Vodafone Mast Down since 2nd Sept - Still no service - Can I cancel contract under SOGA?

[reallyinthecrap]

Hello,

 

I was looking for some advice.

 

After being a happy Vodafone customer for over 20 years I am now at the point where I am totally fed up with their network and customer service to such and extent I am going to try and cancel my contract on the grounds they have breached their Terms & Conditions.

 

This year, not only I, but hundreds of local customers of Vodafone suffered a loss of signal for 3 weeks due to a fault with the local mast.

 

And today, we are now on our 10th day of loss of signal due to another fault.

 

I have contacted their customer services on 4 occasions so far and each time they are telling me that they cannot tell me when the fault will be fixed and have said:

 

"However, I can see that it has been discussed with the manager and would like to request you to get back to us once it start working and we will help you with the compensation of 50% monthly line rental of those days on pro rata basis."

 

Quite honestly, I am so fed up with being treated this way I am determined to end my relationship with Vodafone and move to another provider.

 

I have read their Terms & Conditions and they state:

 

3. Services and coverage

a) We strive to give you the services when you want them. However, due to the nature of mobile technology, it’s impossible to provide a completely fault-free service.

 

I am frankly amazed at the wording of this - how can they quantify "strive"???

 

Obviously this will end up in court if I stop paying my rental but has anyone got any experience of fighting their T&Cs based on the fact that they are not "striving" hard enough?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

[locutus]

I'd say your best bet for getting resolution here is to get the webteam involved. Follow this advice:

Hi CAG members,

We thought it would be nice to introduce ourselves and to assure you all that our presence on CAG is with the very best of intentions.

vodafone UK has recently introduced a dedicated Web Relations Team which is keen to seek out customers who’re having difficulties with their accounts and feel that they have no other place to turn to than CAG and other consumer forums and blogs.

Naturally, it’s not possible for us to help directly with account specific queries on CAG and as such we would encourage those members who feel we can help them to contact us privately at customer.care@help.vodafone.co.uk quoting ‘WRT135 – CAG Forum’ in the subject line to ensure that it reaches the Web Relations Team.

When emailing us we would also ask that you either provide us with a link to your post or thread – if you’ve posted in another member’s thread please also provide your CAG username so that we can check what your query is.

 

Once you receive an automated reply, update this thread with the reference number.

 

I am surprised they've not offered a "vodafone sure signal box" to cover you for this outage tho. Lets see what the webteam come back with.

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

Hi reallyinthecrap,

 

It's a shame to hear that you're considering leaving us after being a customer for such a long time.

 

To enable us to assist you further in regard to the network concerns you've raised I'd initially recommend following the guidance provided on our eForum here.

 

In the event that the fault is already logged in our Faults Board here could you provide me with a link to the relevant thread so I can get things looked into further?

 

Naturally we wouldn't want to loose you as a customer and so to discuss matters further could you follow locutus's advice and email me via the Contact us form here quoting the code WRT135 - CAG Forum in the subject line?

 

Once sent you'll receive an automated reply with a reference number. To ensure that it reaches me could you update the thread with this and I'll get back to you as soon as possible?

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

 

 

[reallyinthecrap]

Hi David,

 

It's Trev from Dinas Powys.

 

I share your frustration and have a long email thread open with vodafone since first reporting this fault on 3/9/2012.

 

At every point VF have been unable to tell me when this fault with be resolved and I too am suffering badly from the lack of service.

 

I have emailed Vodafone and requested they release me from my contract. Which they have refused outright without me paying a £500 early termination fee...

 

Question to the forum...

 

Do you think I can use the SOGA to get out of my contract?

 

I have stated the following in my email:

 

"I am cancelling my contact as you have failed to provide a service based on your implied Terms & Conditions under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 section 14(2b)(a)."

 

Do I have a water tight argument please?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated..

 

RITC

[reallyinthecrap]

This is why I believe I have a right to cancel my contract without having to pay the Early Termination Fee:

 

Please comment if you think I am within my rights:

 

SOGA: Not Fit For Purpose: http://whatconsumer.co.uk/it-is-not-fit-for-purpose/

 

"That’s a legitimate claim as long as you are using the item for the purpose for which it was intended. This is the principle of fitness for purpose. There is no point claiming that paint thinner has had adverse effects if it is not being used as paint thinner! Similarly, if you are commissioning the manufacture of a product and do not specify the purposes for which it will be used you will have no recourse if it fails to live up to your expectations."

