Debt collection industry faces "perfect storm"

[Fulhamboy]

Yes the Pimpernel the new Dickens ! social commentator of our times. Certainly got a bee in the bonnet. Speak as you find unlike the Brig who imo is a double agent for wetcloths

Only joking about Brig.How about an open invitation to any rep from a DCA to come on this site and express their point of view? Probably get a very warm welcome mind you

[ScarletPimpernel]

Only joking about Brig.How about an open invitation to any rep from a DCA to come on this site and express their point of view? Probably get a very warm welcome mind you

 

I am not sure that this would be a good idea. In the past, one DCA did have an official rep on CAG. It had the potential to be very good for all concerned, but unfortunately the DCA squandered the opportunity, apparently being unable to deal in any meaningful way, and simply asking everyone with an issue to contact them. Given that the way the DCA's staff behaved when contact was made was often the issue, it was doomed to failure. The DCA rep was reluctant (to say the least) to answer any questions on compliance.

[huggy41]

well i'm glad i found this and posted it.

it seems that there is alot of people have veiwed 800+.

it's been very interesting reading the post by all members, and it seems we are all with the same vocal out come.

if they listen to us and not patronise or threaten us at the first instance then maybe just maybe we will conduct our bussiness professionally.

 

who am i kidding.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Yes the Pimpernel the new Dickens ! social commentator of our times. Certainly got a bee in the bonnet. Speak as you find unlike the Brig who imo is a double agent for wetcloths

I disregarded this post as I was involved in another thread and only glanced at it.

 

I will make no further comment other than to thank my colleagues for their

support and assure them of mine for every thing we do!!!!!

[Fred Bassett]

As I see it, DCAs are ****, pure and simple and should be treated as such. Call centre members should be treated with the utmost contempt because they deserve it, or better still, not dealt with at all. If you have to deal with them, be abusive, be sarcastic, question their integrity and parentage and generally, be as aggressive and nasty as you can. Shout them down, don't let them get a word in. They won't hesitate to do it to you, so get your revenge in first. Threaten them with legal action - make something up if you have to - again, they do, so don't be ashamed to do it yourself.

 

The key to all this, as has been mentioned a couple of times, is not to deal with these **** on the telephone and to make life as awkward as possible. Question everything they do, challenge everything they say, be awkward, be obtuse but whatever you do don't deal with them any other way than in writing. It slows them down, it costs them money, it frustrates them, it disarms them, it takes away their only weapon and above all it is really, really hurting them now.

 

I think we have the perfect opportunity here, because I've dealt with a number of DCAs who seem to be quite willing to accept email but will not respond by it. I'm talking here of Moorcroft, Wescot, Cabot, Iqor and probably others. Why they don't use email I don't know, but it does mean that we can correspond with them without paying but they have to pay to write back. Lovely!

[renegadeimp]

As I see it, DCAs are ****, pure and simple and should be treated as such. Call centre members should be treated with the utmost contempt because they deserve it, or better still, not dealt with at all. If you have to deal with them, be abusive, be sarcastic, question their integrity and parentage and generally, be as aggressive and nasty as you can. Shout them down, don't let them get a word in. They won't hesitate to do it to you, so get your revenge in first. Threaten them with legal action - make something up if you have to - again, they do, so don't be ashamed to do it yourself.

 

The key to all this, as has been mentioned a couple of times, is not to deal with these **** on the telephone and to make life as awkward as possible. Question everything they do, challenge everything they say, be awkward, be obtuse but whatever you do don't deal with them any other way than in writing. It slows them down, it costs them money, it frustrates them, it disarms them, it takes away their only weapon and above all it is really, really hurting them now.

 

I think we have the perfect opportunity here, because I've dealt with a number of DCAs who seem to be quite willing to accept email but will not respond by it. I'm talking here of Moorcroft, Wescot, Cabot, Iqor and probably others. Why they don't use email I don't know, but it does mean that we can correspond with them without paying but they have to pay to write back. Lovely!

