DCA chasing a debt that doesn't exist and entering defaults every month!

[Kate987123]

Hi guys,

 

Hope someone can help. A DCA contacted me with an alleged debt owed to Orange, I had no knowledge of the debt, asked for evidence, none provided. I spoke to Orange who said the alleged debt had been sold to the DCA so they couldn't even discuss it. Heard no more about it so assumed the error had been resolved.

 

In 2011 I got a letter from Orange and a new DCA saying Orange had sold the debt to them. I wrote to both, again stating I had no knowledge of the alleged debt, please provide proof. Also argued that as Orange had claimed to have sold the debt previously, where was the Notice of Assignment from the old DCA back to Orange? Didn't hear anything from Orange and the new DCA said I would have to prove the debt didn't exist via a letter from Orange, got a couple more standard letters but then heard no more from either.

 

I've just checked my credit report and the (new DCA) have registered a default. In addition to this it seems they are registering a 'non-payment' every month. The alleged initial default was in 2009 but if they keep registering a default every month effectively it will never drop of my credit report.

 

Furthermore, even I did owe the outstanding amount, the DCA have bought the full amount, I have made no agreement with the DCA to make a monthly payment so how can I be defaulting every month?!

 

Orange don't respond to my letters and DCA won't stop until they get a letter from Orange confirming it was an error so I'm stuck with an alleged debt that I have no knowledge about. Is there any way I can get them to stop adding defaults and remove what is there? And also, insist on receiving proof of the debt? As it's a phone contract apparently the CCA rules don't apply as credit isn't involved so I'm a bit stuck with this one!

 

Thanks for any help

[Conniff]

Well one thing is for certain - they have to prove there is and not you prove there isn't.

 

I did one of these for my son and simply said 'send proof and I will take a look until then no further correspondence will be entered into'.

Had few more letters after that but they were ignored (which I suggest is what you do), and nothing further was heard.

 

You should also give them 30 days to remove any adverse comments put on your cra telling them further action will be taken if they don't comply.

 

Send recorded as some companies have a habit of 'never received it'.

[BankFodder]

I'm using a phone at the moment so can't wrote too much.

Send an SAR to all parties.

Lodge a notice of dispute with the CRA.

Orange are wrong not to discuss with you. when they sell their debts, they sell their rights but not their duties.

they have to prove the debt -it is not for you to disprove it.

more later.

[Kate987123]

Hi Conniff,

 

Thanks for the quick response. I sent one of those letters via recorded delivery every time the DCA sent a letter. They have stopped contacting me but are still adding a non payment default every month. I know that technically the onus is on them to prove it exists and not me but they're refusing to do so. The first I knew of any alleged debt was from the previous DCA so I wasn't contacted by Orange initially or told my account was in arrears. I genuinely wasn't aware of any debt and surely it should be quite simple to provide an account statement showing an amount owed if there was one!

 

If the CCA rules applied technically the account would be in dispute which (I presume) would mean they cannot continue to add defaults but as the CCA 1974 apparently doesn't apply to phone contracts is there an equivalent piece of legislation or guidelines that confirm the account is in dispute?

[Kate987123]

Thanks BankFodder, SAR sounds like a good idea (and probably my only option), fed up of losing £10 every time a company decides something is owed despite the fact they have no paperwork to show this

[Conniff]

Nice bit of reading:

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/290/schedule/1/made

 

Did they tell you they were marking your cra file and which agency they were using?

[Kate987123]

In the letter they sent that informed me they had been sold the debt, the second paragraph stated that a default had been placed on my account but they didn't mention which agency.

 

However, if the default had been placed on my account BEFORE I was even told they'd bought it surely a default didn't actually exist (I didn't know I owed them, how can I have defaulted?!)

 

Although they are clearly technically in the wrong but not proving I owe the debt in reality this doesn't seem to make any difference to their conduct

 

The debt isn't for a particularly large amount, I could just about pay it off but a) as far as I'm aware I don't even owe it and b) even if I paid it off my CRA will still show a default for 6 years which is absolutely unacceptable given the circumstances (in my opinion). With the CRA, DCA and OC all saying the other has to sort it out I don't seem to be getting anywhere.

