Paid 3 weeks early, Attendance to remove.

[Mel03]

Hi all,

 

I have had an extremely bad day.

I got into Council tax arrears when my husband walked out on us ithought bills were being paid when they wasn't. long story short I set up an agreement with ross and Roberts to pay £58 by the 4th of every month.

Me being stupid have always made a payment of £61.50 every month. 3 weeks before the 4th. I have never missed a payment with them. I always like to just pay my bills when the money is there so then I know they are paid and I do not have to worry. being a single mum I need to be organised and I thought I was doing ok.

Anyway this morning a ross and Roberts ballief came knocking on my door demanding £160 to be paid today or they will take my stuff. he said a late payment was received. I argued this I knew I was up to date, checked my emails and theres the proof I paid it on the 6th of last month. iv been paying like this for 5 months I thought it was ok to make a payment any time between the 5th and the 4th before its due as long as it was paid before midnight 4th.

 

I spoke and argued with the manager over the phone he Demanded £190 instead of the original £160 the ballief had slammed on me. Apparantly I cannot make a payment 3 weeks before the due date and apparently I signed a piece of paper stating that I understood this. When the ballief came back to collect the money he explained the part of the sgreement that has caught me out .

 

"If an overpayment is received it will not be taken as payment in advance. "

 

ok I get that, But I paid £61. 50 instead of £58. An overpayment of £2 if you take off the visa card charge they take from you. This was paid on the 6th of Aug which was due on the 4th sept. The £58 isn't an overpayment that's a payment. There is nothing in the agreement stating that I cannot pay this bill 3 weeks in advance.

 

"if your payment is not received by the due date" doesn't this mean I can pay on any date in that month before the 4th as long as they get their payment by the 4th.

anyway I have paid them the money I aint happy because I was doing so well with it making regular payments and yet still have bullies at my door. Its disgusting how they treat people how they change their charges to suit themselves how they can just demand you to get that sort of cash within hours or they will get your stuff. I wouldn't mind so much if it was a late payment or if I didn't pay but I did I have all records and reference numbers. I have always paid on the 6th of every month so I know it has been paid before the 4th of the following month. I thought I had between the 5th and the 4th to pay.

Apparantly not.... payments have to be made between the 1st and 4th. I was never once told that and there is certainly nothing on the agreement that I signed that stated that. iv been doing it my way for month why now have they decided it aint right.

Can they really justify their actions today. rant over .... please excuse the bad spelling.... bad day and im all worked up. Any one else had any problems with these pests or is it just me.

[lookinforinfo]

Oh no-it is not just you.

You have to realise that some bailiffs are cheat, liars, thieves or bullies and some times a combination of any or all of them.

 

It is a shame you did not find this site earlier as we would have advised you to pay the Council direct and cut out the possibility of being robbed blind. The Council cannot refuse payments though some of them

do try to make it difficult especially the ones that are run by Capita as they own several bailiff companies.

 

If you owe any actual Council tax still, then pay the Council direct. Also complain about the behaviour of the bailiffs adding on fees when none were due [the Council is responsible for their bailiff's actions.] Ask that

you do not want to deal with bailiffs in future as they are dishonest threatening bullies.Ask the Council how much their Liability Order was for and if there was more than one.

 

Then write to the bailiffs asking for a complete breakdown of all their fees-the date and time and amount when each charge was incurred and the name of the bailiff involved and where and when he/she was certificated. Also

ask for a copy of the paper you signed where you agreed to pay a regular sum each month. Get them to confirm all the money you have sent them .You should add that this is not subject to a £10 Subject Acess

Request .

 

In the meantime do not open your door to the bailiffs and move any car you may have away from your property.

Once you have the information from the Council and the bailiffs come back and we will see by how much they have over charged you to date and how to get that money back. also if the Council make it difficult to

you pay them direct let us know.

[Mel03]

Thank you for your reply

I now have all forms that I have signed since this started in front of me.

 

I have 2 notices of seizure and inventory of goods both issued on the 4/4/13

 

form 1

 

Amount owing council tax £266.21

Balliff costs(inc VAT) £241.50

total amount if paid today £507.71

 

List of goods includes well I cant read his handwriting for some but includes my daughters x box table lamp cd rack, dvd's and cd;s

 

Form 2

 

Amount owing council tax £311.60

Balliff costs (inc VAT) £45.oo

Total amount if paid today £356.60

 

goods include microwave, washer, tv, table, dining chairs 2 &3 seater leather sofa, coffee table, display cabinet, computer and the desk

 

I paid that day (4/4/13) £286.80 apparently this was too set up agreement but I cant seem to find the receipt for this but will keep looking.

