Dispute with builder over cost for a soak away

[Automan]

I have a builder who has almost finished an extension on the back of my house. The only remaining task was to build a soak away which was included in the original quote. However, we both came to an agreement to remove the soak away from the quoted list of works as it was no longer required but the only problem was that this item was not explicitly priced in the quote so there is some dispute over how much should be deducted.

The builder is adamant that the soak away will cost £500 and is not willing to accept other quotes from other builders. I still owe him some money so where do I stand on this? Am I in my rights to deduct from what I owe him the cost of what other builders would quote for a soak away?

[renegadeimp]

What are the quotes from other builders? Since a price was never explicitly specified, he would find it almost impossible to get his quote of £500 from you. Especially if other builders are quoting lower.

[Automan]

Other builders are actually quoting higher (more than double) because the amount of work involved is quite extensive. The reason why I believe my builder is quoting such a low amount is because he needs to deduct it from the overall amount that I have yet to pay him. The soak away can not be done as part of the work he is doing until some other construction work that he is not contracted to perform has been completed which is some way off. Because of this he has agreed to deduct the cost of the soak away from his bill and I feel that he is not being totally honest and fair with me when it comes to pricing this up.

[raydetinu]

Ask for a breakdown of cost of materials and labour and see if that is fair and can actually be done for that; don't forget he can claim for loss of profit on that item!

[Automan]

Thanks for your reply. It was the builders suggestion that the work should be done at a later date and so we agreed to remove the item from the overall costs. The builder hasn't started any work on the soakaway so how would I know what claim for "loss of profit" was reasonable?

[Automan]

Also there is no provision for "loss of profit" in our contract so can he really claim for this?

[king12345]

£500 is quite a fair price for a soakaway.

After all is just a matter of digging a hole, filling it with broken bricks and line up a length of pipe.

What he is thinking is that becose he gave you a comprehensive quote, then he has discounted all the little jobs making up the entire construction.

Other builders will quote more because it's a standalone job, but £500 sounds about right.

In my opinion it will be very difficult to get much out of him.

Can you let him do the soakaway at a later date or is it absolutely not needed at all?

[Automan]

Well I may believe what you are saying is true except for one thing. My builder charged me £3000 to dig a 1m deep 5m trench for footings. That included waste removal and 4 cubic metres of concrete. Even if the concrete was around £500 and a grab lorry was say £500 that still leaves £2000 labour for just digging the same size hole! Unless I'm missing something I'm not sure why the costs would be so different. Any thoughts?

[raydetinu]

This is where you should of had an itemised and priced contract? not lump sum. RIBA and RICS do free domestic contracts for use on such projects.

You could ask a local Quantity surveyor for a cost estimate for constructing a soakaway at a stand alone price which would be more as your original builder was already on site.

When you reduce the scope of a contract or take out items the contractor will lose the profit from that item, so can claim that element ( normal construction contract law, usually about 10% )

[king12345]

Well I may believe what you are saying is true except for one thing. My builder charged me £3000 to dig a 1m deep 5m trench for footings. That included waste removal and 4 cubic metres of concrete. Even if the concrete was around £500 and a grab lorry was say £500 that still leaves £2000 labour for just digging the same size hole! Unless I'm missing something I'm not sure why the costs would be so different. Any thoughts?

I would itemise the soakaway work as follow:

Digging hole 900mm diameter x 1800mm depth + trench to pass rainwater pipe = no cost of material, labour as below

Cost of soil removal = 1 mini skip (2 yarder) = £100

Cost of scrap bricks to fill soakaway = £50

5 metre length rainwater pipe 80mm = £7

Total labour (1 day work) = £343

As you can see there's no much you can add to this quote.

After all making a soakaway takes only a few hours and £343 for labour is already overpriced.

In my opinion the builder is not ripping you off at all.

Digging for fundations is a different kettle of fish; boards need to be erected to accomodate concrete and hole is much larger thus more material to be removed.

[Automan]

Thanks for the breakdown of costs but in my case there are extra costs that need factoring in. For instance the soakaway would need to be dug into an embankment that is almost 1m higher than the ground level of the house. The embankment is held back by a retaining wall. Building Control have stated that the soakaway would need to go down 2.3m with at least 1:40 gradient and need a 1 cubic metre soakaway crate. On the internet a crates this size are priced somewhere in the region of £200. The soakaway would need to meet design BRE Digest 365.

 

I have had landscape gardeners, builders and drainage companies round to quote me a price and they have all stated that this would be a major job costing in excess of £1000.

 

Out of the quotes I've had already, they range from £1300 to £2500 so even if you factor in adjustments such as loss of profit etc, I still find it difficult to accept £500 as being a reasonable amount to deduct from the overall price.

 

I think what I am going to do is take an average of the three lowest quotes (minus adjustments) and ask the builder to take this amount off his bill. Does this sound fair?

[raydetinu]

Ask him for his breakdown and what he actually included in his price for this element; maybe he just plucked a figure out if the air when he priced? however doubt it, but if only included this amount then it would of have to be done at that price irrespective of the actual cost! so you cant expect him to give you back more than he had allowed!

So negotiate away and see what happens. but you have to be fair if you have been happy with what he has done so far.