Post Work Programme Questions

[BP1]

Hi jasta11

 

Many thanks for your advice and reassurance.

 

As regards to the withdrawal of consent guidelines/regulations do they cover all of the following or just one of the following:

1. withdrawal of consent from sharing my CV with other parties

2. withdrawal of consent to store my CV electronically on the WP database and archiving my CV via hardcopy

 

If I use the Consent me & Avanta letters as a template will that be sufficient for a withdrawal of consent letter. Do the above 2 letters express and state the appropriate guidelines for the right to withdraw consent or is there another link that I may need to view.

 

Do I have any cause of action if my withdrawal of consent is not confirmed/acknowledged in writing by the WP providers. (i.e. the WP provider does not agree to or accept my withdrawal of consent).

My concern is that the WP advisor may revert back to their requirement of keeping my CV for 10yrs for there Audit Trail & Compliance.

 

Avanta letter web address: mysubdomain.wordpress.com/2012/07/18/open-withdrawal-of-consent-to-avanta/

 

Best regards

[Mr.P]

I said to my advisor that my entitlement to a copy of my report is expressed in your guidelines. However he disagreed on this point.

I am thinking of sending my advisor an email showing him the guidelines below. If however my WP advisor disagrees to provide me with a exit report copy, do I have any cause of action?

 

Must admit, I've found WP "advisers" to be generally disagreeable - I suspect it is a job requirement...

 

If the "adviser" disagrees with DWP issued guidance and refuses to provide a copy of the exit report, a formal, written complaint should be sent to his head office and the DWP. Failure to follow official guidance could be seen as breach of contract, not that much would be done about it, but you have opportunity to pay back on all those wasted days of pointless courses & meetings.

 

As for withdrawing consent - Go the full mile and specify "all personal data including, but not limited to CVs". Once you have finished with the Work Programme, the provider has no business redistributing your CV or any other personal information.

[BP1]

Mr P

 

Thanks Mr P for your advice.

My PWP interview is early next week I hope all goes well for me on that front.

 

Best regards

BP1

[Mr K]

Hi Scare and Jasta

 

Split your search in to 1 hour bite sizes. I would do one at 9 am , 1pm 5pm and 8pm. I would log all your other site applications during those times and do a UJM search at the end of the day and log your applications with the rest on the activity page. Don't search UJM whilst logged in as they will demand an explanation as to why you didn't apply for a job if you looked at it.

 

Agree on that one. If you don't want to apply for a vacancy on UJM, if u click the back button while logged in the JC advisor will ask why you didn't apply. If you click a reason on the other hand (too far, too little money, not desired career area/skill level) you walk straight into a sanction as I was told you had to take any type of work after 13 weeks.

 

Also, they say that UJM is mandatory to sign up, but optional as to whether you allow access. I kept mine private, when I went into the JC i expected to be handed the keyboard to log in - the advisor logged in in front of me without the password. Maybe they have administrator rights for UJM by matching our contact details etc? I have since removed my contact numbers, added a new hotmail address and changed my password.

 

Since registering on UJM and making my profile searchable I get roughly 2 emails a day from CV library and other bogus looking sources. You know, you ring them and they tell you it's been filled. Then the next day you get the exact same job ads emailed to you again.

 

I have a meeting with my advisor at 9am tomorrow (6/9) so will see whether she can log in tomorrow. She was trying to force me into voluntary work last month, I start college on Monday (below 16hr/wk). She just said that I was deliberately making myself unavailable for work and said I should quit college. I don't think so. This is the first time I've felt that I'm moving forwards in 2 years and JCP want me to give it up to possibly be in the same position this time next year.

[Mr.P]

I expected to be handed the keyboard to log in - the advisor logged in in front of me without the password.

 

If she logged in to your account from the terminal on her desk, this is a real serious breach of DWP IT procedures - If you can provide evidence of this happening again, she would be in heap big trouble. Maybe a quiet word in the ear of a line manager would put a stop to it happening again..

