Backdoor CCJ Arrows/Cater - Old Lloyds Card debt - set aside ***Claim Struck Out***

[maybelate]

Thank you again Andy and Ford

 

regards

Maybe

[Guest]

don't know, check this with andy etc, but if you don't get a copy of their reply in time for your skeleton prep then could consider making an application for directions/order that they send a copy and that the deadline for skeleton is extended, given the importance of their reply which may affect your skeleton, their late reply to the court, and lack of service on you (even though they told the court that they sent it to you). can this be done on the aq? otherwise such an application may involve a fee (if not exempt), but you might be able to get that back upon request given their unreasonableness/non compliance in the first place?

whilst mediation can't force disclosure, they might be amenable to postponing things if you are not in receipt of the required/ordered info?

just a thought

Edited May 3, 2013 by Ford

[maybelate]

Thanks Ford. I have eventually received a copy of the reply (which they state they have previously sent on 2 other occasions) , and I have sent form agreeing to mediation off to the court. I will post the reply when I can (computer problems again).

 

regards

Maybe

[maybelate]

Hi, here is their reply to my revised defence (post 242). I haven't attached all the documents that they refer to again as they are the same as in post 202. Any help with this would be verrrry gratefully received

 

 

Thank you,

Regards,

Maybe.

[maybelate]

Would someone ..................Andy be kind enough to have a look at this reply for me please?

[citizenB]

I will flag for andyorch to pop in and comment.

 

You can if you wish submit a rebuttal witness statement if you feel it would be of value, you would need to respond to each of their points.

[AndyOrch]

What are your initial thoughts MBL...they invite and put you to strict proof as to why the agreement is invalid?

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[maybelate]

Hi CB and Andy, thank you for taking time to read and reply to my post. In my humble Litigant in Person opinion Andy I think that the agreement in unenforceable by the Claimant for the following reasons:

 

The claimant does not have the original alleged agreement or the T'S & C's which they are required to produce in any court proceedings as this is a requirement of the law under Paragraph 7.3 of CPR Practice Direction 16.

 

I have never received a DN regarding the alleged agreement and the Claimant can only produce a "template" DN showing what the original would have looked like.

 

The court has ordered the Claimant to serve me with a copy of the DofA, showing proof of ownership of the alleged agreement but they have only provided a redacted DoA, which bears absolutely no connection to myself or the alleged agreement, and as I understand the law states that they must prove that the debt is owed to them.

 

Now I don't know how I can put the Claimant to strict proof of the above, other than them not being able to produce the said documentation at the forthcoming hearing, and I am planning to use the above to state my case when I enter mediation with the claimant. What do you think Andy?

 

Regards

Maybe

[Guest]

re dn, have you previously done a sar on this to include their comms logs? if their logs show that one was sent, and there is nothing to rebut that or its content, then likely to be accepted on balance that one was sent and was compliant.

don't recall atm, was the agreement prior to april 07? if so, they would also usually have to show that there was a signed doc that contained all of the prescribed terms.

re deed, they might have to show how related to you, and explain why redacted.

but, as usual, see what andy says

Edited May 14, 2013 by Ford

[maybelate]

Thanks Ford. No, didn't SAR them because they went in via. the back door and got a CCJ by default by sending claim form to an address that I had moved from, which I managed to get set aside. The agreement goes back to 1998.

 

Regards

Maybe

[Guest]

ok. re dn then could use that and get them to show that one was sent. orig creds logs should show what has been sent/in. eg ask them where are the logs that show this then?

as prior to 07, then s127 (3)(4) consumer cred act should also be relevant (Wilson case) ie no enforcement unless they can show there was a signed prescribed doc?

[Guest]

just had a look at their reply.

they put you to proof re cca non compliance etc! it is for them to prove compliance, they have the initial burden of proof. once (if) they discharge that then for you to rebut.

whilst a copy agreement doesn't have to be attached to a bulk claim, the cpr rules say that the original 'should' be available at hearing. i note that they say that a copy signed agreement is attached. is that so? does it contain all of the prescribed terms?

re assignment, ask citb for that case, if applicable, which says that proof of assignment deed should be available to the debtor.

give andy a shout

Edited May 15, 2013 by Ford

[maybelate]

Hi Ford. yes, they did supply a copy of the CCA, (see post 202 which is an application form with no T's and C's. They sent what they claim to be the T's and C's separately.

 

regards

Maybe

[maybelate]

Hi Andy, sorry to bother you but would you mind taking a look at post no. 308 please and letting me know what you think. Got mediation soon.

 

Thank you

Regards

Maybe

[AndyOrch]

I fully agree with your Post MBL......you are willing to enter into mediation/motions but considering the above I doubt it will be fruitful and the claim proceeds.Mediation is not a trial no one will be compelled to do anything with regards the claim.....you can use it to narrow the differences resulting from the dispute and offer a resolution

ie if you offer this and reduce this I will accept this and pay that...if they dont bite proceed.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[maybelate]

Thanks Andy, that's reassuring

 

Regards

Maybe

[Guest]

maybelate. yes, my posts there are re the claim and poss 'enforceability' issues you mentioned, re court. the mediation is not a court hearing.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Ford

[maybelate]

Reserve that fact for once mediation has proceeded...ADR have no powers to compel disclosure only to mediate.

 

Your Skeleton is a mix between defence and Witness statement in your own words and the main thrust of your dispute/s.You can refer to case law if required.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy,

 

Do I just type out the above and send it to the court and the claimant? Do I need to complete a form of any kind for this/

 

thanks

Maytbe

[AndyOrch]

No form MBL just like a WS but less formal and really just a bullet point of your defence with anything you wish to refer to...you can send copies to them or just serve them on the day...what did it state in your directions timetable?

[maybelate]

Thanks Andy, the directions state that the arguments need to be served 14 days prior to the hearing date (18 June).

 

regards

Maybe

[Guest]

Thanks Andy, the directions state that the arguments need to be served 14 days prior to the hearing date (18 June).

 

regards

Maybe

 

edit 'serve' usually means to the other side? whats the order again verbatim?

Edited May 28, 2013 by Ford

[AndyOrch]

Then serve it pre 14 but also take copies for the day in case the Judge requires another copy

[maybelate]

Hi Ford, the order states:

 

1. The claim be listed for hearing on (date in June) at county court (estimated time 3 hours).

3. The parties do lodge skeleton arguments not less than 14 days prior to the hearing.

 

Also, thanks Andy, I will take a copy for on the day. I had mediation today, it just seemed like the mediator (if that's the correct name for the person) was just trying to talk me into accepting the Claimant's "without prejudice" offer of settlement. I will get the argument for the Skeleton hearing off in the next couple of days as hearing date is getting closer and closer

 

regards

Maybe

[Guest]

'lodge'? lodge with court? with the claimant? so, mediation didn't prove fruitful? no worries, at least you tried.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Ford

[maybelate]

No Ford, mediation seemed very one sided to me but as you said at least I tried

 

regards

Maybe