PPI on store card with Debenhams (now Santander)

[StMartinsTerr]

Been looking to reclaim PPI for my wife. Amongst a few others she had a Debenhams card which was repaid in full in 2003 or 2004. My wife doesn't have all statements, but those we have show £45 per month account cover premiums.

 

Those "nice" people at Santy have now replied to an initial letter (not using any CAG templates etc) saying effectively "it's too old, we no longer hold the records for that account, go away".

 

My question is what are the record keeping requirements on them - how long do they have to keep this information? I don't want to waste money on an SAR if they have binned everything and done so legitimately.

 

Thanks

[ims21]

If the account was closed and paid off more than six years ago then they may well have destroyed the data as they do not have to keep it for more than six years after the ending of the contract/agreement.

[ims21]

You could of course put in a claim for the amounts for which you have the evidence and you will need to send them copy statements.

 

What reasons did you give for the mis-sale?

[StMartinsTerr]

Added automatically and no explanation of product (most likely it was done at the till point and no doubt pre-filled by the assistant etc).

 

Thing is we don't actually recall how long it was in existence, and although at £45 per month for the few we have that would be welcome, we'd hate to miss out on something more simply for the lack of asking the right questions etc.

 

Would estimates be permissible, where we know the account was live etc? I think my wife paid minimum repayments for a while, so there was a core balance that didn't change much from month to month, but I do accept that proving it is another thing.

 

Thanks

[ims21]

Well my view is "nothing ventured, nothing gained".

 

There is no reason why you can't go for estimates based on the evidence you have. I would write back to them and say here's the evidence (enclosing copies of statements) and the basis on which you are calculating your estimates.

 

If they still refuse you can always ask fos to have a look at it.

[StMartinsTerr]

Found some more statements now - and can make reasonable estimates of several other months (initially we had only last 2 or 3 months), but have decided to send SAR anyway based on COI model wording. Also come across several statements and applications for other accounts / cards / loans, so could soon have about 6 in play.

 

How should I approach in the case of loans with PPI added at outset, where it is possible / probable the loan was replaced part way through with another PPI enhanced loan, although I cannot verify / prove that (and the lender may not be able to prove it either)? Do I claim for all, and it is up to the lender to show early repayment / crediting of premiums?

[ims21]

How should I approach in the case of loans with PPI added at outset, where it is possible / probable the loan was replaced part way through with another PPI enhanced loan, although I cannot verify / prove that (and the lender may not be able to prove it either)? Do I claim for all, and it is up to the lender to show early repayment / crediting of premiums?

 

SAR the lender and have a read of No.1 in my signature.

[StMartinsTerr]

These go back 15 - 20 years. The loan agreements (we have the customer copies) overlap in the sense of dates. Loan 1 for 36 months, and loan 2 starts after say 34 months, but as I don't have statements etc and the memory is a bit hazy I suspect that loan 1 was included and consolidated, but cannot determine this or verify either way. As we've already hit the 6 year data retention issue elsewhere, and assuming the SAR is silent on the issue, how do we proceed? Do we claim as if Loan 1 ran the full course, and tackle Loan 2 on its own merits per the agreement. I appreciate that where we have evidence of refinancing, Loan 2 includes some of Loan 1's unpaid PPI, as well as it's own!

[ims21]

What I would do then is submit a mis-selling claim for each loan and send them copies of the agreements.

 

Let them make a suggestion as to any offer of redress.

 

You can then take a view on whether you feel the offer is reasonable and if not ask them for their detailed breakdown on ow they have calculated it. That may give you some more ammunition if you wish to challenge them.

[StMartinsTerr]

I assume that I could send in my own calculations done using the very useful spreadsheets found on this site, rather than "trust" the lenders to get it correct, or would that be dangerous in view of the possible refinancing? Would it make any difference if when sending my calculations, I made it clear that they are on the basis that the loan(s) ran their full term, and thus inviting the lender to provide evidence demonstrating the opposite?

 

Have found a case where Loan from lender A with PPI was refinanced with lender B (yup, with more of that PPI) about 1/3rd of the way into the intended term. In view of different lenders, I presume I'll need to treat each as standalone (sorry if some of this sounds basic, but want to be as sure as I can be as we'll be battling on several fronts very soon plus I'm trying to get everything organised whilst I have some spare time).

[ims21]

You can send in your own calculations but in this particular case there are many unknowns.

 

You don't know whether any or all of the loans were refinanced.

 

You don't have records of the monthly repayments and the dates of each payment.

 

You don't have details of any of the settlement figures on the loans (if they were settled early).

 

You don't have any details of any PPI rebates that may have been given on settlement (if any of the loans were refinanced and/or settled early).

 

While the banks may say they don't hold records beyond six years, we know that they do and with PPI calculations they may come up with some records that you are assuming that they don't have.

 

So it is going to be very difficult for you to prepare accurate figures given the unknowns. It is up to you of course because you can always challenge any offer they might make if you feel it is incorrect.

 

If there were different lenders involved then yes, you treat them as "stand alone" loans.

[StMartinsTerr]

Am pretty confident about the monthly repayments and dates, as the loan agreements state these clearly (OK some may be a day or two out e.g. I'm sure a loan repayment wasn't taken on 25 Dec for example), but agree that refinance and what if any refund of PPI was given is mostly vague (have since found more paperwork for one lender with settlement data on when at least 2 loans were refinanced), hence me trying to determine the best way to approach it now assuming that the SAR requests come back blank / restricted to last 6 years given the age of these loans.

 

NB really appreciate your help here