[Mr K]

If she logged in to your account from the terminal on her desk, this is a real serious breach of DWP IT procedures - If you can provide evidence of this happening again, she would be in heap big trouble. Maybe a quiet word in the ear of a line manager would put a stop to it happening again..

 

Told this morning that the laws were changing under universal credit and that soon it would be mandatory for us to allow access. She didn't even look at my UJM account at all today, was a case of 20mins and finished off by saying that she has to report me for doing college 2 days per week from Monday. Also the laws changed last month with regards to college (no courses above NVQ level 2 allowed regardless of being under 16 hours) so there is a strong possibility I will have to sign off. Have checked with the college and they are not aware of any changes.

 

Still looking and applying for work as required.

[jasta11]

Told this morning that the laws were changing under universal credit and that soon it would be mandatory for us to allow access.

 

Yes, I was also told that by my advisor too (and she's a very decent person so i know she wasn't just saying it for effect). Had to come of course - the DWP must feel pretty silly being able to make us create a UJ account, but NOT be able to make us show them it!

 

Until it does become mandatory though, I'm still not using it, purely on the principle that it's useless!

[Mr K]

At the moment the JC are being reasonable with the attendance requirements (monthly) and i already have a complaint bouncing about at Caxton House about JCP and ATOS so hoping they might leave me alone for a while longer until i get a job to sign off. The advisor is fair and I get the impression that her hands were tied. Im looking at doing a bit of PAT testing (i used to do a bit for myself) to try and earn some money away from JCP until I can get something more permanent.

 

NVQ isn't recognised as a qualification with most big employers anymore. Look on UJM or Reed.co.uk and the requirement for a lot of vacancies is now HND or above. If the job centre won't help us or at least be flexible how can we ever apply for anything other than minimum wage work that doesn't even take you away from benefits as you still have to claim tax credits etc?

[scaredonjsa]

Thanks for the links

 

Here's the link to the FOI reply regarding not having to provide screen prints from UJ. Read down the screen and you'll find the DWP's reply which you can open and print out.

 

Here's the one about not being required to hand over a CV, email address or telephone number.

 

Have a good look through the site at all the DWP FOI requests - some valuable stuff there to arm yourself with!

 

*added for everyone* Speaking of which, I've just seen this FOI response regarding consent - worth looking at and printing out.

[scaredonjsa]

finished off by saying that she has to report me for doing college 2 days per week from Monday. Also the laws changed last month with regards to college (no courses above NVQ level 2 allowed regardless of being under 16 hours

 

Anyone have any idea how this would affect Open University degrees? I have 2 years left to complete then I have my degree.

 

Its classed as part time distance learning but is higher than NVQ Level 2.

 

Doing 2 modules a year which at a brick uni is seen as full time study but with the open university 120 credits a year is still part time as you can fit in study around everything else going on in life.

 

I am really concerned now that my long term job goals of becoming a primary school teacher will now won't happen.

 

Thanks

[scaredonjsa]

My adviser is insisting on a copy of my CV, they know I won't email a copy so they have asked me to bring a hard copy to my next interview, just to have in my file. Would I be able to remove all my personal details from this apart from my job history as according to them its just to refer to in my interviews if she's not clear about some things.

 

Thanks

[Mr K]

Anyone have any idea how this would affect Open University degrees? I have 2 years left to complete then I have my degree.

 

Its classed as part time distance learning but is higher than NVQ Level 2.

 

Doing 2 modules a year which at a brick uni is seen as full time study but with the open university 120 credits a year is still part time as you can fit in study around everything else going on in life.

 

I am really concerned now that my long term job goals of becoming a primary school teacher will now won't happen.

 

Thanks

 

It's just a nightmare as everyone you see in the JC will tell you something different. Either that or the rules change from one month to the next. Universal Credit being blamed as the culprit at my interview yesterday.

 

I may be wrong but I think you might be ok studying OU as you can fit it around work/job search commitments (suppose you could put it down as a home activity or hobby). I think its when you study to a set timetable at a college that they get funny because it restricts the days you are available for work.

