VCS and Private residential parking

[djb79]

Hi all,

 

Need help, I lived in a flat owned by Derwent Living who employed VCS parking to patrol the residential parking. I had recieved numerous parking tickets in the past whilst driving my mums car (often lose the permit), but ignored the tickets as I wasn't tresspassing and was parked in may own parking bay. Later on someone started parking in my space so I parked in an unofficial communial parking area well out the way of everyone else and causing no nusance. Then VCS came along and slapped a a wheel clamp on the car and then asked for £1600 wanting money for previous tickets, didn't have the money so searched the flat and put in parking permit hoping that this would prove I was resident. The buggers towed it anyway complete with parking permit on full display then asked for £1860. Derwent Living's stance on the matter is its beween me and VCS parking. The only thing stated in the contract between me and Derwent was: Residents must show their parking permit at all times or be liable for any penalties or costs incured. Thats it.

 

Managed to raise the money through family to get the car back.

 

Would like to claim the money back but have been unable to get a solicitor (no one has replied to my emails). If I am going to represent myself in court what is my best legal argument. Probably best to keep it simple. I would prefair to go after VCS parking as l moved out a month later and never gave any notice, Derwent may also put in a counter claim for (made up) dilapidations, I dont trust them.

 

This all happend late October last year if this makes a difference. Had to move house get new job etc so had my head up my arse whilst I sorted things out.

 

Does anybody know which address I should write to for VCS parking to make the claim. What happens if I win, how do I then get the money back? Oh and I lost my contract with Derwent so do I need to obtain a copy. Does Derwent have any legal obligation to send proof of me being resident? I get the impression they want to stay well out of this.

 

All in all one fine mess.

Plz Help

 

Thanks

DB

[sailor sam]

Pity you didn't come here much sooner. Theya cannot legally tow your car against a debt without a court order. You could of reported it to the police. Mind you, they would of no doubt fobbed you off saying 'its a civil matter' but it isn't.

 

Your case will be based on the fcat that you have been issued penalty tickets and as such they cannot be recovered under english law. As a result VCS did illegally remove your without lawfull authority and insisted that you pay £1860 to them for release. As they had no right to hold your car to satisfy a civil debt without a court order and that you had to pay them £1860 under duress, you would like to claim a full refund plus consquential losses (any travel expnces incurred ect) plus interest (from the date they took your car) to the date of judgement. I'm not sure but you could also list the landlord as a co-respondent. before taking the above action, you will need to send an LBA (letter bfore action) to all respondents by recorded post. Send to VCS head office.

[ManxRed]

Firstly, Derwent are Principal in a Principal/Agent relationship with VCS so they ARE liable for this under the laws of Agency. You should let them know this in no uncertain terms. In fact any court action you take needs to include Derwent as 'jointly and severally liable' for their agents VCS. Did they clamp the car as it had no permit and then added on the unpiad tickets or did they just clamp for the unpaid tickets? Either way, clamping your car to secure a debt that has not been proven in court is illegal without a court warrant. You need to ask Derwent to ask VCS to produce this warrant (they won't have one).The fact that this happened in October makes no difference, you have six years to bring a civil claim. I would send a Notice Before Action to Derwent and VCS, stating that you want a full refund within 14 days or you will begin court proceedings. In the Notice Before Action, head it 'Notice Before Action' and state the facts, then state the reason why you believe their actions were unlawful (they need a court judgement and a court warrant in respect of the unpaid tickets before they can sieze goods in lieu). State that you hold Derwent jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agent VCS. Send the NBAs to their registered addresses (you can look these up for free on the Companies House website) addressed to the Company Secretary in both instances.

[crem]

Make sure you keep any paperwork that mentions words such as "penalty" or "fine". These words cannot be used by a PPC and/or landlord so you will already be half way to winning when you produce such documents in court. As ManxRed says, you must include the landlord in your claim, as win or lose, VCS will never pay you, the landlord can't dodge the bullet like they will so you'll get your money back off them.

[djb79]

Hi Guys,

 

Need a little help. I got clamped and then towed from Derwent Living premises where I was a resident and had a permit to park but hadn't displayed it on numerous occasions. With regards to parking the contract I had with Derwent it stipulated that I must adhere to the terms of parking or be liable for any costs or penalties. Thats it!

 

I sent a Notice Before Action letter to Derwent. This is what I sent:

 

Company Secretary 2, Billinge View

Vehicle Control services Limited Preston New Road

PO Box 4777 Blackburn

Sheffield Lancs

S11 8XR BB2 6PS

 

26th January 2012

Dear Sir/Madam

NOTICE BEFORE ACTION

On Thursday 27th October 2011 VCS Control Services Ltd, acting on behalf of Derwent Living, illegally towed my vehicle (reg: PN60 YXW) from my then home at 4 Regent Mews, Wollaton Street, Nottingham as a result of which action you illegally detained my vehicle. In order to get my vehicle back I paid the sum of £1,860, under duress, to VCS Control Services Ltd on Friday, 28th October.

