CSA Bailiff Problem

[daz3210]

I have a minor problem with bailiffs appointed by the CSA.

 

Firstly I have made a complaint (form 4) about the behaviour of the bailiff, after he told me to stop playing games when I asked for a copy of the order which gave him authority to act.

 

Secondly, I think his fees are not quite in accordance with the regulations, if due at all.

 

Short story is the CSA claimed to have a court order against me obtained in March. I knew nothing about this until a bailiff firm contacted me. I have since paid the sum claimed as due, following a letter from CSA saying what was acceptable to them as settlement.

 

The bailiff firm claim that settlement did not include their fees.

 

I have it in writing from them that the Enforcement regulations allow them to charge £67.44, but they are looking to add communication charges and rounding up, which is 'as agreed with the CSA by them'

 

I am now under threat of a claim for costs as a result of the form 4 complaint.

 

So, two questions:-

 

1. Can a bailiff claim costs if a form 4 complaint is not upheld?

2. How do you settle a small amount dispute on costs? County court fee for assessment is £325 I am told, which is excessive for a £10 dispute.

[unclebulgaria67]

Hopefully others more informed will be along. I have only been told that it can be a very costly mistake to make a form 4 complaint and therefore should only be used in extreme cases. Depending on what the behaviour was, you might choose to withdraw the form 4 complaint and instead just pay them the £67.44, as full settlement of the fees due under the enforcement regulations.

 

This does not stop you then making a formal complaint in writing to the CSA, in which you can include full details of the behaviour of the bailiff.

[daz3210]

He told me to stop playing games when I asked for a copy of the order (for about the tenth time).

 

He also levied on my mothers car.

 

Complaint relates to both.

 

I sent a cheque for £67.44 in full and final settlement of the financial aspects, it has been returned as unacceptable.

[unclebulgaria67]

He told me to stop playing games when I asked for a copy of the order (for about the tenth time).

 

He also levied on my mothers car.

 

Complaint relates to both.

 

I sent a cheque for £67.44 in full and final settlement of the financial aspects, it has been returned as unacceptable.

 

Do you know which court licensed this particular bailiff ? If so, have you contacted them to make a complaint, to see if they can help resolve, without it needing the form 4 consequences ?

[daz3210]

Do you know which court licensed this particular bailiff ? If so, have you contacted them to make a complaint, to see if they can help resolve, without it needing the form 4 consequences ?

 

I rang the court in question, they told me I needed Form 4. They didn't mention any alternatives.

[unclebulgaria67]

I rang the court in question, they told me I needed Form 4. They didn't mention any alternatives.

 

For the amount involved, I would suggest that you withdraw the form 4 complaint and instead write to the head office of the bailiff company to make the complaint.

[daz3210]

OK, I will withdraw the complaint then. Is there a specific manner in which to do this (e.g. is it permissible for me to simply write that on the basis of I do not want to be stung by costs I withdraw the complaint, but without acceptance that the complaint was not valid, but simply that it should cease).

 

Then what happens if the bailiff company refuse to deal with the matter. They have suggested that they will proceed with levying goods if I don't pay what they state is due, unless I apply for taxation (and they will know what the fee is I guess)

[unclebulgaria67]

OK, I will withdraw the complaint then. Is there a specific manner in which to do this (e.g. is it permissible for me to simply write that on the basis of I do not want to be stung by costs I withdraw the complaint, but without acceptance that the complaint was not valid, but simply that it should cease).

 

Then what happens if the bailiff company refuse to deal with the matter. They have suggested that they will proceed with levying goods if I don't pay what they state is due, unless I apply for taxation (and they will know what the fee is I guess)

 

If I were you I would pick up the phone to the court in question and say that when you spoke to someone they had not informed you of the cost consequences of a form 4 complaint. Therefore ask them what they require to withdraw the complaint, so you can raise a complaint in a different way, without the cost consequences. They may just require a letter or email.

 

When you write to the bailiffs head office, make it clear to them that you will continue with the complaint through the appropriate authorities, if they don't resolve it.

 

I would also suggest that you write to the CSA about your experience and perhaps when you write to the bailiffs, you can enclose a copy of the letter.

 

As for the bailiffs office dealing, I suspect that they are currently not taking this any further, as they have other cases on the go. Perhaps the court has already told them of the form 4 complaint.

[daz3210]

Oh, they are more than aware of the Form 4. The reason for my post today is that I today received a letter from them, telling me that they are currently calculating what their costs application will be, and inviting me to drop the complaint to avoid the costs.

 

I am not aware of more then one office for the bailiff, and the correspondence has come from the 'Complaints Manager', makes me wonder how many complaints they receive then! The firm in question has many mentions on here already, so seems shady to say the least.

 

What I am worried about is that the letter from the bailiff firm today says their man denies saying what he did say. If I repeat that in a complaint to CSA am I committing libel or slander or anything? If it helps, my mother has told me today she was earwigging behind the door and heard most of the conversation I had with the chap on the doorstep.