 

I'm aiming to head towards teaching chemistry and physics at secondary level. I think it may be worth moving back home and losing my ESA for a few months if it means a step towards a better career rather than being trained to push a broom around a factory floor if they do decide to recycle us on another Work Programme at some point. Obviously not everyone is able to do this as everyone's circumstances are different. I'm just going to try and hang in on ESA as long as i can and carry on with the job applications.

 

Good luck with the OU

[Mr K]

My adviser is insisting on a copy of my CV, they know I won't email a copy so they have asked me to bring a hard copy to my next interview, just to have in my file. Would I be able to remove all my personal details from this apart from my job history as according to them its just to refer to in my interviews if she's not clear about some things.

 

Thanks

 

DWP released a direction that claimants do not have to disclose email addresses or contact numbers on a CV or UJM. (There is a link somewhere on this site).

[jasta11]

..they don't even have to hand over a CV either, as this FOI response extract dated 6th August clearly states;

 

'Providing a CV, email address or telephone number is not mandatory, therefore is not

sanctionable'

 

You'll still need to show the JC that you have a CV, or else they'll say 'by not having a CV you're seriously affecting your chances of finding work therefore you can be referred for sanction'. Print out your CV, take it to the JC and show the advisor you have one as proof - but you do not have to let them keep it.

[Mr K]

..they don't even have to hand over a CV either, as this FOI response extract dated 6th August clearly states;

 

'Providing a CV, email address or telephone number is not mandatory, therefore is not

sanctionable'

 

You'll still need to show the JC that you have a CV, or else they'll say 'by not having a CV you're seriously affecting your chances of finding work therefore you can be referred for sanction'. Print out your CV, take it to the JC and show the advisor you have one as proof - but you do not have to let them keep it.

 

Thats interesting to know.. Bit late now because I handed a paper copy over. Was handed a cv workshop template to rejig my cv at home, so will do this to keep them happy.

 

I was also asked to do a written action plan as well to put on my file. Basically what I plan to do, where i want to be and how I will go about it and how I'm going to take my next steps. I think its their way of making me me load my own gun and shoot myself with it under the new study rules.

 

The rules state that 2 weeks study is allowed in any 12 month period. The two weeks do not need to be together but the course must be employment related training. So I'm guessing that unless you do distance learning (OU etc) this limits you to SIA licences, CSCS cards, forklift certificates and the like.

 

I was supposed to be referred to National Careers Service but I saw them on WP so JC said I had no need to.

[Mr.P]

The rules state that 2 weeks study is allowed in any 12 month period. The two weeks do not need to be together but the course must be employment related training. So I'm guessing that unless you do distance learning (OU etc) this limits you to SIA licences, CSCS cards, forklift certificates and the like.

 

Add to the list Food Hygiene and First Aid courses - The latter, if it is the full three day course, is worth doing even it it doesn't land you a job. Many of the recreational evening classes run by local adult education services could be twisted to having some employment related content. Creative writing and poetry to improve your CV and help with speculative job letters would be one example.

 

Quite a few jobs require degree level qualifications, so if you're doing an OU course relevant to your career choice, it would be employment related.

[Mr K]

Add to the list Food Hygiene and First Aid courses - The latter, if it is the full three day course, is worth doing even it it doesn't land you a job. Many of the recreational evening classes run by local adult education services could be twisted to having some employment related content. Creative writing and poetry to improve your CV and help with speculative job letters would be one example.

 

Quite a few jobs require degree level qualifications, so if you're doing an OU course relevant to your career choice, it would be employment related.

 

Add Numeracy, Literacy and basic IT skills to that.

I'm expecting to have to sign off so its not a problem. Just a bit of a struggle if theres no income and still looking for work around the course. If I had known the rules were changing I would have applied to do the equivalent foundation year at uni under a conventional student loan and signed off to do it as a full time student rather than the college route.

 

The 24+ loan only covers course fees.

[BP1]

I had my 1st PWP interview today at the jobcentre. Although I had an advisor (FLA) that spoke to me in a respectful manner (not the usual condescending, vindictive or patronising advisers...) that's as good as things got for me today.

