Racked up personal Debt in Hong kong, now being called in UK by DCA

[travis79]

Hello,

 

Im at my wits end here. My wife and I lived in Hong Kong for ten years and decided to move back to the UK two years ago as our kids are getting to 4 and 6 so wanted them schooled in the UK.

We are both teachers and worked in Asia for all the noughties. While not paid bad, It wasnt a top paying job but we found we could save well enough to put a deposit on a house in the UK and return home. WE exhaused all our savings with the deposit and the expense of coming back, especially seeing as we wouldnt be paid for 4 months until the new term started.

Two months before we came back, our eldest daughter got sick and we had to pay 15K GBP in private medical care in HK which we borrowed from one bank and spread accross out credit cards. We had no savings left and the bank didnt know we were due to leave shortly.I suppose we panicked and were just so delighted that our little one had made a full recovery that we never thought much about repaying, nor could we afford to. We are now down to one job as my wife is incapable of working so cannot afford to contact the bank in HK and start paying back the loan.

 

We have started to receive call from a debt collection agency here in the UK with regard to our Hong Kong debt. Nobody has left a voicemail but i have got a few missed calls and a text message to date. We are not in a position to pay this debt back. We have bills coming out our ears as it is.

 

Is there the possibility that a Hong Kong debt can be legally enforced in the UK? I dont believe there is a recipricol agreement between the two countries.

 

im really at my wits end, 15K GBP + charges and interest would wipe us out.

 

I would really appreciate any advice people might have

 

Regards

 

Travis and Charlotte

[cerberusalert]

They would need to bring an action through a UK court and you could then challenge the jurisdiction. if there are no reciprocal agreements between the UK & HK a UK court would not have the jurisdiction to hear the case.

 

Ignore their calls & messages & wait & see if they send anything by normal post.

[travis79]

They would need to bring an action through a UK court and you could then challenge the jurisdiction. if there are no reciprocal agreements between the UK & HK a UK court would not have the jurisdiction to hear the case.

 

Ignore their calls & messages & wait & see if they send anything by normal post.

 

Thanks mate, Just wondering how they got hold of my mobile number...strange as im not lsited in any directory or social media.

[cerberusalert]

Is it the same number as you had in HK, or one that you've given a creditor in the past?

 

Is there a clear period of six years where you haven't made a payment or a written acknowledgement of the debt? If so it will be Statute Barred anyway.

[travis79]

Is it the same number as you had in HK, or one that you've given a creditor in the past?

 

Is there a clear period of six years where you haven't made a payment or a written acknowledgement of the debt? If so it will be Statute Barred anyway.

 

Thanks for the replyThe debt is two years old do statute barred does not apply im afraid. the mobile they contacted me on is only known to a few people in the uk and the phone company, my bank and perhaps SKY. I usually use my work phone for personal calls etc. I only got it due to the fact that I gopt a great deal on it knowing somebody in apple and it is handy for the kids when out or on a journey so they can watch a movie/play a game and they arent fighting over my wife's phone!We now live in greater London after moving here for a new role, but our family home is over in Northern Ireland so I would be suprised if they knew our address in london given the fact we just rented it a few weeks back so are not on the electoral register or anything. The only thing I have done is resgister for council tax at this current address. any correspondence to the Northern Ireland address would be returned as "return to sender-no longer lives here"I am going to ignore all calls and phone messages...

[cerberusalert]

The bank will have updated your credit file with the information regarding your new address. Your mobile will also show on it.

 

Generally when you apply for credit you will be asked your previous addresses in the past five years.

[travis79]

The bank will have updated your credit file with the information regarding your new address. Your mobile will also show on it.

 

Generally when you apply for credit you will be asked your previous addresses in the past five years.

 

The bank in Hong Kong do not know where i reside now. Are you refering to my UK bank? So the DCA can get access to my personal information via my bank in the UK?

[cerberusalert]

When you were in NI you would have had a UK credit file, if the HK bank knew you were in NI or traced you there they could have checked your credit file. Every time there is new information added they would be alerted to it.

 

Who is the debt collector? If you don't know, what is the number they are using?

[travis79]

The agency is moor croft and they are using 0161 475 2916

[cerberusalert]

They are trying their luck, they haven't a snowballs chance with this.

[travis79]

I hope you are right but I'm sh1tting myself. It could really put us under if we get hit with thousands to pay back

 

I don't mean to be rude but what experience do you have that you can be so sure?....apart from your 28K of posts!

Edited March 28, 2012 by travis79

[cerberusalert]

The law is the law. If there are no reciprocal agreements in place then a UK court cannot hear a case which is governed by HK/Chinese law, they do not have jurisdiction. Even if they could they would still have to adhere to the law that governs any agreement you made.

 

Moorcroft may well be acting on the creditors behalf hoping to earn some quick commission, but they will be loathed to work too hard for it. If they do contact you by mail you can send them the 'Prove It' letter from our library. The onus will then be on them to prove a debt exists and that they have the legal right to collect.... something they'll find difficult to do. When they realise that you are not going to roll over they will pass the a/c back.

