Help please; sold-on false value

[sallysstephens]

Hi, I have one here I could do with help on please. I’ll use ‘Card Provider’ and ‘DCA’ in place of the names of the parties themselves, as well as incorrect values; so as to protect myself from prying eyes.

 

I had an account with a Card Provider. It had been the subject of a PPI plan, so I knew I was within my rights to question its value. As such, I followed the route of sending the standard letters and then going via the FSA route. The balance – shall we say – was £10,000, of which the FSA latterly found in my favour, and £5,000 was sent back to me by the Card Provider for the mis-sold PPI.

 

However, before things got to the FSA, the card provider sold my ‘debt’ to a DCA, who are now perusing me for the full £10K value.

 

Yes, the Card Provider has given me the £5K back; but surely, if the DCA purchased the debt with an incorrectly swollen value?

 

The DCA, if they continue to push, would surely have to prove that they purchased a ‘debt’ at the wrong value, and are pushing for that same wrong value, which is now made right by virtue of a credit given directly to me in an unrelated transaction by the Card provider?!?!?

 

Where do I stand?

 

Oh, and there’s no proper agreement either. But that’s one for another day!

 

Cheers and thanks in anticipation of any wisdom that can come my way. Appreciated

[sequenci]

Hello there.

 

The debt was £10k. You had £5k refunded, which went to you rather than being reduced off the debt. Therefore it would still be £10k that is outstanding surely?

[sallysstephens]

Hi, thank you for responding. That is correct, yes.

 

I guess I was just wondering with regards the legality of the DCA pushing for the totality of the value. Once the debt has been 'sold' to them; anything that the Card Issuer agrees with me after that date is surely contractually nothing to do with them?

 

And they are left pushing for a value that has seen to be flawed?

[lookinforinfo]

Hi Sally-congratulations at getting your PPI returned.

 

If you are sure that the debt has been sold on, then inform the "DCA" that the FSA have agreed that the PPI should not have been part of the contract

and that your debt has been reduced by that amount. Then it is up to the DCA whether they go back to the Original Creditor to either return the debt or

renegotiate a reduced price to reflect the cancellation of the PPI element.

 

If you are so minded, at the same time you could also inform the DCA that the OC does not have a copy of your contract [if that's what you mean by a proper agreement].

And put them on notice that you would want the original in place before paying them any money. Of course if the DCA has been hassling you, you can always keep that in

reserve for a later date just to hack them off.

[lookinforinfo]

Hello there.

 

The debt was £10k. You had £5k refunded, which went to you rather than being reduced off the debt. Therefore it would still be £10k that is outstanding surely?

 

Surely if the PPI should not have been included in the contract from the start, then the debt is £5000?

 

Sorry, Sequenci, your post was added while I was writing mine, but my question still stands.

Edited August 10, 2012 by lookinforinfo
Previous post was not posted when I started mine

[sequenci]

The OP decided to have a refund rather than have the PPI removed from said contract, would that make a difference?

[ims21]

You owed £10k.

 

£5k of that was not held as being valid so they sent you a cheque for £5k. You now have £5k in your hand.

 

You still owe the £10k.

 

Pay them the £5k and you then owe them £5k.

 

Hang on to the £5k and you still owe them £10k.

 

You can't have the £5k refund knocked off twice.

[lookinforinfo]

Ok, ok guys -you have finally convinced me [sally already knew]. I was looking at it from the aspect that the outstanding amount that should have been sold on to the DCA

was £5000 and so the DCA had paid too much for the debt. I had failed to take into account that by paying Sally the £5,000, that one couldn't expect the OC to also have to

reduce the DCAs debt by £5000.

[lookinforinfo]

Thank you Sequenci and Ims 21 for your patience in explaining my senior moment.

[sequenci]

Thank you Sequenci and Ims 21 for your patience in explaining my senior moment.

 

[sallysstephens]

You owed £10k.

 

£5k of that was not held as being valid so they sent you a cheque for £5k. You now have £5k in your hand.

 

You still owe the £10k.

 

Pay them the £5k and you then owe them £5k.

 

Hang on to the £5k and you still owe them £10k.

 

You can't have the £5k refund knocked off twice.

 

Hi. Whilst I understand that's a mathematical analysis of the situation; does it reflect the legal position? The value transferred from one party to the other was incorrect, and I have no desire to be any more benevolent to a DCA than the law compels

[sallysstephens]

Incidentally, all feedback above; and any to follow being gratefully recieved

[BazzaS]

Hi. Whilst I understand that's a mathematical analysis of the situation; does it reflect the legal position? The value transferred from one party to the other was incorrect, and I have no desire to be any more benevolent to a DCA than the law compels

 

Unjust enrichment.

 

You can't benefit from claiming the 5k back, and then claiming the 10k was an error and should only have been 5k as the 5k you've already taken from them needs to be taken off AGAIN.

 

However, if the 5 or 10k isn't recoverable / an enforceable debt then you as in a better position for having lawfully had the 5k PPI refunded to you rather than it being taken off the unenforceable balance. You still owe the 10k, but they may not be able to recover it, rather than them claiming 5k that they can't recover, but you not havIng had your 5k (PPI payments) back.