 

 

Exactly. We're seeing a lot of DCA's buckling now in the PDL forums, since a lot of people are starting to be aware of their rights.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

All very well Fred Bassett if one does not actually owe

the debt I can understand the thought process there!

 

BUT and a very big BUT is that seeking to avoid a debt

that is genuinly owed,by seeking faults in paperwork and

such is foolhardy and often costly.

 

As to the use of e-mail for dealings with DCAs I do not

recommend it, only last year my computer was compromised,

this could have caused an unknown problem for me and the

people who rely on my input, hard copy always saves the day!!!

[rhos123]

As I see it, DCAs are ****, pure and simple and should be treated as such. Call centre members should be treated with the utmost contempt because they deserve it, or better still, not dealt with at all. If you have to deal with them, be abusive, be sarcastic, question their integrity and parentage and generally, be as aggressive and nasty as you can. Shout them down, don't let them get a word in. They won't hesitate to do it to you, so get your revenge in first. Threaten them with legal action - make something up if you have to - again, they do, so don't be ashamed to do it yourself.

 

The key to all this, as has been mentioned a couple of times, is not to deal with these **** on the telephone and to make life as awkward as possible. Question everything they do, challenge everything they say, be awkward, be obtuse but whatever you do don't deal with them any other way than in writing. It slows them down, it costs them money, it frustrates them, it disarms them, it takes away their only weapon and above all it is really, really hurting them now.

 

I think we have the perfect opportunity here, because I've dealt with a number of DCAs who seem to be quite willing to accept email but will not respond by it. I'm talking here of Moorcroft, Wescot, Cabot, Iqor and probably others. Why they don't use email I don't know, but it does mean that we can correspond with them without paying but they have to pay to write back. Lovely!

 

hi fred totally agree with you. i got fed up of playing letter tennis with the likes of moorcr@p. the muppet show at wescot etc. in my final letters to these idiots i gave them my valid e.mail address

not had a single e.mail from them.

Edited May 16, 2012 by rhos123

[citizenB]

Just because they are rude and abusive to the consumer, does not mean we should sink to their low levels and be rude and abusive back!

 

In fact it has been proved that a polite and considered response is often too much for their understanding anyway!!

So they leave you alone whilst they trot off and work out what has actually been said

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

As an alleged Westcott clone I totally agree with you CB,

there is no need for anyone to drag themselves down to

the same level as the DCAs.

 

I am sorry to see some of the the posts above which in my

opinion fall far short of what we expect from users of CAG.

[Fred Bassett]

All very well Fred Bassett if one does not actually owe

the debt I can understand the thought process there!

 

BUT and a very big BUT is that seeking to avoid a debt

that is genuinly owed,by seeking faults in paperwork and

such is foolhardy and often costly.

 

As to the use of e-mail for dealings with DCAs I do not

recommend it, only last year my computer was compromised,

this could have caused an unknown problem for me and the

people who rely on my input, hard copy always saves the day!!!

 

I can understand your reservations here and up to a point I agree. That point is reached when some [fine bunch of chaps] debt buying company buys your account for peanuts when you were never given the chance to buy it for the same amount yourself. At this point, I take the view that I have never had a financial relationship with the aforementioned [fine bunch of chaps] and therefore, even if I know that I owe them money, I will do my level best to wriggle out of the debt on any technicality going. I actually see that as a duty to be fulfilled if at all possible. If the original creditor had held on to the account and treated me fairly, that's a different matter.

 

I'm not silly, I know when I've got no chance and behave accordingly, but I will still make it as difficult and unpleasant as I can for whichever bunch of [toilet tissue sheets] happen to be collecting on the account at that moment in time. As for email, well it's worked OK for me without problems so far.

 

Anything we can do to make it more difficult for these vermin to operate is fair game as far as I'm concerned.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Fred Bassett
[words in square brackets were modded originally so make your own up]

[Fred Bassett]

Just because they are rude and abusive to the consumer, does not mean we should sink to their low levels and be rude and abusive back!

 

In fact it has been proved that a polite and considered response is often too much for their understanding anyway!!

