Interesting read re:IDS

[Dilizjo]

Very interesting read:

http://mikesivier.wordpress.com/2012/11/26/iain-duncan-smiths-question-time-lies-exposed/

[estellyn]

Thanks, that was interesting.

[joeski]

IDS is going down

[45002]

One thing IDS keeps forgetting is the problem with IB started under John Major government trying to fiddle unemployment figures by telling people to go and see there doctor and get signed off onto SB/IB for the smallest of problems....

 

And IDS also forgets that the problem with DLA started under Marget Thacher government bring in self assessment...

 

IDS is trying to fix problems a Tory government stated in the 1st place and what did the Labour government do in between !

 

Bloody politicians love playing the blame game and can only ever think 5 years ahead and Not the long term..............

Edited November 26, 2012 by 45002

[westfield]

Lies damn lies and statistics. That is the problem. You can make almost any set of figures give you the answer you want. Take 100 households where one person has always worked and another has never. You have 100% of households in work and 0% that have never worked but you also get 100% of households that have someone who has never worked.

The benefits system is broken and doesn't work but for political reasons no one has ever had the balls to fix it. IDS is trying to do that and i think he believes in what he is doing. Of course no one on benefit wants to lose any money so hence we get statistic after statistic proving one side or the other. However there is no doubt that dla is abused. I have two neighbours who both have mobility cars yet do not fit the high rate mobility criteria. Then i know people who are really unable to walk but do not qualify or get low rate and are too scared to ask for reassessment. Equally,if i live alone i would fit the descriptions for at least low rate care,but if i live with someone it would be much more difficult to prove.

[Nystagmite]

However there is no doubt that dla is abused. I have two neighbours who both have mobility cars yet do not fit the high rate mobility criteria. Then i know people who are really unable to walk but do not qualify or get low rate and are too scared to ask for reassessment. Equally,if i live alone i would fit the descriptions for at least low rate care,but if i live with someone it would be much more difficult to prove.

 

How do you know these people don't fit the HRM criteria? It's possible to get HRM and walk. It doesn't matter whether you live alone - you just have to prove that you have care needs.

[westfield]

I know because i know what the criteria are and also know they haven't claimed under the special rules.

That is exactly what i was saying,it is harder to prove you need certain care needs when you are not living alone,such as eating,getting up,getting dressed,going out,shopping. Every one of those is an issue for me when i am alone but with encouragement that i get when my oh is around i do those things.

[unclebulgaria67]

The problem I have with this whole debate is that the statistics that are released are not actual numbers of people claiming benefits. They are estimates, which begs the question as to why the DWP don't know the actual numbers in receipt of benefits on the date official statistics are due.

 

We have something like 38 million people in this country of working age i.e 16-65 years of age and there are currently 29.5 million people in work, but some of the 29.5 million counted, will be people with multiple jobs. So you probably have well over 10 million people who do not work officially. There is no way that the UK economy will ever create the number of jobs required to provide a living wage to the numbers of people who could work. A number of people I know had nice stable jobs 5 years ago and are now trying to get by doing a number of part-time jobs. There are now about 800,000 people on zero hours contracts, who get a text message, when they are required, causing their incomes to be variable, with some months not enough pay to get by. Many people are now on fixed term contracts for short periods. There are also many people who are s/employed and living on very low incomes.

 

If the government wants to help, then it has to sort out employment rights of people and incentivise companies to take on more people on a living wage. It is ridiculous that in the UK that real term incomes of people are only on a par with what they were in the 1970's after you strip out inflation. We will never be able to compete with cheaper Labour economies such as those in Eastern Europe and Asia and we should not try to do so. We have much higher living costs, so need wages to be commensurate to meet these costs.

 

If IDS was being totally truthful, he would say that he wants more people back in work, so the government has less of a burden and cannot guarantee that people will be better off. But he will never say this.

[westfield]

Maybe a question is,why do we need lifestyles greater than that of the 70s. We expect standards of living to increase year on year along with corporate profits. Maybe it is just wrong. Maybe we should all be paid say 20000 and those with more talent do it for the good of society. Not much chance.

[antone]

Maybe a question is,why do we need lifestyles greater than that of the 70s. We expect standards of living to increase year on year along with corporate profits. Maybe it is just wrong. Maybe we should all be paid say 20000 and those with more talent do it for the good of society. Not much chance.

 

Is this relevant in some way?

[estellyn]

Maybe a question is,why do we need lifestyles greater than that of the 70s. We expect standards of living to increase year on year along with corporate profits. Maybe it is just wrong. Maybe we should all be paid say 20000 and those with more talent do it for the good of society. Not much chance.

 

I believe that's close to communism, which is a valid viewpoint, but has been shown to work even worse than capitalism does. Sadly, humanity has devolved to a point where any type of egalitarianism doesn't work.

[westfield]

Is this relevant in some way?

It is relevant to the post by unglebulgaria.

[westfield]

I believe that's close to communism, which is a valid viewpoint, but has been shown to work even worse than capitalism does. Sadly, humanity has devolved to a point where any type of egalitarianism doesn't work.

It may well be close to communism and i agree just as capitalism doesn't work neither does communism. Maybe a mixture of the two as i believe Lenin tried but was ruined by Stalin.