[Conniff]

Then an SAR is the only way to go. You could tell them if it shows no debt, you will be reclaiming the £10

[Kate987123]

Thanks Conniff. Should I send the SAR to the DCA or the OC? As the DCA claim to own it I guess I should send it to them...at least it will cause them a bit of hassle

[Conniff]

If the dca owns it, send it to them, let them go chasing it up with the original creditor.

[citizenB]

Also remember to lodge a notice of dispute with the Credit Reference Agencies as advised by BankFodder.

[Kate987123]

Will do, thanks for all the help

[Kate987123]

Thanks Cooke, do the markers affect credit rating/score or is it just the default that does?

[Kate987123]

Thanks Cooke, I was worried each marker was resetting the 6 year 'timer' but hopefully that's not the case!

[Kate987123]

Hi all,

 

Sorry for the vague title, not really sure what else to say. I'm a bit at the end of my tether, just got off a 40min phone call from a DCA. I've been dealing with DCAs a long time and know not to talk to them over the phone but they are plaguing me and don't respond to letters etc. I've never actually got upset over it before (and I've dealt with DLC so that's a feat!) but I was literally crying by the end of the call.

 

I've posted about the issue in detail before and had many kind replies which suggested the appropriate course of action but the DCA just don't act within the guidelines, they won't prove the debt exists and won't remove the default. They have phoned family members as well as me (despite me advising them not to in writing and refering OFT Mental Health Guidelines etc).

 

I genuinely think this alleged debt is an administrative error and I've never received proof it actually exists! It's for a relatively small amount so I'd pay it just to get rid of the default but claim they have the right to place a default despite not proving the debt exists.

 

It's been going on over a year and I just don't know how to deal with it anymore. And advice very welcome! Thanks for reading.

[cerberusalert]

I've merged your post into your original thread so people have an idea of what's happened.

[Kate987123]

Thank you!!

[cerberusalert]

Did you send the SAR?

 

If so did it show if a debt was actually owing?

[Kate987123]

Oh, I didn't send an SAR as the CCA doesn't apply so I stupidly thought an SAR wouldn't be relevant but it would still force them to pass on all the details they have wouldn't it?

 

To be honest, my main issue is the default which I want them to remove. Even if the debt exists (which I genuinely don't believe it does) can they place a default without proving a debt exists? I've contacted the CRA but got nowhere. What concerns me is that they will come up with some disputable document that they claim proves it but doesn't really and I either have to wait for them to take me to court or pay it and get left with the default either way.

 

So frustrating as I've worked really hard to get to the stage where I have only one debt left and now I'm getting my credit file messed around from a debt I've never even been told about!!

[cerberusalert]

but it would still force them to pass on all the details they have wouldn't it?

Yes.

To be honest, my main issue is the default which I want them to remove.

if you can prove the debt doesn't exist through the SAR they can be forced to remove it & you can claim compensation because they would have libeled you by entering erroneous information.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

OK which DCA is Chasing this, what is the debt for?

Why do you say the debt does not exist?

 

We cannot advise properly without knowing the full story!!

[renegadeimp]

The main problem is that you calld them. They knew they got to you as you said you broke down by the end of the call.

[Kate987123]

If (in the extremely unlikely event) they could prove it or (more likely) they claim a document proves it, I claim it doesn't), and I agree to pay it can I still force them to remove the default?

 

For example, if DCA A claim B owes them £20k and pesters them about it for two years and won't provide any proof or info about it and places a default in 2011, they argue about it and don't actually give B and info about the debt until 2013 then technically the debt is owed but is it fair to place a default if they won't meet their legal obligation to prove it exists?

 

I've said from the outset, please send me the info that proves it and I'll send payment tomorrow. But they never have. I genuinely don't think the debt is exists but if it's proven to (it's a mobile phone contract from about 5-6 years ago but default only placed in last couple of years) then I'm going to be penalised because I didn't pay immediately despite the fact they wouldn't provide proof.

 

I've never tried to evade payment, merely asked what the alleged debt is actually for

[cerberusalert]

A default should be recorded within a reasonable time period, usually six months from when a debt becomes due. Orange should have originally recorded it & the DCA updated... they cannot register a default themselves.

 

Have you made a complaint to the ICO?

[Kate987123]

The DCA tried to claimed that Orange should have entered it so it was ok for them to.

 

I haven't tried the ICO yet. Might try and see if the CRA will confirm in writing when the default was registered and who by as as DCA told me that Orange would have to remove it. As if Orange are going be able or bothered to remove a default another company has placed