Water company - harassment / no contract - court threats.

[abettertomorrow]

Hi guys

 

My local water company is threatening me with court action regarding alleged debts. Since moving into my rented property 3 years ago I have been requesting a contract and a true bill all this time but to no avail.

 

The water company is now threatening me with court action for refusal to pay... even though I have never refused payment. I have accepted to pay in full on condition they provide me with a contract and a true bill (breakdown to the penny of all costs).

 

What is the best way for me to proceed if court proceedings are the only option. Should I prepare a 'letter before action' for courts, or keep asking water company for a lawfully binding contract and ignore their idle threats!

 

Any help would be most welcome.

 

Thanks guys.

[unclebulgaria67]

I think you need to look into a bit more. The law regard billing for water is all in the water companies favour. You only have to live in a property with a water supply and you are legally obliged to pay them the bills they send you. There does not need to be a contract.

 

http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/consumerissues/chargesbills/

 

Have a read of the Ofwat link which should tell you what you need to know and start a complaint with the water company or escalate to Ofwat if you need to.

[abettertomorrow]

Thank you for your response unclebulgaria67.

 

"There does not need to be a contract."

I have had this debate with water company already. They claim the Water Act 1991 means a contract is not required.

 

If this is the case, I require proof of their claims. Where did I agree or sign an agreement saying I acquiesce to the water act. Is there a social contract which I've missed.

In the meantime I shall request water companies code of practice as their last letter to me was downright disgusting. Blatant threats were made in the form of; give us full amount or we will take your money without your permission.

[unclebulgaria67]

Thank you for your response unclebulgaria67.

 

"There does not need to be a contract."

I have had this debate with water company already. They claim the Water Act 1991 means a contract is not required.

 

If this is the case, I require proof of their claims. Where did I agree or sign an agreement saying I acquiesce to the water act. Is there a social contract which I've missed.

In the meantime I shall request water companies code of practice as their last letter to me was downright disgusting. Blatant threats were made in the form of; give us full amount or we will take your money without your permission.

 

Just contact OFWAT or Citizens Advice and they will confirm that no contract is required for a water company to bill you. The Water Act was introduced as there were people living in properties using the water without paying for it, claiming they had no contract. The Water Act was part of the deal, when the Tory government privatised the water industry.

[steampowered]

As above, they do not need a contract.

 

English law does not require contracts to be in writing. It is possible to enter into contracts through your conduct. Even if the Water Act 1991 did not exist, I think you would be deemed to enter into a contract with the water company through your conduct in using the water.

 

Unless you have some other reason for refusing to pay the bill it would be wise to reach an agreement with the water company, before interest and court fees are added to the total.

[unclebulgaria67]

 

Unless you have some other reason for refusing to pay the bill it would be wise to reach an agreement with the water company, before interest and court fees are added to the total.

 

Plus bailiff/High Court Enforcement fees. Some of the water companies will obtain CCJ's and if the amount is over £600 employ High Court Enforcement Officers, who charge silly amounts.

 

If abettertomorrow has a good reason for a dispute they should take this up with the water company or if they have done this without resolution, then they should elevant their dispute to OFWAT. This should be done in writing with copies of letters kept, together with proof of postage. Should this go to court, this evidence of a dispute may be really helpful.

[steveod]

As above, they do not need a contract.

 

English law does not require contracts to be in writing. It is possible to enter into contracts through your conduct. Even if the Water Act 1991 did not exist, I think you would be deemed to enter into a contract with the water company through your conduct in using the water.

 

I agree the op needs to make arrangement to settle due to the water act. However doesn't deemed conduct only relate to bilateral contracts and not a unilateral contract such as water, utility supply etc. otherwise what are the t and cs a person would be entering into when they have not even seen them? Could it be that the supply is free or would cost £5000 per month, would only be priovided on day x but not day y, etc? Also if deemed conduct in a unilateral conduct without sight of the t and cs could be valid, then private parking companies would be laughing as they could then enforce drivers to pay based on their conduct and not be worried about signs, etc

[abettertomorrow]

Thanks for all your replies folks. Much appreciated.