So they leave you alone whilst they trot off and work out what has actually been said

 

I'm not rude and abusive back, I'm rude and abusive with them to start with. I know that is how they will behave so I get my revenge in first. That said, I rarely get any calls nowadays so this hasn't happened for quite some time. Shame.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Fred Bassett

[intend]

I have a simple philosophy in life which has seen me to my dotage and that is "Treat others as they treat you" - same applies for DCAs

 

Intend

[Fred Bassett]

I have a simple philosophy in life which has seen me to my dotage and that is "Treat others as they treat you" - same applies for DCAs

 

Intend

 

Precisely.

[sequenci]

I'm rude and abusive with them to start with. I know that is how they will behave so I get my revenge in first.

 

I have a simple philosophy in life which has seen me to my dotage and that is "Treat others as they treat you" - same applies for DCAs

 

Intend

 

Precisely.

 

That doesn't make sense. You should never assume, I'm sure you know how the mantra goes.

 

I think I prefer 'Intends'

[Fulhamboy]

Final post on this matter, did not mean to upset Brig. I could of used any name, his just popped into my head. I know it is not recommended talking to DCas,

but you cant help but laugh when they try to put the frightners on you. Being talked down to by someone barely out of short trousers is really funny. I have

found one DCa reasonable, you give them the benefit of doubt first, if they get shirty then you do the same:madgrin:

[sequenci]

Some DCAs have massively improved, some are worse than ever. Treat them as they come.

[Fred Bassett]

That doesn't make sense. You should never assume, I'm sure you know how the mantra goes.

 

I think I prefer 'Intends'

 

Look, I've been dealing with these **** for quite some years now so I KNOW how they are going to behave. They might be outwardly polite to start with but if they don't get their way they never end being polite. We all know the score: They will threaten you with:

• County Court judgements
  
• Deductions from your salary
  
• Sending thugs to your door
  
• Bailliffs
  
• Anything else they think they can get away with but of course nothing they can actually do.
  

Don't forget too that these are the same people who sent Beryl Brazier to her death and on this forum alone have threatened to try and have children removed from their Mother (was that Baby Bear?) and have even threatened people with terminal illnesses. These are the people who will ring you night and day constantly, despite you telling them not to, who will ring your family, friends, workplace and neighbours in an attempt to get you to ring them so they can bully you on the 'phone.

 

Now if you feel that these are people who you would like to treat with respect then go ahead and do it, that's your choice, but don't even think about criticising me because I feel otherwise.

 

I treat these people with the contempt they deserve, when I get the chance, which is not very often because they don't ring me any more. I have no idea why that is.

[sequenci]

You can't go through life thinking that all apples are bad just because *some* are. Yup, you're right, some are particularly vicious in the way that they behave, but, conversely, there are DCAs out there that are slowly and surely turning over a new leaf. Granted it's taking a while, but I'm sure it will continue. Indeed, lots of changes have to be made - but they need to be made fast. Changes - such as those brought in by the 2006 amendments to the CCA - are going to make challenging agreements more and more difficult, hence the need to engage and re-educate. The root cause of why these DCAs behave as they do needs to be established and changed, and to do that will take a lot of work, probably a more powerful regulator and licensing system and probably many, many years.

[Fred Bassett]

Some DCAs have massively improved, some are worse than ever. Treat them as they come.

 

Your choice. Personally, I prefer to give none of them the benefit of the doubt. I treat them as **** because that's what I believe they are. That said, I mainly follow the CAG mantra of not talking to **** in the first place and forcing them to spew out their utterances to whoever it is in their vile company who has the ability to operate the threatogram machine.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Fred Bassett

[sequenci]

That said, I mainly follow the CAG mantra of not talking to **** in the first place and forcing them to spew out their utterances to whoever it is in their vile company who has the ability to operate the threatogram machine.

 

That isn't the CAG mantra per se.

 

Certainly communicating in writing is something that we, as a site, would agree with. Debt avoidance isn't necessarily something that we would.

