelywakeupcallthism]

I last went there on the 25.11.2012, annoyingly - this was to have a gym induction carried out. My son was born 5.10.2012 so I was trying to get some use out of it. I have a personal plan done as I broke my coccyx during the delivery of my son & wanted some fitness guidance. However, the GP later advised me to wait longer before exercising. I used the gym twice and the pool 6 times in a year.

 

How annoying I went there when I hadn't been sine January!! GRR

[slick132]

Hi Had,

 

Another thought has occurred to me - I assume there was no DD mandate involved and you paid the gym by a debit card when you paid the year's m/ship in Jan 2012.

 

If there WAS a DD mandate, when did you cancel it.

 

[hadalovelywakeupcallthism]

There was no mandate Slick - I just paid by debit card.

[slick132]

Noted.

 

Letter to DL Head Office by RM Signed For delivery :-

 

Dear sir or madam,

 

Membership at [town] Gym

 

I refer to the 12 month membership at the above gym which expired in January 2013.

 

Shortly after I joined the gym in 2012, I discovered I was pregnant and, due to various complications, I was only able to use the gym twice and the pool 6 times over the year. I tried using the gym in November a month after my child was born but my GP advised against further use due to me breaking my coccxy during the birth process.

 

No further use was made of the gym after the November visit and I have not attended since.

 

I have since been told that you require 3 months notice to quit and I suggest this is unreasonable and unfair to me as a consumer. I had no Direct Debit mandate in place and my membership was for 1 year only.

 

Furthermore, Mr Justice Kitchin in his ruling against Ashbourne Management Services Ltd in 2011 made it clear that cancellation can be made by various means such as the action of no longer attending.

 

In the circumstances, I think you have had good value from me (full membership paid for 8 visits) and I will not be paying you or ARC the ridiculous amounts they are demanding.

 

I offered to pay one months fee for the notice period but you rejected this. To end this matter, I now make you a final offer Without Prejudice to pay one months fee as notice which you accept in full settlement of all amounts due from me. If you accept this within 14 days, I will pay you promptly.

 

If you fail to accept my offer within 14 days, I will withdraw it and will pay you nothing. If you then make further demands, your actions will be reported to the OFT.

 

Finally, ARC have been calling me up to 6 times a day which I consider to be harassment. I have written them a formal warning but, as you have caused them to harass me, you should also be aware that any action against ARC will include you as a co-defendant.

 

Yours faithfully,

[hadalovelywakeupcallthism]

fabulous Slick! I will this now - recorded delivery to both. Am I legally in the clear? If this went to court would I win? Arc said in one of their calls something about a crystal clear stamp on the T&Cs of my membership?

[slick132]

Hi Had,

 

I'll be honest with you. Because you failed to tell them of your wish to cancel, they will probably argue that you're bound by their T&C's.

 

However, I DO think you have valid arguments that :-

 

1. The agreement is unfair to you in requiring that you give 3 months notice and pay during this time.

 

2. The agreement is unfair in holding you to renewal beyond the initial 12 months unless you cancel.

 

3. You had medical reasons for cancelling even though you failed to tell them either during or after your pregnancy. However you can surely excuse this due to the whole pregnancy and birth scenario.

 

By making the offer to pay the one month, I think you are being reasonable.

 

Are they likely to take court action - experience suggests they are not. And if they do, we'll give you all the help and support we can.

 

Send the letters off and we'll deal with their response as necessary.

 

[hadalovelywakeupcallthism]

Fabulous, I posted them off this afternoon recorded delivery so we will see what time holds. I will update as and when. Thanks slick so much! Is there a donation page or something here? Same you can't sent virtual wine yet

[slick132]

Hi Had,

 

I was wondering where you can post stuff Registered on a Sunday but then realised you wrote this late Sat night.

 

If you hover over the word donation and then click on the link in bottom right of the info box, that takes you to the PayPal donation thingy.

 

And thanks for the virtual wine. It's in my fridge to be enjoyed later in my virtual glass.

[hadalovelywakeupcallthism]

Ok an update for you lovely lot, Arc sent me this today:

 

"Dear Miss Evans,

Unfortunately our client has rejected your offer to pay £117.00 to close this account. However, as a gesture of goodwill, they have agreed to waive the full administration fee of £70.00 on the condition that your payment for £468.00 is received within the next 14 days.

You can make a secure payment to ARC 24 hours a day with your debit or credit card by visiting our web site www.arceuropeltd.co.uk or by calling our automated payment hotline on 0845 0268889. Alternatively you can telephone us to make a payment by debit or credit card.