My WP exit report was not sent to my jobcentre. My WP exit interview was on 29thAug2013 & my official WP leaving date was 6thSept2013. The FLA said that there should have been 2 WP exit reports, one copy sent to the jobcentre and one copy given to you. The FLA also said that the system says that your WP leaving date was 2ndSept2013. He said he will request a copy for the exit report.

(I did also request an WP exit report from my WP at my WP exit interview - but they declined to provide one, WP's providing misinformation, what's new.... - however DWP guidelines clearly state entitlement of a copy). As I arrived home I did think was my PWP interview at the jobcentre valid as there was no WP exit report which was in essence what should have been discussed at the interview together with ways to improve my employment prospects. If only I thought of this at the jobcentre and questioned the validity of the interview as there was no WP exit report.

 

At my interview I had no questionnaire or action plan forms to fill in. However my FLA did require me to agree to a new Jobseekers Agreement (JSAg) even though my previous JSAg was changed 6 months ago to meet & comply with stricter measures. I was told on my new JSAg I would have to do the following:

 

* I have to attend the jobcentre everyday. I previously attended once every 2weeks.

* Apply for 21 jobs a week (3jobs/day) whereby my previous requirement was to apply for 5jobs/week minimum.

* Apply for any suitable job vacancy available. (The job can be any job e.g. cleaning, the vacancy does not have to meet the criteria of your experience or jobs that you were originally aspiring to find employment in.

There were 7 other conditions (10 in total), however the above 3 were the conditions of great concern as I did not find them reasonable.

 

I did discuss with my FLA that I already have a valid JSAg and that I found the new JSAg very stringent and not reasonable in terms of meeting the new required conditions. He did respond by saying that if I did not agree to the new JSAg conditions and I did not sign the agreement he would have to send my response to the Decision Maker. I did ask would the outcome give rise to a sanction. On that point he said there could be a possibility but I could not say if there will be or not.

I added further that if I signed for the new JSAg I will have to write down signed under duress and not willfully. At this point he said he will have to speak to his Manager. The FLA's Manager came over and told me that everyone coming back from WP are on the same conditions (the above 3 mentioned earlier)and that there will be a doubt raised which will go to the Decision Maker if I did not agree. We went over discussing the same points as I did with my FLA. Once I was left with the FLA I realised that the conditions felt like they were set up to make me get a sanction. Well the next step might be the wrong one to take but I decided that even if I disagreed with the new JSAg and did not sign and my response was taken up with the Decision Maker. The way all this is geared up seemed to me that I would only be prolonging the inevitable - a sanction. So I decided to sign off today.

 

My FLA did mention that I may be entitled to ESA if I can get a medical certificate from my Doctor. I am currently rehabilitating from an injury I had from an accident.

 

Anyway I hope my future bodes well in terms of finding employment and I wish all fellow forumers good success in pursuit of their endeavours.

 

Thanks to all that helped and provided a good source of information on this thread and other threads on this website.

 

Best regards

BP1

 

 

I was also handed a paper headed Post Work Programme Support (Doc ref: OCM1) which did state the following:

 

(Extract)

 

Your Jobseekers Agreement/Claimant Commitment will be updated to include the steps you need to take to give you the best prospects of employment and that lead to a job as quickly as possible.

 

This may include such things as:

 

Developing an on-line CV to assist with Jobsearch activity.

Completing mock job applications and taking part in mock interviews to help build your confidence and improve your interview technique.

Attending the Jobcentre more frequently.

Keeping in touch with your Personal Adviser on a regular basis.

Undertaking a skills assessment and addressing any skills needs.

Attending courses or other programmes to improve your employment prospects.

 

What we expect from you

We expect you to do all you can to look for work each week. Successful job seeking can take as long as a full time job. You must be willing to take up any work that you are capable of doing, unless otherwise agreed with your adviser.

[Mr K]

I had my 1st PWP interview today at the jobcentre. Although I had an advisor (FLA) that spoke to me in a respectful manner (not the usual condescending, vindictive or patronising advisers...) that's as good as things got for me today.