 

then there is the agreement that I signed

 

Outstanding amount £577.31

arrangement amount £58.00pm

First payment due 4/5/13

 

Dates I paid I have a reference number for each

 

20/4/13 - £61.00

9/5/13 - £59.00

6/6/13 - £60.00

6/7/13 - 59.50

6/8/13 - £59.50

9/9/13 - £61.50

 

I had them call round on Wednesday with a default notice and had to pay them £160.00. The new agreement which I had to sign states

 

Outstanding amount £222.31

Arrangement amount £58.00pm

First payment due date 12/10/13 and thereafter on the 12th of each month.

[Mel03]

I read on here somewhere that consideration should be taken with vulnerable people and that a levy should not be issued if you are on benefits/lone single parent. This was dated a few years ago. Does it still stand or is that no longer part of the legislations. I want to pay the council what I owe but I want get these ballifs anyway I can, because there behaviour is appalling. its just something I read and they knew I was on income support (im not anymore, mind you) at the time of doing the lev.y it is written on the paperwork.

[ploddertom]

Start with the Council. You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

[ploddertom]

Then move on to the Bailiffs. This is best sent initially by email - enquiries@bristowsutor.co.uk - with a copy going to them in the post. This should help fill in the bits to what you have already.

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

[ploddertom]

Having had a quick look at the items they are purporting to have seized a lot of them shouldn't be on there and leads me to think they may not be valid anyway. When the Bailiff initially called did you allow him access to your home?

[Mel03]

yes unfortunately I did. I had never been in this situation before so it was all quite a shock and fast moving. I will phone the council today and let you know the outcome. many thanks

[Mel03]

that email given is that the one I send to ross and Roberts or do they have their own ?

[ploddertom]

that email given is that the one I send to ross and Roberts or do they have their own ?

 

Sorry thinking about another thread involving B&S email for R&R = info@rossandroberts.co.uk sorry for any confusion.

[ploddertom]

Are you also aware that your Council may have outsourced their back office functions to a private company. One such company is called Capita who just happen to also own 2 Bailiff Co's one of which is R&R? The reason for mentioning this is if you ring the Council they may not be very cooperative as you may not be speaking to an actual Council employee.

[tomtubby]

It is such a shame that you let the bailiff into your home because, if you had refused them peaceful entry the bailiff would not have been able to charge such fees to your account. Instead, as long as you do not have a car outside of the property...the fees are capped at £42.50.

 

The bailiff can indeed return to the property for the purpose of "attending to remove" ( the goods that he had previously levied upon) but in your particular case, it would have been CLEAR that you had not refused to pay and that any supposed "default" was almost certainly due to a misunderstanding. I would certainly appear to be the case that this company are seeking a way in which to gain a financial benefit and this cannot be right or fair.

 

On the Walking Possession that you signed ( which after all is a LEGAL document) did the bailiff list the precise dates on which payment must be made ?

 

My personal opinion is that you really should make a Formal Stage One Complaint to the local authority and send a copy to Ross & Roberts.

 

Make sure before sending a formal complaint that you make enquiries with the local authority to ascertain the precie amount of the Liability Order and the exact fees that have been added to your accounts.

[hallowitch]

Hi Mel03 welcome nice to see you found your way here you will be ok now and get the best help available

[Mel03]

I have just tried phoning the council but their computer system is down so no joy at the moment.

[wonkeydonkey]

Mel ...just a word of advice.....unless you can record ALL calls with Council/Bailiffs get a paper trail in place.Send all emails with read receipt and any formal complaint made by email should be followed with a hard copy sent snail mail and proof of posting obtained.

 

I read this to be not a default but, that the account is in fact in credit by way of advance payments?

 

Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

WD

[brassnecked]

Wonder if they are trying to argue cleared funds not in by due date? Either way this looks like a Crobbers (Capita infest council have Ross 'n Robbers which they own as bailiffs the step brother to the Crapquita scenario, as in capita & Equita) stitch up.