Whichever way you look at it we are screwed

[unclebulgaria67]

It may well be close to communism and i agree just as capitalism doesn't work neither does communism. Maybe a mixture of the two as i believe Lenin tried but was ruined by Stalin.

Whichever way you look at it we are screwed

 

China are doing pretty well and I think Russia will also do well in the future. The thing with communism and state control of resources is that they have been able to control how quickly their natural resources have been consumed. Yes it meant that most people are relatively poor compared with the west, but this is changing. At some stage China could overtake the US, as the worlds largest economy and Russia is gradually spreading the wealth to more of their people.

 

Europe will be in a mess for decades, while the rest of the world moves on. The US are looking at South America and Asia as their main market places, with Europe becoming less important to them. Obama spends a lot less time dealing with Europe, than previous presidents. I suppose for the US to stand any chance of reducing their debts, they have to make deals where the money is and that aint Europe.

[estellyn]

It may well be close to communism and i agree just as capitalism doesn't work neither does communism. Maybe a mixture of the two as i believe Lenin tried but was ruined by Stalin.

Whichever way you look at it we are screwed

 

I don't know. My limited understanding of current China, is that their communism capitalism mix may be doing well for the country as a whole, but is still leading to the very well off and the very poor. Corruption is rife, and people are becoming more and more wealth grabbing and materialistic - sound familiar?

 

I think we're screwed until we evolve past materialism and need for wealth and power......or we have some sort of global apocalypse that wipes out infrastructure and forces us to start again. Until then, all I see is society going downhill, with ever more greed, and ever diminishing concern for fellow human beings. Propaganda is put out to alienate people from eachother, make people suspicious of their neighbours, and even promote hate.

[LaughingGirl]

That's very a very depressing assessment estellyn, but I have to confess to having similar thoughts myself.

[count orlok]

I've been "parked" on IB for over ten years (18 when you include time on invalidity benefit and ESA Care group).

 

When i became unable to do my normal job I went onto Invalidity Benefit and when DLA was introduced I got that as well. This enabled me to go back into education and to university in order to get work i could do.

 

Later on my Invalidity benefit turned into the much maligned IB. After Uni I started doing voluntary work in the area i had graduated, this being made possible by my Motability car.

 

Unfortunately after being "parked" for about 8 years my heart gave out. Since then I have been in hospital many times for heart operations and checkups, with more to come (provided i don't die from one). During this time my car has taken me to hospital etc.

 

During all this time I was far from invisible and being left without being seen. While on Invalidity benefit i used to see my doctor every 3 months for a check up and sick note. When it became IB I was no longer seen by my doctor in relation to benefits, although I was a regular visitor with heart problems. I was though seen by a DWP doctor every couple of years, and also was seen by Job Centre staff in relation to returning to work on more than one occasions. I even went on an A4e course (but that was a complete waste of time and nowhere as good as the Job Centre).

 

It wasn't until the A4e course that i finally accepted I probably won't work any more; when I originally went on the course I thought it was for them to help me find suitable work considering my condition. Little did i realise they would trash all the work i had done at Uni and say that unless i was going to work as a telephone monkey or some other mind numbing job, I had no chance of working.

 

Never mind I still had means of getting out and would be getting retirement benefits soon. Things weren't too bad. Or at least that's what I thought. Que IDS and the millionaire boys club. Time to my retirement has more than doubled to over ten years and I face the prospect of spending them housebound (unless they take that as well) with no benefits at all (because I don't believe ATOS will cure me even though they will claim they have).

[count orlok]

Oh yea and as for DLA, it may be based on self assessment, but all this was checked with one's doctor or specialist and if they could not provide enough evidence a DWP doctor would be called.

 

It is also possible for people that do not "look disabled" to have serious medical conditions. People needed worry though, under the new rules any body that can move themselves, whether by dragging themselves along the floor or wheeling a few car lengths before exhaustion will not longer get a free car. Only those who cannot move themselves will get one (so long as they are not too badly disabled, as they won't get it either). So they will need a driver all the time otherwise the car will be no good.

 

And they reckon "only" 100,000 are going to loose their cars. I think they'll find it's a lot more then that, with many who still get the mobility component deciding to use taxis, with the consequential damage to the British car industry.

Edited November 28, 2012 by count orlok

[count orlok]

And I thought Maggie was evil, compared to this bunch she was Mother Teresa.

[dpick]

However there is no doubt that dla is abused. I have two neighbours who both have mobility cars yet do not fit the high rate mobility criteria. Then i know people who are really unable to walk but do not qualify or get low rate and are too scared to ask for reassessment. Equally,if i live alone i would fit the descriptions for at least low rate care,but if i live with someone it would be much more difficult to prove.

 

Westfield I cannot agree with you with this I am one of those people who have a mobility car and appear to have nothing wrong with them. I walk to my car and then drive away to shop. What you do not see is me picking up my niece to do the shopping for me or the number of pain killing injections I have to have or the number of times I go to hospital for treatment where my niece has to get me a wheelchair as I cannot walk the distance from car-park to hospital department. A lot of people have problems that do not mean that they have to be permanently in a wheel chair or that they have to walk with a limp, nobody talks about the days that I don't appear outside my home, or when my niece has to take my wife out as i am unable to.

 

dpick