Guarantor woes

[Howie666]

Hello everybody. We are having a bit of a problem, my wife and I. About a year ago my wife signed as Guarantor for her daughter (my stepdaughter's) rent in a shared house. The rent was £1050 for six months, but my wife signed to guarantee the subsequent six months (the first six months was paid in full).

My stepdaughter moved out of the accommodation at the end of the six months. A couple of days later the landlady contacted my wife and said she was liable for the next six months rent to the tune of £1050. Following some advice my wife offered to pay the amount in instalments direct to the landlady's bank account.

We have thus far paid £500 of the outstanding amount. Unfortunately due to recent changes we haven't been able to continue paying the instalments. I am in receipt of Income Support with a disability premium (or whatever they are calling it now) and my wife receives DLA. Today the landlady telephoned my wife to say she is calling at our house tomorrow to collect the remaining balance of the rent, some £600 in cash.

I'm not completely sure but I don't think we are obliged under law to pay this cash money, and in any case we simply don't have it.

Please could someone advise us as to what our responsibilities and/or rights might be in this situation? This is a very stressful experience for both of us. Thank you in advance.

[i hate bailiffs]

i would be tempted to tell the LL to do one if she turns up

 

she has no right to enter your property,i expect it will depend on the contract has the LL got another tenant now?

[mariner51]

Depends on the wording of the G Agreement signed, being shown dau's AST before signing.

Did dau serve due Notice after 6 months or vacate on last day of fixed term?

I fear that part-payment of debt may indicate you accept liability. LL may well pursue the debt in Court but some Judges regard fixed term & SPTs as seperate T agreements. Judges usually scrutinise the G agreement closely in order to find for the Guarantor (you) if poss, but not guaranteed.

Do you own your own property? If LL wins, then he could put a charge on it, so debt is repaid when title is transferred.

[marmaris30]

Landlords are obliged not to make problems any worse. Thus if a tenant moves out before their term is up (in this case to be determined by whether there was a second, new 6-month tenancy agreed after the first one), the landlord needs to find a new tenant rather than just jump on the previous one for arrears. Obviously the new tenant has to be suitable so sa reasonable time is allowed, and the old tenant (or their guarantor) would normally be liable up to that point. It seems quite lazy and unreasonable to ask for the whole six months though and if she does turn up then you should send her away with nothing, stating that all further communication over the dispute will be in writing only.

[Howie666]

Hello everybody. Firstly, many thanks for your replies and kind advice. I am confused about some of the acronyms you used though (I am unused to this forum I'm afraid!) Could you please tell me what SPT and AST mean? We are definitely going to tell her to go away today. A friend has advised that if she gets threatening we call the Police! Thanks again. I will post more information if and when I have it. Cheers!

The LL has been very cagey about whether she has a new tenant. The shared house is student accommodation and we believe she has a number of properties in the area. In fact she withheld her number when she telephoned us!

[havinastella]

It's worth remembering that a Guarantor has to be witnessed under seal.

[Pam Dell]

What does a guarantor under seal mean?

 

Do you mean at a court of law or in the presence of a solicitor for it to be valid?

[havinastella]

What does a guarantor under seal mean?

 

Do you mean at a court of law or in the presence of a solicitor for it to be valid?

 

Yes

[Pam Dell]

Really?

 

So all these parents that have just signed that they will guarantee their adult childrens' rent are under no legal obligation to pay if it hasn't had this "seal"?

 

I'm sure not many people are aware of this.

[havinastella]

Really?

 

So all these parents that have just signed that they will guarantee their adult childrens' rent are under no legal obligation to pay if it hasn't had this "seal"?

 

I'm sure not many people are aware of this.

 

Neither was I until I signed for my boy's last year. I looked into it with a bit more depth. Will post up some links later, off to work now.

 

Jogs

[Howie666]

I've been chatting with my wife. The Guarantor form she signed was signed in the presence of the LL and my stepdaughter. So far the money she has paid back to the LL has gone to two different accounts, one of which was not in the LL's name, which seems a little odd. We don't have an address or contact number for the LL. When she first approached us regarding this debt, she turned up on the doorstep and brandished the Guarantor agreement, saying that she would sue us for the money if she had to but she 'really didn't want to'.

As far as I know she has made no attempt to contact my stepdaughter regarding any arrears. My wife has said she is sure that my stepdaughter left before the initial six month period was over but she did not give formal notice she was leaving. It is my understanding that when my stepdaughter realised she wouldn't have the money to pay the next six months rent she 'did a runner'.

My wife is adamant she will not furnish the LL with any contact details for her daughter.