 

I think we are getting to the crux of the problem here. Steveod hits the nail on the head... regarding terms and conditions.

 

The problem I have with water company is: -

- They are a private company, they operate for profit. How much of water bill goes towards cost of water and how much is fat cat shareholder money. I am more than happy to pay for water and sewerage, but not when most of my money goes towards fat cat salaries. Am I not entitled to see a breakdown to the penny of where my money is spent?

- I cannot use another provider. I am forced to use one water company. I have no choice... totalitarian regime

- Acts and statutes require consent from the governed. I did not consent to the water act, nor did I agree to the privatization of water.

- Is there a social contract where it states I have agreed to adhere to acts and statutes passed by bankers and corrupt politicians. If I have not caused harm, injury or loss to another human being, then as far as I am concerned I have committed no crime. All other laws are man made, and therefore require my consent. This includes acts and statutes

[steampowered]

You may be entirely right about some of the money going towards shareholders and/or a lack of choice. But that does not mean you can ignore the law. Laws would be completely pointless if everyone could decide which ones they want to follow. You cannot argue that the Water Act does not apply to you, anymore than you can say that the Theft Act 1968 does not apply to you therefore you can steal what you want, or that you can drive 200mph on a motorway because you don't consent to the Road Traffic Act.

 

Please don't be drawn into the "freeman of the land" stuff. It will not help you if you end up in court - please review the cases section on the Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemen_on_the_land.

 

In relation to steveod's point, if this were a normal contract (ignoring the impact of the Water Act) then the water company might struggle to enforce the T&Cs. However, T&Cs are not necessary for there to be a contract. By using goods or services you are generally deemed to accept an offer by the other party to provide those goods or services at their standard rate.

[unclebulgaria67]

abettertomorrow

 

You do have some choice in the matter. You can ask to be disconnected from mains water and sewerage services, provided that you own the freehold to the land. Then sort out your own water and sewerage. I believe there are properties in rural areas with their own spring water or other water supply, plus their own sewerage systems, so they have no need to deal with these water supply companies.

[abettertomorrow]

Hi Steampowered

"By using goods or services you are generally deemed to accept an offer by the other party to provide those goods or services at their standard rate"

This is another issue I have with water company. I have no choice in the matter. I do not want to use their goods and services, but they told me I have to. I have no choice when it comes to selecting the best value for money water company. I live in rented accomodation so I do not have the luxury of doing what unclebulgaria67 suggests; getting disconnected from water services.

 

It's a catch 22. Water company rightfully state that water is a basic human need.. and then in the same sentence they state they can't cut me off because it's a basic right. But they can profit from providing me with a basic necessity. It's madness.

 

The whole system is corrupt from the top down. Roll on a meritocratic society or a system where our elected leaders look after the interests of the masses and actually follow through with their pledges.

[unclebulgaria67]

If you have a metered water supply or have one fitted, you can control how much you use and if you are a low user, then you can keep the bills low.

 

I have long believed that the water supply industry should never has been privitised, as in most areas of the country you have no choice over the supplier. I think it is only in some parts of London where you have a choice of 2 suppliers.

 

What the water companies will tell you is that it costs a lot of money to maintain the UK's water and sewerage system, because much of it is very old. Then there are the costs of treating the water to make sure it meets the required health standards and dealing with all the sewerage waste. So yes they make a profit, but they also have a huge financially liability in the form of works they have to fund.

 

If you don't like living in the UK due to the way things work here, then move abroad. I have family living elsewhere in the world and it is not that different. Costs of water and other utilities are about the same, as far as I have been told.

[ploddertom]

If you have a metered water supply or have one fitted, you can control how much you use and if you are a low user, then you can keep the bills low.

 

 

Not necessarily true, last quarterly bill for my business premises showed water usage & sewerage charge as £2-16 the extra £40 or so were for standing charges.

[citizenB]

This thread is now in "General Legal Issues"

 

It is purely an administrative move.