[unclebulgaria67]

Oh, they are more than aware of the Form 4. The reason for my post today is that I today received a letter from them, telling me that they are currently calculating what their costs application will be, and inviting me to drop the complaint to avoid the costs.

 

I am not aware of more then one office for the bailiff, and the correspondence has come from the 'Complaints Manager', makes me wonder how many complaints they receive then! The firm in question has many mentions on here already, so seems shady to say the least.

 

What I am worried about is that the letter from the bailiff firm today says their man denies saying what he did say. If I repeat that in a complaint to CSA am I committing libel or slander or anything? If it helps, my mother has told me today she was earwigging behind the door and heard most of the conversation I had with the chap on the doorstep.

 

There is no problem with the CSA complaint letter. As long as it your true evidence of what took place.

 

You could write back saying that you will consider withdrawing the form 4 complant and not taking the matter futher elsewhere, if they apologise for any mistakes that may have happened and waive their fees as a gesture of goodwill. If they agree to this by x date, you will withdraw the form 4 complaint.

[daz3210]

There is no problem with the CSA complaint letter. As long as it your true evidence of what took place.

 

You could write back saying that you will consider withdrawing the form 4 complant and not taking the matter futher elsewhere, if they apologise for any mistakes that may have happened and waive their fees as a gesture of goodwill. If they agree to this by x date, you will withdraw the form 4 complaint.

 

Already done that, they said no, and their claim for costs will follow.

[daz3210]

And to add, an apology is all I want

[wonkeydonkey]

Why give way to what can clearly be seen as' blackmail' obviously they have not given any consideration to the fact your Form 4 complaint could be upheld!! as to costs, if it goes against you and they present a bill of costs you can appeal them secure in the knowledge you have no assets and it is a fact can't get blood out of a stone!!!!!

 

WD

[outlawla]

I wouldn't trust a Judge with a form 4 complaint as far as I could throw him personally. I may have been unlucky, but the Circuit Judge who dealt with one I submitted was as bent as a nine bob note.

Edited October 26, 2012 by outlawla

[ploddertom]

An honest opinion from what you have said so far.

 

I don't think you have enough to go for a Form 4 and agree it should be withdrawn - should just be a simple matter of writing a letter. In its place however I would actually submit a letter to the Certificating Court outlining your grievances against the said Bailiff, this will lie on his file and should there be any others when it comes time for renewal then he may well be out of a job.

 

Ask the CSA if you have discharged the Liability Order in full. If so then I would probably be tempted to tell the Bailiffs to do one. After all if there is no LO then they have nothing to go on.

[daz3210]

What about any fees they claim to be outstanding? Can they come back for them?

 

Or do they have to go through court to enforce them?

[brassnecked]

What about any fees they claim to be outstanding? Can they come back for them?

 

Or do they have to go through court to enforce them?

If CSA say liability is discharged, then I would think that the bailiffs would have to sue for them in County Court, and swear that all are kosher, they may well be reluctant to do this, but others will know more.

[daz3210]

They are currently challenging me to apply for 'taxation'.

 

I've looked at that, it costs £325 it seems.

[ploddertom]

The Bailiff derives his power from the Liability Order, if the LO is discharged he has no power, which is why you need the CSA to confirm it is discharged, Following on from the taxation issue have they actually given you a breakdown of the fees they are allegedly claiming?

[daz3210]

Yes.

 

Communication Fee £10.00

Bailiff Attendance £67.44

 

Added up to £77.44, rounded up to £78.00

 

I have sent them a cheque in full and final settlement of £67.44, which they returned as not acceptable.

 

They have sent me a copy of the Regulations, which I agree suggests that they may be due £67.44, but they say in addition they also have an 'agreement what they may charge'

Edited October 26, 2012 by daz3210

[daz3210]

I also have a letter from the CSA saying pay £213.00 to settle the order. I paid this direct to CSA so should I write to the CSA asking for confirmation that it is settled?

[unclebulgaria67]

Yes ask them to confirm that following payment any liability order has been fully discharged.

[daz3210]

Will do that.

 

In the meanwhile, is there any way to stop them taking it further?

[unclebulgaria67]

Will do that.

 

In the meanwhile, is there any way to stop them taking it further?

 

While the form 4 threat is there, I suspect that they won't be doing anything.

 

Get the CSA confirmation and send a copy to the bailiffs, saying any liability order had already been settled, so there is no basis for continued enforcement. Advise the bailiffs that you would bring their behaviour to the attention of the courts, if they continued the matter further. Ask them to confirm that they will cease to continue with the matter and on receipt of their confirmation letter, you will withdraw the form 4 complaint. Point out to them, that it was the court, who had suggested the form 4 complaint, when you explained what had happened.

[ploddertom]

Yes.

 

Communication Fee £10.00

Bailiff Attendance £67.44

 

Added up to £77.44, rounded up to £78.00

 

I have sent them a cheque in full and final settlement of £67.44, which they returned as not acceptable.

 

They have sent me a copy of the Regulations, which I agree suggests that they may be due £67.44, but they say in addition they also have an 'agreement what they may charge'

 

Which Regulations are they quoting from?