If we do not receive your payment for £468.00 within the next 14 days, we are instructed to seek the full payment of £538.00 which our client is contractually entitled to"

[Conniff]

Oh look, a joke for slick.

 

I notice how they attempt to blackmail you saying you will have to pay the full lot.

 

I know this is Slicks thread, but I would just send them the amount of £117 and invite them to take you to court for the rest.

[slick132]

Hi HALWUPCTM,

 

You have offered to pay them the £117 twice already and told them this was the last time. They have still rejected the offer so I would pay them nothing.

 

Their goodwill gesture, to waive the admin fee, is a joke. It's an unenforceable penalty and should never have been applied.

 

Dear sir or madam,

 

Your offer to waive the admin fee is hardly generous considering it is an unlawful and unenforceable penalty fee.

 

In my last offer, I confirmed my offer to pay £117 was for a limited time only and you have rejected it. My offer is accordingly withdrawn.

 

Further demands from you will be ignored but will be reported to The OFT as a formal complaint.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

[hadalovelywakeupcallthism]

Hey Slick, don't know what happened here but I didn't get your last reply, only just saw it now I'm logging in to update - I guess the email alertmust have gone to spam But thanks for replying again!

 

I replied to them 24th Oct with an exact replica of my first letter, that you worded Slick.

 

Today I have an update for you! Arc have said this:

Thank you for your email.Our client has confirmed that whilst they consider the full balance of £538.00 outstanding under contract they have agreed to accept your offer to pay £117.00 to close this account. Please be advised that this decision has been made as a gesture of goodwill and on the condition that payment is received within the next 14 days.

You can make a secure payment to ARC 24 hours a day with your debit or credit card by visiting our web site www.arceuropeltd.co.uk or by calling our automated payment hotline on 0845 0268889. Alternatively you can telephone us on 01932 251000 to make a payment by debit or credit card or you can use the following bank details to make payment:-

 

The bit that has got me livid and actually tempted not to pay is that's assertion that this is some gesture of their own goodwill after they have hounded me for months and months and that I should consider myself a lucky ducky! Where do they get off!? What should I do Slick, just pay?

[slick132]

Hi HALWUCTM,

 

If you want to end this now, pay the £117 and be done with it.

 

If you're feeling ballsey, tell them :-

 

Dear sir or madam,

 

In my last letter to you, I made it clear why I had withdrawn the offer I made previously.

 

You rejected my offer and it has been withdrawn.

 

I will pay you nothing more and I will ignore further demands from you, although such demands will be reported to The OFT as a formal complaint.

 

Feel free to take court action if you wish. It will be defended vigorously.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Let us know how you play it.

 

[hadalovelywakeupcallthism]

Hey Slick, I went down the ballsy route, they replied....

Thank you for your email. Please note that ARC (Europe) Ltd is a debt collection agent, acting in good faith on the instructions received from a disclosed principal, namely David Lloyd Leisure. We are therefore authorised to contact you in connection with the above matter, and to instruct Solicitors in contemplation of Court Proceedings where we consider it appropriate to do so.

We have acted in accordance with our client’s instructions and within current collection legislation and guidance. We reserve the right to produce our correspondence to any Tribunal, regulatory body or investigating authority to prove our compliance and good conduct in this matter.

We regret to learn that you do not find our client’s acceptance of your settlement offer acceptable. Please note that we will allow this account to be settled for £117.00 until 26 November 2013, however if you chose not to issue this payment by this date then we will resume further action in regards to the contractual balance of £538.00.

If you wish to report this to the Office of Fair Trading then please ask them to contact us directly and we will confirm our position on this matter, which we consider they will accept as fair and appropriate.

We confirm this is our final position and any further disputes received from you in this regard will be archived but may not be responded to.

You can make a secure payment to ARC 24 hours a day with your debit or credit card by visiting our web site www.arceuropeltd.co.uk or by calling our automated payment hotline on 0845 0268889. Alternatively you can telephone us to make a payment by debit or credit card.

If we do not receive your payment of £117.00 or an alternative offer of payment towards the full balance of £538.00 within the next 14 days, we will pass this account back to our Legal Department with instructions to commence further action.

 

 

I'm just going to pay it now to get it done and dusted!

[slick132]

Hi Had,

 

I'm just going to pay it now to get it done and dusted!

 

I think that is the right move, all things considered.

 

You didn't have the strongest case against them and you could end up paying far more if they did actually take court action.

 

With this matter behind you, you can concentrate on life's more important things.