Shelty vs Bank of Ireland mortgages

[Shelty]

SAR sent today. From my records it looks like £4k+, but this doesn't appear to be as clear a process as on the banks & cc's that I've done, and I have to admit I'm struggling to get my head around some of the calculations I've seen on some of the threads.

I'll keep you posted on the progress.

[Les Gunn]

Hi Shelty,

 

Good luck with it all - if you have any questions, shout up - there's always somebody on hand to offer help. Plus our lovely resident law encyclopaedia (otherwise known as zootscoot!) is always there.

 

[Shelty]

acknowledged & cheque cashed dated 19/10

[zootscoot]

Good luck Shelty!

[Shelty]

BofI have provided all the info requested....tatty torn envelope arrived this morning. I've been through all the documents and found the following charges/fees and just wanted to be sure of what I can /can't claim back. Any help gratefully recieved;

 

ERC.....yes

 

But I'm not sure about;

SAR fee £10

Mortgage acceptance fee £280

Second charge questionaire £65

Sealing admin fee upon redemption £145

Admin fee for arranging own contents insurance & not taking theirs £25

 

Thanks in advance !

Shelty.

[paulpb123]

Hi Shelty,

It might be worth including all of the above and getting them to justify how the charges were calculated. Cheeky to include an admin fee because you didn't take their insurance! Best of luck.

[zootscoot]

Hi Shelty

 

S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) fee £10 - If fast track the yes if small claims no

Mortgage acceptance fee £280- no - not related to breach of contract

Second charge questionaire £65 - No - not related to a breach of contract

Sealing admin fee upon redemption £145 - Yes

Admin fee for arranging own contents insurance & not taking theirs £25- NO fee for a service unrelated to a breach of contract.

 

 

All the best

 

Zoot

[Shelty]

Initial request sent today

[Shelty]

Response to initial request. Looking into it etc...

 

If nothing else, excellent customer service responding within 24 hours, see if they come back with a "result" before the LBA and MCOL stages

[alanfromderby]

Admin fee for arranging own contents insurance & not taking theirs £25- NO fee for a service unrelated to a breach of contract.

 

 

Just a thought on this. Even though it could be deemed as a fee for a service, how much has that service cost BOI. Remember that this has not been negotiated individually, and therefore must be "reasonable".

 

It has been suggested that a 100% mark-up would be reasonable for a High Street business. Therefore, if this service cost them £5 (for arguments sake), then a charge of £10 would be okay, but £25 could be considered as unreasonable.

 

It is also worth noting that many people opted out of using their mortgage company insurance provider, after it was ruled that it was unfair to force customers to buy these over-priced policies when cheaper options were available.

 

On that basis, my inclination would be to challenge the building society to justify this charge.

[zootscoot]

Remember that this has not been negotiated individually, and therefore must be "reasonable".

 

 

 

On what grounds must it be reasonable? If you are referring to s.15 SGA that only applies where the fee is not specified in the contract whereas generally mortgage offers will specify the fee for this service

[alanfromderby]

I would agree that if the charge is in the original contract then it is fine, however if the contract was pre-2002/3 then I would not expect it to have such a charge itemised, as prior to then it was considered to be part of the agreement that the insurance was arranged through the mortgage company.

[Shelty]

What looks like a st'd rejection letter, saying I agreed to the terms etc and claiming that

"we have based our costings on the expectation we would continue to recieve interest payments from you for the full period. However as the mortgage was redeemed 14 months early as ERC was levied in accordance with the agreed terms. Although we would again emphasise that the ERC is not calculated entirley on this basis, by taking into consideration that a further 14 payments woudl have been due, you would have paid approx £8.6k for the remaining term. As the amount of £3.9k was incurred as the ERC, does not exceed what the bank would have expected to recieve in the normal course of the operation of your mortgage a/c we do not feel that this fee would be deemed unlawful"

 

Followed by....and it gets better !!....

