Car possibly damaged whilst at garage

[krysp]

Hi,

 

My car was in a local dealership having the air-con gas refilled.

 

When called in to pay for the job, I was notified that they had found another fault. Apparently when lowering the passenger front window, the cable used to open/ close the window snapped, causing the window to drop.

 

Citroen has told me it'll cost £380 to replace the unit that raises/ lowers the window.

 

Do they have any liability whatsoever?

 

Thanks in advance...

[marmaris30]

A similar thing happened to me a few years ago - a simple job became a more complicated and expensive one due to a secondary fault - and I'm afraid I was not successful in having it repaired for no extra charge, although I didn't pursue it all the way to Court. Clearly one has to consider the garage's right of lien over your car while any bill remains unsettled.

 

The main problem is that the secondary fault could have been about to happen anyway, especially if old/high mileage, and unless you can prove an impeccable maintenance record or have some technical knowledge yourself that shows negligence, a garage is likely to be able to argue out the technical aspects better than a customer. In my case, they argued that the secondary fault was related and frankly I had to agree, although it looks like your case is different.

 

If it's a main dealer, chain or a long-term regular garage, then a goodwill payment would be a reasonable expectation, but from a small garage, free labour is perhaps the most you should expect. Sorry not to be more optimistic, and if others on the board have different opinions then by all means go with whichever you prefer!

 

The ultimate recourse is legal action, but in that event you'd need evidence, such as a full service history, an independent engineer's report, and manufacturer's information on expected lifetime of components (often designed to last as long as any warranty, plus a margin), to put together a case. Then there is still the risk of losing, and even if yoi win, you'd need to enforce the judgement - potentially difficult if it's a small garage.

[sailor sam]

The obvious question begs; why did they need to lower the window? Have you asked them how it happened? It's not something I've heard of happening often, a window cable snapping!

 

Legally I think you would need to show that they were negligent so if there is no associated damage (like marks on the glass suggesting it had been forced etc), I think you would have a hard time proving anything.

 

A couple of questions though; how long have you owned the car? if less than 6 months, did you buy it from a dealer? How old is the car?

[krysp]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I've owned the car for about 2.5 years and it's about 4 years old. Mileage is low though, just under 25k of which I've travelled about half (12.5k). The car's been well maintained, serviced on time etc.

 

The garage has said they will contact Citroen head office and see if they can get a goodwill gesture discount, although that may be have been just talk. It's a difficult situation to swallow as I'm not the expert and I'm having to rely on the honesty of the dealership. But I will ask about the expected lifespan of the failed unit.

 

Fingers crossed...

[krysp]

A quick update.

 

Citroen UK and the dealership have offered to pay most of the replacement charge so I'll be left with a £45 bill - which I probably could have haggled down further but was so delighted to hear I just accepted it!!

 

Happy days

[sailor sam]

Common sense prevails! BTW I would of thought that a component like that should last the lifetime of the car. It could hardly be described as a wear and tear item.

[marmaris30]

Sounds like a pretty good result - well done!

 

Regarding the 'lifetime of the car', this is the major factor that differentiates the various manufacturers. The cheapest such as Kia squeeze every last penny out of their costs by designing the lifetime of every component only just to exceed the warranty. Once the warranty passes, the average model will see increasing numbers of failures, including those items you might not consider prone to wear and tear. In reality, everything on a car is subject to wear and tear, because it gets used and is subject to weather, vibration etc.

 

The prestige marques like BMW are much more expensive to allow components to be designed with much longer lifetimes, because expectations of the lifetime of the car are much greater.

 

Of course there are long-lived Kias and lemon BMWs but on average, there's a world of difference at every level of design.

[krysp]

There must be many reasons why parts wear out, taking an example of the motor driving an electric window. It could suffer from failure due to under use or over use, it may fail due to abuse - kids constantly opening and closing it, or from weather, i.e. becoming brittle from freezing, and many more obscure reasons besides.

 

I'm just thankful I got rid of my old Fiat Coupe, now that WAS a lemon (it was yellow too)

[sailor sam]

There must be many reasons why parts wear out, taking an example of the motor driving an electric window. It could suffer from failure due to under use or over use, it may fail due to abuse - kids constantly opening and closing it, or from weather, i.e. becoming brittle from freezing, and many more obscure reasons besides.

 

I'm just thankful I got rid of my old Fiat Coupe, now that WAS a lemon (it was yellow too)

 

And mine was one of the best cars I have ever owned along with the 13 other Fiats I have had. I did own a Citroen once... never again!

[popeyethesailortam]

The obvious question begs; why did they need to lower the window? Have you asked them how it happened? It's not something I've heard of happening often, a window cable snapping!

 

Legally I think you would need to show that they were negligent so if there is no associated damage (like marks on the glass suggesting it had been forced etc), I think you would have a hard time proving anything.

 

A couple of questions though; how long have you owned the car? if less than 6 months, did you buy it from a dealer? How old is the car?

 

 

Forgive me here sam, But window regulators are a fairly common fault on most modern cars. Some go before others due to use. eg a taxi osf window will go up and down dozens of times a day. As for why would they open it, I can't speak for every garage but I open windows on cars so that I can have access to the ignition while working on other parts. Also to ensure if it is one of these cars that locks themselves after a certain period or if the battery has been disconnected I can still get into the vehicle.

[dw190]

I cant understand why the passenger side window would have to be opened to have the aircon gas refilled. Even checking the aircon is done with the windows closed.

[popeyethesailortam]

I cant understand why the passenger side window would have to be opened to have the aircon gas refilled. Even checking the aircon is done with the windows closed.

 

They can break without even being operated. It may of been lowered to pass a message on to a mechanic working outside the car. Look at it another way, the garage gives you a courtesy car. During that time you lower the passenger window to speak to your friend on the pavement. The regulator fails. Despite this being the one and only time you used that window, do you think the garage should make you pay for the repair to their car?

[sailor sam]

Forgive me here sam, But window regulators are a fairly common fault on most modern cars. Some go before others due to use. eg a taxi osf window will go up and down dozens of times a day.

 

Well i've not come across many and not only am I on my 20th 'modern' car of my own, but i've also worked in after sales at both a Ford and Fiat dealership and can't recall any cases either. So from my experience, I would have to disagree that it's fairly a common fault.

 

As for why would they open it, I can't speak for every garage but I open windows on cars so that I can have access to the ignition while working on other parts. Also to ensure if it is one of these cars that locks themselves after a certain period or if the battery has been disconnected I can still get into the vehicle.

 

Hmm, you must have very long arms then as we are talking about the passenger window!

 

In any event... the issue has been resolved so what's the point??

[scaniaman]

A truly remarkable result indeed----****roen giving a goodwill gesture when they won't even repair new cars under warranty!!!

Expect blue snow tomorrow.

[heliosuk]

Ooops. My Citroen has covered now in excess of 250,000 miles and the electric windows are just fine and dandy!!

 

However...........to the OP............this can happen, it is not unusual. I monitor litterally hundreds of claims a week so looked at my colleagues who look after these parts and whilst the incidence is exceptionally low, it does happen. It's also happened to me with a BMW torque convertor during a routine service. You stand there as a tech and litterally say what the **** happened there?

 

Still as Sam points out, irrelevant now.

[ScarletPimpernel]

And mine was one of the best cars I have ever owned along with the 13 other Fiats I have had. I did own a Citroen once... never again!

 

I had a fantastic Fiat Coupe as well. Superb performance and I never had any trouble with it.