 

I deal with creditors, lenders, agencies, advice firms, pretty much everyone within the debt industry daily. I've seen massive improvements over the years. There is still a long way to go, but I'm happy that it is, indeed, improving.

 

For the record there *are* DCAs that I absolutely hate with a passion. But as each day comes, and each situation comes, objectivity is the key. Although it can often feel like groundhog day!

[Fred Bassett]

You can't go through life thinking that all apples are bad just because *some* are. Yup, you're right, some are particularly vicious in the way that they behave, but, conversely, there are DCAs out there that are slowly and surely turning over a new leaf. Granted it's taking a while, but I'm sure it will continue. Indeed, lots of changes have to be made - but they need to be made fast. Changes - such as those brought in by the 2006 amendments to the CCA - are going to make challenging agreements more and more difficult, hence the need to engage and re-educate. The root cause of why these DCAs behave as they do needs to be established and changed, and to do that will take a lot of work, probably a more powerful regulator and licensing system and probably many, many years.

 

It's perfectly reasonable to assume that they are all bad apples when you have never once dealt with one who isn't. That was my experience a few years ago and I don't care if they are trying to change now, they are still **** operating in the the vilest industry in this country bar kiddie porn. If you want to see them through rose-tinted glasses, again, that's your choice. I'm not stupid, I'm not going to leave myself open to additional costs and penalties when I know I am going to lose, but If I can get away without paying, for instance, Arrow Global, when I have never had a financial relationship with them, I will.

 

It seems to me that the CAG is becoming the propaganda arm of the Debt Collection industry and has also become very judgemental, which is a pity because it used to such a good place for discussion and advice.

[caledfwlch]

I prefer being completely and utterly daft and random to being rude, its far more fun.

 

Speak Welsh to them. I had an email which I replied to in Welsh, and the cheeky sods actually had the nerve to email back either "ordering" or "requiring" me to speak to them in English! I just emailed a load of legalities about rights to deal in Welsh, how they are racist, breaking the law etc. Doesnt actually apply to private companies, yet, but they don't know that, or what the Senate has introduced into Law, it generally doesnt make it into English Press in England. (used to do this when I lived in Yorkshire too )

 

Speak gibberish

 

I have also answered pretending to be another debt collection company, and once, when Mackenzie Hall phoned, I answered security by giving the address of Kilmarnock Trading Standards (which she clicked on to remarkably quick!) I have also answered calls from them as Kilmarnock TS

 

give false details, when (and they often do) attempt to continue the conversation, point out you have given false details, and start, politely telling them off/lecturing them about your rights, and how they have breached the DPA, and could be in trouble, and during it, you randomly throw in that you are incidently, recording the call

 

Lots of ways to waste their time without being rude!

[Fred Bassett]

 

Yes but none more satisfying.

[sequenci]

It seems to me that the CAG is becoming the propaganda arm of the Debt Collection industry and has also become very judgemental, which is a pity because it used to such a good place for discussion and advice.

 

Nice irony there!

 

You're welcome to your opinion of course, but as far as I'm concerned - and I'm sure the rest of the site team will also agree we're certainly here for discussion and advice; but to do that requires objectivity and the ability to see all sides. We have no links to any DCAs, no links to any creditors. I can understand why you have your thoughts - especially if that's all you've ever known from your own personal experiences. I don't see anything through rose-tinted glasses but I do have a reasonable understanding of the industry from within, personally. I know it's changing for the better but I also know there are 30 DCAs that I would close tomorrow and look to bring criminal prosecutions against if I could. The industry IS rotten, it DOES need changing - but to do so requires engagement and lobbying. There is a massive amount of work in progress, sadly it has been stiffled a little due to the recent change in government. I'm a staunch advocate of taking a holistic approach with debt, give the debtor all of the options available to them - let them, themselves, choose the most appropriate way forward.

 

For the record, if I had my way I would ban the selling of debts on completely. Keep it all in-house, make the lenders accountable for their actions directly. That would soon sort the men from the boys, so to speak.