[Mel03]

Hi Mel03 welcome nice to see you found your way here you will be ok now and get the best help available

 

thank u so much for all the advice u have given me it really is appreciated

[Mel03]

Wonder if they are trying to argue cleared funds not in by due date? Either way this looks like a Crobbers (Capita infest council have Ross 'n Robbers which they own as bailiffs the step brother to the Crapquita scenario, as in capita & Equita) stitch up.

 

I don't think they could argue that one. like to see them try tho

[Mel03]

Well guys I have just got off the phone to the council. I have to say the lady I spoke to was rather helpful. She has told me that there is only one liability order which was for the £311 outstanding. They have no knowledge of the The second liability order which I mentioned £266.21. They have told me that I have never had an outstanding amount for that amount, I couldn't get a lot of the answers for the first liability order because the records apparently take a while to update but I guess I can ask for them in writing cant I ? I have sent the email you guys advised to Ross and Roberts so its just a matter of waiting now for them to reply. Also do you think I should write to the council reqesting the same information that I have asked for over the phone just to get this in writing

[brassnecked]

Everything in writing, you need a paper trail

[Mel03]

Mel ...just a word of advice.....unless you can record ALL calls with Council/Bailiffs get a paper trail in place.Send all emails with read receipt and any formal complaint made by email should be followed with a hard copy sent snail mail and proof of posting obtained.

 

I read this to be not a default but, that the account is in fact in credit by way of advance payments?

 

Thank you for your message they have tried to say that the payment I made on the 6th August was seen as an over payment for the previous 4Th due date when I fact I paid it on the grounds that it was a payment that was due before the next 4th. I thought I was ok to do that I was told originally I could pay at anytime during the month as long as it reached them by the due date. one payment had to be made each month for exact or over the amount I agreed too. Fair enough if I paid it on the 3rd yes I would see that as an overpayment. the fact that I have been told by the bailiff that it takes 4 days for card payments to clear if you pay over the internet which means it would of reached then on the 10th. 3 weeks before due date should not be seen as an overpayment. as you can see from my record payments I have always paid like this only now has it been a problem. I didn't think I was doing anything wrong.

I have recorded the phone call I had with the council thank u for your advice

[hallowitch]

you find out who the CEO of your council and send them something like this

 

 

Name

address

both council tax ref no

both bailiff ref no

Financial discrepancy's one liability order two being enforced

dear sir,

 

Please regard this E-Mail as a Formal Complaint

 

I had cause to phone (local authority) on 16/09/13 regarding council tax arrears for the above accounts the reason for call was to gather information with a view to making a complaint regarding levy fees charged by Bailiff Mr xxx and Ross & Roberts sending same bailiff on (date) to remove goods as I had failed to adhere to the terms of my payment agreements as payments were made 3 weeks before the due date and were over the agreed amount please note my account is not in arrears and no payments have missed

the charge for this visit being £160

during this call I was informed that Ross & Roberts were enforcing one liability order of £xxx I was rather taken back by this comment as Ross & Roberts are enforcing two liability orders the 2nd one £xxx

Fees have been charged and payments have been made to both accounts

Due to the information above and the fact that to date I have paid £770 against a debt that appears to be £311 I request that xxxx local authority put my accounts on hold until it can be established exactly what is owed to yourself and that all bailiff fees are correct under current legislation

please send me full audit of both accounts to include

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

8 - the dates & amounts of any payments made to you by Ross & Roberts

 

 

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

Due to the severity of my complaint and To take this matter forward an early reply would appreciated please also include a copy of complaints procedure with your reply

Edited September 16, 2013 by hallowitch

[hallowitch]

ohh you can record calls

 

If your up for it phone the bailiff and ask him what fees he has charged on account 1 because he didn't break them down on the levy £241.5 act stupid then ask him what court he was certificated

council tax fees come under Regulation 45 (b) schedule 5 charges connected with distress under The council tax administration and enforcement regulations

http://www.bexley.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=3028&p=0

[tomtubby]

Wonkeydonkey

 

Great to see you back on the forum. Hopefully you are feeling better !!

[Mel03]

ohh you can record calls

 

If your up for it phone the bailiff and ask him what fees he has charged on account 1 because he didn't break them down on the levy £241.5 act stupid then ask him what court he was certificated

council tax fees come under Regulation 45 (b) schedule 5 charges connected with distress under The council tax administration and enforcement regulations

http://www.bexley.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=3028&p=0

 

Not sure im that brave lol