"Our fees and charges have not been arrived at without a great deal of thought and analysis of our costings. We regularly review our fees ansd do not accept that the level of the admin' charge or that the ERC that you have incurred was unfair or unjustified"

 

As you'd expect they sent a copy of the fees leaflet & a copy of my mortgage offer. So what now ? LBA straight away or wait for the 2 weeks?

[Shelty]

checked my dates & 2 weeks is up tomorrow, so LBA printed done.

[Shelty]

Been made an offer........a whole £35 in return for a £4k claim...is that the most outrageous offer ever ?!!

MCOL at over the next few days, when I get time of course.

[alanfromderby]

Not much Christmas spirit on offer there then!

[Shelty]

MCOL issued today for the ERC of £3916 + interest at 8% pa

[zootscoot]

Good luck Shelty!

[Shelty]

confirmation that they intend to defend the claim

[Shelty]

Defence & AQ recieved. Looks the same as LTWFB's;

1. Admit that I had the a/c

2. Admit the amount & type of a/c

3,4 & 5. List of conditions that applied & confirmation of rates etc

6. Admit that I redeemed the a/c in May 2003, and that included the ERC

7. Deny the ERC is unenforcable or invalid as alleged in the POC

8. Claim that that I'm time barred in bringing the claim pursuant to Sec 5 and 14A of the limitations act, because Dec 06 (date of claim) is after the expiry of 6 years from the date of mortgage (July 99) and is more thanm 3 years after the date of redemption (May 03)

 

So, not it would appear that there's not a lot of substance to the defence. Any thoughts ??

[Shelty]

Zoot, I'm completing the AQ, and have seen the template for form N150 in the library section, but in the "other info" section, I recognise the terms of the arguement from other AQ's I've completed, but there isn't anything relating to their wanting the claim thrown out due to the length of time etc. How should I amend this to best effect ?

Deadline for the AQ is the 5th Feb.

 

Thanks in advance

Shelty.

[lickthewallfatboy]

zoot is working on this for me-hopefully we'll arive at something soon....

[Shelty]

any thoughts on the AQ Zoot ?

[Shelty]

copy of their AQ recieved, they have asked for this to be Fast Track, even though it's under the £5k threshold, but they've failed to put any reasons as to why they want it not to go on "small claims" as this would be the normal track becuase of the value. Any ideas ??

No list of directions, no witnesses, also estimate 1/2 day ,and that their costs will be £2-£2.5k. (£300 currently).

They intend to apply to have the claim struck out, although no further detail is given.

 

I have until 5th to submit my AQ. Is there any text which I can submit in the "Other information" section to assist ?

[paulpb123]

Hi Shelty,

This is what I put in my 'other info', that way you are covering their fast track argument. You might want to alter it a bit and say that your claim is well within the small claims limit, and make any other changes that might be appropriate to your claim.

 

I am respectfully requesting that my claim be allocated to the small claims track. This issue is not a complicated one; it is an issue of fact and not of law. The issue is only whether the money levied by the Defendant in respect of its customer's contractual breaches exceeded their actual costs incurred. The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 apply to my mortgage agreement because I am a consumer and the terms of the mortgage were not freely negotiated as it amounted to one of the defendant’s standard packages offered. Under paragraph 1(e) of schedule 2 this specifically includes terms which have the object of requiring any consumer, who fails his/her obligation, to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation.I would vigorously contend that the fee of £9,750 was a disproportionate sum and was in fact a penalty charge and therefore irrecoverable in common law. I would further advise the Court that I derived no special terms or benefits (for example "cashback" or reduced interest rates) from this mortgage agreement. The Defendants have consistently refused to provide proof that the charges they imposed on my account are a true reflection of their actual losses and costs in relation to my account with them. Accordingly, I would respectfully ask that the court in this case, not withstanding allocation to the small claims track, order standard disclosure. I understand that it is in the courts discretion to do so. I believe this would bring a rapid end to this litigation.

 

Best of luck

Paul