 

SOGA: How do you measure quality? : http://whatconsumer.co.uk/how-do-you-measure-quality/

 

"Satisfactory quality is defined as what a ‘reasonable person’ would regard as acceptable, and takes into account factors such as price paid, fitness for purpose specified, appearance and finish, freedom from minor blemishes, safety and durability. If it becomes apparent that an item is not of the quality you were led to expect, you were not aware of any such defect when you bought it, and you bought from a seller acting ‘in the course of a business’ (i.e. not an informal sale), you are quite within your rights to go back to the retailer, even after some months of use. If a product develops a fault within the first 6 months, the assumption will be that this defect was present at the time of purchase and you will not have to prove anything. If you are returning an item after this 6 month time period, this automatic assumption does not apply, and it may be up to you to prove the fault did not occur through misuse. You should also consider aspect of durability and acceptance."

 

SOGA: Acceptance: http://whatconsumer.co.uk/my-responsibility/

 

"The principles of contract law discussed earlier are evident here, and if the breach is so fundamental or the consequences so significant, you will be entitled to rescind the contract entirely, get your money back and also claim damages. However, your rights in this respect depend upon whether it is felt you have already ‘accepted’ the goods in question. If you have been using the goods in question over a reasonable length of time, or you have given the impression that all is well and you are happy with the product, you cannot rescind the contract, but will be able to claim damages. However the law says that you must have ‘reasonable opportunity of examining the goods for the purpose of ascertaining whether they are in conformity with the contract’, which, in some cases, may be up to a year.

 

This may seem a bit fuzzy, so to add further clarification, the Sale of Goods Act now states that if a product develops a fault within the first 6 months, the assumption will be that the defect was present at the time of purchase and you should get an automatic repair or replacement. After this time, you may have to prove the fault was not due to misuse, although shops must also recognise issues of durability – i.e how long an item would be expected to last before developing problems.

 

Just because you sign a delivery / satisfaction note, or agree to a manufacturer’s repair, it does not mean you have accepted the goods, and are waiving your right to return them at a later date."

 

After now had an outage of 3 weeks back in May this year and on my 21st day of this outage I simply cannot afford to be without my phone any longer. Especially when VF have been unable to tell me when this problem will be resolved.

 

I have already emailed VF saying I am cancelling my contact and I have my PAC code but they are saying they will take me to court for the £500 early termination fee. I also fear for the damage they will more than likely do to my credit rating....

 

Please can I have some advice?

 

Thanks

 

RITC

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

Hi, I've just found this site as a means to attempt to get some sense out of Vodafone on an issue that has been affecting the village where I live. The local mast has been down since 2nd Sept (2.5weeks ago!) and despite several contacts to Customer Services they have no idea when this fault will be resolved. The last CS chap advised, please bear with us but be aware some faults take months to fix! Not acceptable.

 

To add to this, the mast was down for 3weeks back in May/June of this year also, with severe disruption experienced yet again, which was again not acceptable when you are paying for a contract and not getting any service.

 

Vodafone listen to the frustrations but advise they cannot confirm when the mast will be repaired.

 

Our local village is fuming understandably and I wanted to see what options we had by way of early our terminating contract as I rely on my phone for work and it is now at a stage where I am being personally affected financially for missed temporary work from agencies that call between 7am-8.30am offering work...calls/txts of which I cannot receive unless I go to the next village to receive!

 

If anyone on here is from Vodafone, I have raised a case online #9905352

 

Regards,

 

Hi mr220,

 

I can appreciate your frustrations here and can assure you that our investigations into this matter remain ongoing.

 

Having checked our emails I can confirm that I've received yours and so I'll get in touch with you as soon as I can to discuss your concerns further.

 

In the event that anyone else is experiencing difficulties with our network I'd recommend following the guidance on our eForum here.

 

I have already emailed VF saying I am cancelling my contact and I have my PAC code but they are saying they will take me to court for the £500 early termination fee. I also fear for the damage they will more than likely do to my credit rating....

 

Please can I have some advice?

 

Thanks

 

RITC

 

Hi RITC,

 

I believe that I spoke to you about this yesterday.

 

As promised, I'll get back to you again as soon as I have further news.

 

Thanks,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

[reallyinthecrap]

This is why I believe I have a right to cancel my contract without having to pay the Early Termination Fee:

 

Please comment if you think I am within my rights:

 

SOGA: Not Fit For Purpose: http://whatconsumer.co.uk/it-is-not-fit-for-purpose/

 

"That’s a legitimate claim as long as you are using the item for the purpose for which it was intended. This is the principle of fitness for purpose. There is no point claiming that paint thinner has had adverse effects if it is not being used as paint thinner! Similarly, if you are commissioning the manufacture of a product and do not specify the purposes for which it will be used you will have no recourse if it fails to live up to your expectations."