Derwent Living are Principal in a Principal/Agent relationship with VCS Control Services Ltd so you are jointly and severally liable together with VCS Control Services Ltd, for this illegal action under the laws of Agency. I would like to point out that towing away and impounding a car to secure a debt (previous parking tickets), as in this instance, that has not been proven in court is illegal without a court warrant. I would also like to point out that my tenancy agreement with Derwent Living (clause 2.13) stipulates penalties as follows: "On schemes where there is a Car Park Agreement or Permit Parking in place to adhere to the terms of this agreement and be liable for any costs or penalties incurred if breached". However, this word "penalties" cannot be used by a private parking contractor and/or landlord in any contract and is unenforceable. Court rulings in this regard support my case – please see the attached sheet.

Should this matter go to court it would be the responsibility of Derwent Living to provide evidence to show that the costs of my not displaying my parking permit amounted to £1,860. Furthermore, I had reasonable grounds to be there as I was a paying tenant and thus no trespass had occurred. If Derwent Living cannot provide evidence to support the cost of the charge then I may have grounds for further civil action on the grounds of harassment under the Protection from Eviction Act, 1977. In addition, VCS Ltd had no right to go into my parking bay without prior permission granted by me twenty-four hours in advance as set out in the terms and conditions of the tenancy agreement. By knowingly allowing your agents to proceed with taking the car and asking for charges relating to my parking bay, Derwent Living have indicated that they were content to continue to allow their agents to ignore my statutory rights.

Therefore I would ask that you take the following action:

1) Provide me with the evidence that shows the cost incurred to Derwent Living regarding this matter amounts to £1,860 – please note that this does not include any costs incurred by VCS Ltd as they are a third party

 

2) Provide me with a copy of the warrant referred to in paragraph 2

 

Should you not be able to comply with either of these requests please refund the amount of £1,860 so as to reach me no later than fourteen days from the date of this letter. If I do not receive payment within this period I will issue proceedings for recovery of this amount without any further reference to you

Moreover, I reserve the right to broadcast the development of this case on Facebook, Twitter, The Consumer Action Group etc, etc, etc. However, Derwent Living can avoid any further action on my part by prompt repayment of the £1,860.

 

I have also forwarded a copy of this letter to VCS Ltd.

Yours faithfully

Damian J Berry

 

Derwent Living got in touch with their solicitors, it took three weeks to get a reply.

 

Which stated that the agreement I had with them was for the flat only. There is no referance to a parking space allocated to the flat. Even though they provided me with with a parking permit for my own parking space when I signed the contract and indeed it was Derwent that replaced the permit when it was due for renewal. What was a little more interesting was that they stated on about five different occasions that VCS parking are not acting as their agents. The reply I recieved states that I provided no explanation as to my contention regarding agency. Even though the parking notices they put up clearly sate that VCS parking are acting on behalf of the landowner. The landowner (Derwent) is stipulating that I had a seperate licence agreement for parking with VCS and that by not adhering to the terms of contract I am liable for parking charges governed by contract law and to be clamped and towed , the signs did say that: "In the event that more than one enforcement procedure is exercised i.e. a Parking Charge Notice is issued and a clamp is affixed, both charges will be payable".

 

So here are my querry's: what legally constitutes an agent??? If VCS parking are not acting as an agent for Derwent Living as the letter I got back from them clearly states (on numerous occassions) what are the legal implications for VCS clamping then towing my car and demanding £1860 for previous parking tickets to release it??? What law prevents VCS demanding money for previous parking tickets before releasing the car???

Can Derwent have an agreement with VCS that enables them to operate on their land without them being an an agent??? What should I do next??? How much extra compensation can I reasonably expect for all the agro, and my car being detained for two and a half days??? Do I need a solicitor for this???

 

Kind regards,

 

Damian

[crem]

This isn't my area of knowledge, but a few things I would note to get you started while waiting for the experts to pass through...

 

VCS are operating on private land therefore they are by definition acting on behalf of the landowner, ergo, the housing association are responsible for their actions. Carry on with your claim against Derwent.

 

You refer to a contract that mentions the word "penalties" regarding parking. Penalties are illegal under contract law, therefore if it was Derwent that referred to these, their contract is misleading and probably unlawful.

 

VSC claim on their sign that if clamped, all previous (alleged) charges must be paid. Again, it is unlawful to clamp, and charge, for previous alleged debts. Such debts must be claimed for in court for a judge to rule if they are payable or not.

[dx100uk]

you need to look in your T&C AT THE TIME OF TAKING ON THE RENTAL/HOME

 

if it does not say they can clamp etc etc

 

you'll win hands down

 

dx

[Old Snowy]

I'd hold fire on that LBA. It is a little too wordy, IMHO, and provides a number of hostages to fortune. An LBA should set out the facts and make clear the course of action you require of the parties to stay any legal action. It is not the forum for legal argument. Besides, Derwent will almost certainly have immediate access to legal advice and VCS certainly do (in the shape of Parvez Mirza, their Legal Manager) so their response is likely to focus on any gaps in your arguments rather than focussing on the facts and their legal exposure.