My WP exit report was not sent to my jobcentre. My WP exit interview was on 29thAug2013 & my official WP leaving date was 6thSept2013. The FLA said that there should have been 2 WP exit reports, one copy sent to the jobcentre and one copy given to you. The FLA also said that the system says that your WP leaving date was 2ndSept2013. He said he will request a copy for the exit report.

(I did also request an WP exit report from my WP at my WP exit interview - but they declined to provide one, WP's providing misinformation, what's new.... - however DWP guidelines clearly state entitlement of a copy). As I arrived home I did think was my PWP interview at the jobcentre valid as there was no WP exit report which was in essence what should have been discussed at the interview together with ways to improve my employment prospects. If only I thought of this at the jobcentre and questioned the validity of the interview as there was no WP exit report.

 

At my interview I had no questionnaire or action plan forms to fill in. However my FLA did require me to agree to a new Jobseekers Agreement (JSAg) even though my previous JSAg was changed 6 months ago to meet & comply with stricter measures. I was told on my new JSAg I would have to do the following:

 

* I have to attend the jobcentre everyday. I previously attended once every 2weeks.

* Apply for 21 jobs a week (3jobs/day) whereby my previous requirement was to apply for 5jobs/week minimum.

* Apply for any suitable job vacancy available. (The job can be any job e.g. cleaning, the vacancy does not have to meet the criteria of your experience or jobs that you were originally aspiring to find employment in.

There were 7 other conditions (10 in total), however the above 3 were the conditions of great concern as I did not find them reasonable.

 

I did discuss with my FLA that I already have a valid JSAg and that I found the new JSAg very stringent and not reasonable in terms of meeting the new required conditions. He did respond by saying that if I did not agree to the new JSAg conditions and I did not sign the agreement he would have to send my response to the Decision Maker. I did ask would the outcome give rise to a sanction. On that point he said there could be a possibility but I could not say if there will be or not.

I added further that if I signed for the new JSAg I will have to write down signed under duress and not willfully. At this point he said he will have to speak to his Manager. The FLA's Manager came over and told me that everyone coming back from WP are on the same conditions (the above 3 mentioned earlier)and that there will be a doubt raised which will go to the Decision Maker if I did not agree. We went over discussing the same points as I did with my FLA. Once I was left with the FLA I realised that the conditions felt like they were set up to make me get a sanction. Well the next step might be the wrong one to take but I decided that even if I disagreed with the new JSAg and did not sign and my response was taken up with the Decision Maker. The way all this is geared up seemed to me that I would only be prolonging the inevitable - a sanction. So I decided to sign off today.

 

My FLA did mention that I may be entitled to ESA if I can get a medical certificate from my Doctor. I am currently rehabilitating from an injury I had from an accident.

 

Anyway I hope my future bodes well in terms of finding employment and I wish all fellow forumers good success in pursuit of their endeavours.

 

Thanks to all that helped and provided a good source of information on this thread and other threads on this website.

 

Best regards

BP1

 

 

I was also handed a paper headed Post Work Programme Support (Doc ref: OCM1) which did state the following:

 

(Extract)

 

Your Jobseekers Agreement/Claimant Commitment will be updated to include the steps you need to take to give you the best prospects of employment and that lead to a job as quickly as possible.

 

This may include such things as:

 

Developing an on-line CV to assist with Jobsearch activity.

Completing mock job applications and taking part in mock interviews to help build your confidence and improve your interview technique.

Attending the Jobcentre more frequently.

Keeping in touch with your Personal Adviser on a regular basis.

Undertaking a skills assessment and addressing any skills needs.

Attending courses or other programmes to improve your employment prospects.

 

What we expect from you

We expect you to do all you can to look for work each week. Successful job seeking can take as long as a full time job. You must be willing to take up any work that you are capable of doing, unless otherwise agreed with your adviser.

 

I didn't get an exit from my WP provider either. I finished in June and they are telling the Job Centre they have no record of me going on it despite going for fortnightly interviews!

[Flickyhecky]

I have my first Post Work Programme interview tomorrow...