 

SOGA: How do you measure quality? : http://whatconsumer.co.uk/how-do-you-measure-quality/

 

"Satisfactory quality is defined as what a ‘reasonable person’ would regard as acceptable, and takes into account factors such as price paid, fitness for purpose specified, appearance and finish, freedom from minor blemishes, safety and durability. If it becomes apparent that an item is not of the quality you were led to expect, you were not aware of any such defect when you bought it, and you bought from a seller acting ‘in the course of a business’ (i.e. not an informal sale), you are quite within your rights to go back to the retailer, even after some months of use. If a product develops a fault within the first 6 months, the assumption will be that this defect was present at the time of purchase and you will not have to prove anything. If you are returning an item after this 6 month time period, this automatic assumption does not apply, and it may be up to you to prove the fault did not occur through misuse. You should also consider aspect of durability and acceptance."

 

SOGA: Acceptance: http://whatconsumer.co.uk/my-responsibility/

 

"The principles of contract law discussed earlier are evident here, and if the breach is so fundamental or the consequences so significant, you will be entitled to rescind the contract entirely, get your money back and also claim damages. However, your rights in this respect depend upon whether it is felt you have already ‘accepted’ the goods in question. If you have been using the goods in question over a reasonable length of time, or you have given the impression that all is well and you are happy with the product, you cannot rescind the contract, but will be able to claim damages. However the law says that you must have ‘reasonable opportunity of examining the goods for the purpose of ascertaining whether they are in conformity with the contract’, which, in some cases, may be up to a year.

 

This may seem a bit fuzzy, so to add further clarification, the Sale of Goods Act now states that if a product develops a fault within the first 6 months, the assumption will be that the defect was present at the time of purchase and you should get an automatic repair or replacement. After this time, you may have to prove the fault was not due to misuse, although shops must also recognise issues of durability – i.e how long an item would be expected to last before developing problems.

 

Just because you sign a delivery / satisfaction note, or agree to a manufacturer’s repair, it does not mean you have accepted the goods, and are waiving your right to return them at a later date."

 

After now had an outage of 3 weeks back in May this year and on my 21st day of this outage I simply cannot afford to be without my phone any longer. Especially when VF have been unable to tell me when this problem will be resolved.

 

I have already emailed VF saying I am cancelling my contact and I have my PAC code but they are saying they will take me to court for the £500 early termination fee. I also fear for the damage they will more than likely do to my credit rating....

 

Please can I have some advice?

 

Thanks

 

RITC

 

Please, Please, Please can someone from the forum give me an opinion on my above posting?

 

I have just received yet another email from, this time directly form Lee, (thank you Lee) saying that they cannot tell me when this problem will be resolved and reiterating that they will not release me from my contract.

 

To be honest, I am no longer looking for their approval, I am looking for help from the learned members of this forum on whether they believe I have a right to cancel based on the Sale Of Goods Act.

 

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

RITC

[reallyinthecrap]

Come on peeps?

 

Surely someone has an opinion on whether being without a signal for over 3 weeks contravenes the "fit for purpose" part of the Sale of Goods Act?

 

Pretty Please?

 

RITC

[reallyinthecrap]

Hello,

 

Can anyone please help me?

 

I have a problem with vodafone and have posted to what i think is the correct forum but after 2 days nobody has answered me.

 

Can anyone please give me their thoughts...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?115-Telecoms-mobile-or-fixed

 

Thanks

[freakyleaky]

is it this thread? http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?365000-VodaFone-Breach-Of-Contract

[reallyinthecrap]

oh very sorry - put the wrong link...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?365899-Vodafone-Mast-Down-since-2nd-Sept-Still-no-service-What-Options

[freakyleaky]

Ah now I see.

You have posted on another thread. I will move your posts from that thread to there own thread. This should prompt replies from the regulars.

[freakyleaky]

I have moved your posts from the other thread. You should get a better response now.

[reallyinthecrap]

many thanks!

[reallyinthecrap]

this problem is affecting hundreds of people.

 

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=5C666BDCB5DB3B04!647&authkey=!ALIxhTYxb2IykK8

[reallyinthecrap]

ok, looks like the most applicable protection for this issue is not the Sale Of Goods Act but the Supply of Goods Act 1982 where it states:

 

13 Implied term about care and skill. E+W+N.I.

In a contract for the supply of a service where the supplier is acting in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the supplier will carry out the service with reasonable care and skill.