 

In addition, the address - if you intend to use it as is - appears to mix Derwent's and VCS's.

 

Let me see what can be done.

 

If VCS are contracted to manage Derwent's car parking issues by enforcing Derwent's T's & C's then they are an agent, plain and simple. If VCS have signs stating that they carry out this work - or from which it is reasonable to conclude that they do - and it is they who clamped your vehicle then it is for Derwent to prove that there is no relationship not for you to prove that there was.

 

For VCS to have acted lawfully then they can only have acted for a landowner. If they are to argue that the trespass to your vehicle was lawful then they cannot then argue - indeed are barred - from stating that they were not acting for Derwent unless it transpires that some intermediary sits between them.

[sailor sam]

Can we have an update please?

[djb79]

Update coming be patient

[djb79]

Hi all,

 

Need advice, I have a pending court case with my landlaord Derwent Living

 

On Thursday 27th October 2011 Vehicle Control Services Ltd (VCS), acting on behalf of Derwent Living clamped the car as I had not displayed my permit. I found the permit and correctly displayed it in the car

on the front windscreen. I then rang VCS to advise that no trespass had occurred and they could now remove the clamp. VCS then demanded a release fee of £1860 to remove the clamp, stating that the fee included payment for alleged parking offences. I refused payment then spoke to Derwent Living who said it had nothing to do with them and that it was a matter strictly between me and VCS. The following morning the car was towed away (even though the parking permit was correctly displayed) and I was forced to pay £1860 under duress. I contest that at no point in time did I ever enter into any agreement that would make me party to any agreement that would allow for any charges, clamping or towing relating to my vehicle. I consider the actions of Derwent Living and their agents to be in breach of my statutory rights as a tenant.

 

I am claiming for an amount of £1860 plus damages up to the value of £5000 for duress, harassment, unlawful eviction, trespass of the vehicle and financial inconvenience.

 

There was nothing in the tenancy agreement with regards to claming or towing! They have submiitted a defence, if anybody would care to take a look plz take a look and let me know if they think I should settle out of court!!! Also does the following mean I can't share this with anyone? Without prejudice save as to costs......

 

This incident is connected the thread: What legally constitutes an Agent? Is VCS parking an Agent for Derwent Living or not? The case between HMRC and VCS makes the issue clear but what about my claim for harrasment and unlawful eviction???

 

Would be happy to forward the particulars of my court claim and their defence but I kindly request an email address to send this too......

[dw190]

You can share it but not with the Court until after the hearing.

 

Without Prejudice save as to costs is a way of protecting their costs to the date of the offer should the Court find in your favour but award less than the Without Prejudice offer. The judge would then be made aware of the WP offer and would normally award their costs against you up to the date the offer was made.

 

You should consider the offer seriously if its any were near reasonable. Dont know the circumstances about the eviction so unable to comment.

[ploddertom]

Have merged all 3 threads together

[renegadeimp]

Can you post their defence?

[dx100uk]

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

*********************************************************

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

try www.pdfescape.com TO BLANK STUFF,

*************************************************************

or

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or use www.pdfmerge.com

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

 

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though dont use full bank names or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice dd-mm-yyyy TSB

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

.

dx

[djb79]

Hi DX

 

Without meaning to sound completly dumb but after reading through your instructions I'm am not entirely sure what to do....

 

"open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files"

 

Open a new msg box on this thread??? Like as in another reply, right??? Or am I supposed to use one of the other links below to some place else???

 

Also, what do mean.... Personal info??? Like name and address???

 

"BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc."

 

Personal info??? Like name and address??? Anything else???

 

Just want to be sure I'm doing this right.

 

Thanks for being patient

[dx100uk]

where you type to reply look bottom right

 

remove EVERY possible means of ID

all numbers bar code addresses etc etc

 

dx

[lamma]

"£1860 to remove the clamp" Is that a typo ? ? IF not this is outrageous. What terms does the lease contain re parking ? Is this "your" space ?. IF so the right to peaceful enjoyment is engaged. There is thread on here where a poster sued a PPC, and won, when it was "their" space. I suggest looking up that thread. What binds you legally to the permit scheme ? (If anything.) I would imagine that VCS would be very keen to settle this out of court. If VCS as taken the position, in writing such that it can be evidenced pr they do so while giving evidence on the day of the court case,, that £1860 is a valid 'charge' and that it is in fact "your" space then this http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/part/29 may well engage.

[renegadeimp]

Honestly, even if they offered to settle out of court, i would personally tell them NO and let a judge see what is going on. The reason companies like this settle out of court is because they dont want the authorities to see their unlawful business practices.