 

Only one thing i need to know, now that i've left the WP, can JCP sanction me for missing an appontment whilst on the WP, or does it have to be done by the people on the WP?

 

If you've read my other posts then you'll know the reason why i'm asking!

 

I got sanctioned for 2 weeks at the start of August for missing an appointment last July, but that's not the half of it!

[jasta11]

The WP people can't sanction anyone - though they try and act like they can. They have no power to sanction, they can only tell tales to the DWP who do have the power.

 

If the JC don't know you missed an appointment - assuming the WP haven't actually reported anything to them - then best to say nothing. Wait until the JC mention it (and hopefully they won't). Good luck with your first PWP interview - only advice I can give, having been through it, is to show them that you're motivated and organised and applying for plenty of jobs then hopefully you might avoid being sent on useless courses. They'll be picking on the people who don't seem to be making much effort so try and show them that you are.

 

it seems to vary from JC to JC though - some get a lot of extra jobsearch to do while others get very little. Depends on the advisor, hope you get a decent one.

[Mr.P]

Only one thing i need to know, now that i've left the WP, can JCP sanction me for missing an appontment whilst on the WP, or does it have to be done by the people on the WP?

 

WP providers should notify the DWP/JCP of a benefit doubt as soon as possible after a failure to attend. There is no time limit set, so in theory, a vindictive WP "adviser" could send the paperwork off months after the event.. As jasta11 said, the provider would have to inform the DWP before a sanction could be imposed, and they have to follow a set procedure.

 

However, the DWP has been sitting on a pile of doubts whilst they waited for this Cat Reilly appeal to go through the high court in July 2013. Sanctions are now being handed out for doubts raised back in January and earlier.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

:

:As I arrived home I did think was my PWP interview at the jobcentre valid as there was no WP exit report which was in essence what should have been discussed at the interview together with ways to improve my employment prospects. If only I thought of this at the jobcentre and questioned the validity of the interview as there was no WP exit report.

:

:

Unless the discussion was led by a Professional Careers Adviser, the issue as to what a Welfare To Work Clerks thinks could improve your employment prospects, is evidentially contentious.

 

I am sorry to learn that you opted for signing off - which, if you dont have a job to go to, or have a full time place on a training course, may be financially difficult for anyone in similar circumstances.

[Flickyhecky]

Well that was interesting...

 

Had a nice advisor, who was basically nasty but in a friendly way!

 

Briefly spoke about my 2 years on the WP, said they gave me bugger all help, felt bullied into doing things, which is why i hadn't been for the past year and a half (i'm sure that'll catch up with me eventually!)

 

Going to open a UJ account, but not using any of my known e-mail addresses...the JC are going to give me one, so i'm gonna play ball for now with this.

 

They also want me to follow them on Twitter, because apparently they can help you find work that way as well. So told them i'll be opening a new account just for that! (i don't want them to read my tweets!)

 

The biggie now...you are so gonna love THIS!!!....

 

We have a Jobs Fair in town next October, they have one ever so often, never taken much notice, i've been to a few, but wasn't much help...but this time...it's mandatory...how does that work exactly? It's a free event, my advisor says that it's expensive to put on and by forcing EVERY claiment to go, they hope at least a few people will get something out of it!

 

My JS agreement isn't all that bad now, gotta apply for 10 jobs a week ... for now.

 

I find the best thing to do at these interviews is distract the advisor in any way, it throws then!

 

My only problem now is that i have a huge amount of appointments to keep in the next 2-3 weeks (5 i think, i know i'm gonna forget about one of them!)

[Mr.P]

I find the best thing to do at these interviews is distract the advisor in any way, it throws then!

 

My only problem now is that i have a huge amount of appointments to keep in the next 2-3 weeks (5 i think, i know i'm gonna forget about one of them!)

 

Another way to take control of an appointment is to demand a private room where you can record the conversations - This really throws WP "advisers" and puts them at a disadvantage.

 

As for the next couple of weeks, get in to the habit of going to bed early and forgetting about the late night TV. Set the alarm to go off at say 07:30 (I know, daytime TV is crap) and check your diary over breakfast.