 

And also:

 

14 Implied term about time for performance..

(1)Where, under a contract for the supply of a service by a supplier acting in the course of a business, the time for the service to be carried out is not fixed by the contract, left to be fixed in a manner agreed by the contract or determined by the course of dealing between the parties, there is an implied term that the supplier will carry out the service within a reasonable time. .

(2)What is a reasonable time is a question of fact.

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

Hi RITC,

 

Thanks for your time on the phone yesterday.

 

As promised, I'll get back to you once I have further news.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

[reallyinthecrap]

Hi Lee,

 

Unfortunately, time has run out. I just couldn't wait any longer.

 

24 days is just not acceptable as Im sure I have exlpained.

 

And "waiting for further news" just isn't good enough

 

Im now of GiffGaff with 4 bars... woohoo!

 

RITC

[skintandfat]

see HERE

 

11 Ending this agreement

a Either you or we may end this agreement by giving the other 30 days’ notice in writing. Your notice must include your mobile number and your signature or appropriate security details. You must pay the charges during the notice period.

b You may end this agreement by writing to us if:

• we don’t do something fundamental that we should have done under this agreement (for example, if there is a complete failure of the network for seven days in a row due to something we have done), within seven days of you asking us in writing;

 

They have failed to repair their equipment for 7 days now, and had a total failure in your area

[reallyinthecrap]

see HERE

 

11 Ending this agreement

a Either you or we may end this agreement by giving the other 30 days’ notice in writing. Your notice must include your mobile number and your signature or appropriate security details. You must pay the charges during the notice period.

b You may end this agreement by writing to us if:

• we don’t do something fundamental that we should have done under this agreement (for example, if there is a complete failure of the network for seven days in a row due to something we have done), within seven days of you asking us in writing;

 

They have failed to repair their equipment for 7 days now, and had a total failure in your area

 

i know. but when i spoke to Lee, his explanation of a "complete failure of the network" only kicks in IF the whole of Vodafone went down lol. And ending the contract under their terms still leaves you liable to an early termination fee (if applicable)

 

i have taken advice and my posting #9, using my statutory rights under the Sales of Services Act 1982 is the best way to approach this problem.

 

they have failed to carry out their business with "reasonable care and skill"

 

no doubt this will end in court though!

 

wish me luck!

Edited September 22, 2012 by reallyinthecrap
smelling ****take

[reallyinthecrap]

something for your records Lee:

 

http://www.penarthtimes.co.uk/news/9940798.Dinas_Powys_residents_signal_their_anger_over_mobile_phone_service_problems/?ref=twt&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Edited September 22, 2012 by reallyinthecrap

[skintandfat]

You have 3 options

 

1. Put up with it, and wait and see

 

2. Cancel, refuse to pay and let them take you to court- you will ruin your credit rating and this will impact on your business

 

3. Cancel the contract, pay the termination fee UNDER PROTEST and then sue VF for the money in the small claims court. This will keep your credit reting good and you may get your money back to boot.

 

Hope this helps

 

A company like VF are very unlikely to bother defending a small claim for £400, but they may.

Before you take court action (and after paying if you decide to go down this route) obtain a SAR (Subject Access Request) for the information VF have on you.

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

Hi RITC,

 

Thanks for your time on the phone last week.

 

I appreciate that you have to do what you feel is right for you and so any updates regarding the network will be a little academic. However, I will as promised get back in touch with you once I've got further news.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

[reallyinthecrap]

just for the record:

 

1. Still no signal

2. Still no repair date from vodafone

3. Other people suffering who were promised reduced payments this month have had their normal full payment taken

4. Some people have received letter from vodafone saying that no automatic compensation will be made only after people make a claim in writing once the service has been resumed

5. 23 days without service.

[skintandfat]

i know. but when i spoke to Lee, his explanation of a "complete failure of the network" only kicks in IF the whole of Vodafone went down lol. And ending the contract under their terms still leaves you liable to an early termination fee (if applicable)

 

i have taken advice and my posting #9, using my statutory rights under the Sales of Services Act 1982 is the best way to approach this problem.

 

they have failed to carry out their business with "reasonable care and skill"

 

no doubt this will end in court though!

 

wish me luck!

 

Lee is wrong- he obvously hasn't read VF's terms and conditions;

It states;

I must still pay all the line rental until the end of the minimum period. This applies when this agreement comes to an end in clause 11, except in the following situations.

• If you end this agreement under clause 11a.

• If I end this agreement under clause 11b.

• If you end this agreement because you are permanently unable to provide the services to me.

 

I can't believe that VF can't follow their terms and conditions. It quite clearly states that if you terminate the contract under clause 11a or 11b the early termination fee (line rental due) is not payable