 

I don't mean to be rude but what experience do you have that you can be so sure?....apart from your 28K of posts!

I've five years of experience with helping with peoples debt problems & I've been a member of the site team for more than two. I am one of 30 team members which covers a membership of over 315,000. I was asked by the management of CAG if I would be interested in the role, so you figure.

 

All that aside, it is an open forum & if there is anything I say which is incorrect there are numerous people who will and are free to correct me.

[travis79]

I really appreciate all your help. As you can imagine, this debt has me at my wits end

 

Is there somewhere official I can check whether a recipricol agreement is in place between HK and UK? My belief that there is no agreement in place is just based on the "Can I Be Sued For An Overseas Debt?" article in rhe debt section of this website.

[cerberusalert]

The only reciprocal agreement I can find is between mainland China & HK http://www.worldservicesgroup.com/publications.asp?action=article&artid=1765 but reciprocal HK agreements are covered by Foreign Judgments (Reciprocal Enforcement) Ordinance (Cap 319).

[cerberusalert]

Found it;

 

Following the handover, reciprocity between Hong Kong and the UK no longer exists.

 

http://www.asialawprofiles.com/Guide/333/Hong-Kong-litigation-guide.html

[travis79]

as per below, if my bank in HK were to get an order against me there, it would be enforceable in the UK?

 

"However, notwithstanding the lack of formal reciprocal arrangements in the UK and the HKSAR, judgments may still beenforced in each other's jurisdiction under the common law"

[cerberusalert]

That is if a judgment has already been obtained in HK, they can ask a UK court for permission to enforce the judgment but a UK court cannot award a judgment as it is out of jurisdiction.

 

I doubt whether HK law has changed that much and as it was based on UK law I assume the same principle applies where they cannot obtain a judgment in HK against a non-resident. Even if they did & they ask a UK court for permission to enforce you can challenge it on the grounds that you were unable to defend the original judgment.

[cerberusalert]

Litigation in HK is much the same as the UK see attached PDF.

HongKong Litigation.pdf

[travis79]

thanks again.i really appreciate all your efforts.

 

so what should i do now, ignore all calls/voice mails? should i open letters if they are sent to me or should i return them to the sender unopened?

[cerberusalert]

Ignore their calls and voicemails, at the minute they are fishing. Besides the fact that you are under no obligation to enter into conversation with them it would be unwise to do so as they will try and intimidate you and feed you misinformation. In fact they will say things they would not dare commit to paper.

 

If they write to you, update your thread & I will give you a letter to send to them.

[travis79]

Ignore their calls and voicemails, at the minute they are fishing. Besides the fact that you are under no obligation to enter into conversation with them it would be unwise to do so as they will try and intimidate you and feed you misinformation. In fact they will say things they would not dare commit to paper.

 

If they write to you, update your thread & I will give you a letter to send to them.

 

Cheers pal

[Lennon0225]

Cheers pal

 

I am keen to know what the outcome of your issue is or where it stands now. I am in the same dilemma. I stopped paying my hk credit card in year 2011 as i found myself in a difficult position and have not recovered. Just last week i have rreceived an email from a DCA requesting me to call them for a discussion. But prior to this, my friend to which address i have sent my bank statements during my transition here in Aus has informed me that a collector had been in and out of her premises looking for me. am scared and having sleepless nights. I am not able to pay them a single cent at this time.

Should i continue to ignore their emails. Im also afraid they will sooner or kater find out my contact details here in Australia. I do not know what to do. Can you give me advice?

[unclebulgaria67]

I am keen to know what the outcome of your issue is or where it stands now. I am in the same dilemma. I stopped paying my hk credit card in year 2011 as i found myself in a difficult position and have not recovered. Just last week i have rreceived an email from a DCA requesting me to call them for a discussion. But prior to this, my friend to which address i have sent my bank statements during my transition here in Aus has informed me that a collector had been in and out of her premises looking for me. am scared and having sleepless nights. I am not able to pay them a single cent at this time.

Should i continue to ignore their emails. Im also afraid they will sooner or kater find out my contact details here in Australia. I do not know what to do. Can you give me advice?

 

Unlikely they will see your post, because CAG does not automatically inform the original poster, that their thread has a new post.

 

Their position is different, as they returned to the UK, where foreign debts can be enforced. You are in Australia where it is far more difficult. As I said in the other thread you posted, please do get advice in Australia, as CAG is a UK related site, so we cannot help you. I know you are worried, but there is no point posting here.

 

In Australia, there are loads of former residents of HK living there. I suspect that some of them have debts left behind in HK. Why don't you see if you can find an Australian debt advice site or some organisation in Australia for HK ex pats.

 

Here is a link containing contact details for Australian debt advice.

 

https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/managing-your-money/managing-debts/financial-counselling