I don't think this is the first time this particular LL has done this. She has perfectly good student accommodation available, there is no shortage of students in Preston needing a room to rent and as far as I know the room has remained empty since my stepdaughter left.

Incidentally we too are tenants, so I'm thinking that even if she was successful in taking my wife to court she couldn't attach our property as we don't have any?

[Howie666]

Incidentally we're not trying to duck our obligations. It is simply that this woman went from genial to threatening in a heartbeat. She came to the house today and kept insisting that she was going to take my wife to court and "get a county court against her", and "I'll win". I had to point out twice that we have made a reasonable offer to pay and that she was refusing to accept it at which point she did a u-turn and started to ask what we were proposing. She went away after insisting that she was under no obligation to pursue my stepdaughter for the rent and that as Guarantor my wife was fully responsible for the debt. She said my wife would then have to sue her daughter for the arrears of rent. I'm not sure this LL is in full possession of the facts regarding our responsibilities or hers for that matter. She is a thoroughly unpleasant person.

[Pam Dell]

Why don't you tell her your signing as the guarantor is not legally enforceable in a court of law as it has not been witnessed by a professional legal authority?

 

Don't let her intimidate you.

[The Carpet Cleaners]

What is needed here is how long the original AST Assured Shorthold Tenancy agreement was for.

 

Did Stepdaughter do a runner after the end of the original AST? or was it a 12 month AST?

 

Was there a bond? and if so was it protected?

[Howie666]

What is needed here is how long the original AST Assured Shorthold Tenancy agreement was for.

 

Did Stepdaughter do a runner after the end of the original AST? or was it a 12 month AST?

 

Was there a bond? and if so was it protected?

 

The original AST was for twelve months. She left before the end of the first six months, having had 'friends' tell her she wouldn't be liable if she left. We didn't pay a bond as far as I know. I haven't been able to explain to my stepdaughter that she's dropped her mum in it by leaving/not paying the rent.

[The Carpet Cleaners]

She went away after insisting that she was under no obligation to pursue my stepdaughter for the rent and that as Guarantor my wife was fully responsible for the debt. She said my wife would then have to sue her daughter for the arrears of rent. I'm not sure this LL is in full possession of the facts regarding our responsibilities or hers for that matter.

 

This bit is unfortunately true, provided that guarantor form was legal and above board.

[Howie666]

This bit is unfortunately true, provided that guarantor form was legal and above board.

 

Thank you for the clarification. I'm looking into the legality of the Guarantor form. It seems it was signed (I wasn't there at the time) by my wife in the presence of the LL and my stepdaughter, who I don't think counts as an impartial witness. Nor did anyone sign to authenticate the document.

[raydetinu]

Also as guarantor you must have been given a copy of the new agreement and all your liabilities/costs must be listed. A new agreement means new valid guarantor agreement. You cannot carry it over. It is dead.

Guarantor forms nust be independantly witnessed and notirised to confirm parties involved are who they say they are.

The reason is that this is not a normal contract as the Guarontor has no benefit from the contract only liabilities.

So if you did not sign a new document covering the new rent agreement then it does not exist at all!!!

Tell her go take a hike.

[The Carpet Cleaners]

If that is also true, then the £500 you have paid will be more than enough to pay towards re-advertising and re-letting the room.

[mariner51]

http://www.lettingfocus.com/pages/myarticles_Guarantorsintenancyagreements.html

 

provides clear advice for all parties and refutes some of the advice offered by others above. ie witness does not have to be legally qualified. Also it does not say DoG has to be notorised or 'signed under seal'

 

Given orig fixed term was 12 months and dau vacated, without notice, 6 months into fixed term, she and G are liable for remaining fixed term rent. LL is under no duty to mitigate his loss by finding an alt T. Since this was a shared tenancy, all Ts & Gs are jointly liable for any defaulting T.

I would seriously advise OPs wife to provide dau's address to LL and tell dau to accept her resp to mother, LL & housemates & not to rely on 'friends' advice just because it suits her!

[havinastella]

Your link is fatally flawed

 

It is essential that the guarantor is a home owner in the UK -

[jaffro]

that link means nothing in all honestly as we are battleing with a ex landlord over this exact thing... apart from the gaurantour in this instance never actaully signed the document yet it showed up in court............and landlord did win twice

[raydetinu]

That is wrong the document must be notirised or witnessed by person of standing ( commiisioner etc.) who has checked identity etc. of parties. Agree does not have to be under seal. AST and all costs likely to be liable must be clearly stated, attached or confirmed as having been understood.

As said this is not a normal contract!

Does not releive Daughter of liability tho! so you may have to pay anyway.