DVLA Failure to Notify.

[DejaVu]

Got one of these little beauties the today after selling our car to a friend, who had just passed her test, back in June 2011.

 

I don't sell cars too often, I am but a humble car user/driver, so did exactly as was required making sure I did not delay.

 

Posted off the V5 Document on the day of sale and I have a witness to the fact as a neighbor/friend was with me when I posted it.

 

I did not receive anything from the DVLA, so considered everything had been done.

 

The same day I sold my old car, I filled out a V5 for my new vehicle that I also purchased from a friend and posted that V5 off with him and received all the relevant documents within 3 weeks.

 

3 months later, in September, the friend I sold the car to told me they had not received the V5 document, so I told them they need to phone the DVLA and ask why or where it was which they did and got charged the £20ish to get a replacement sent.

 

I thought that would all be the end of it and thought nothing of it.

 

Beginning of December I received the first correspondence from the DVLA ordering me to pay an out of court settlement for £35.

Being that I had done what was asked of me, I replied to the order on 17th January explaining that I thought it was unfair to fine me for something that was out of my control.

 

Mid March, the second correspondence is a court summons with my letter I sent attached.

 

I have been to Citizens Advice and they have arranged for me to see a Paralegal, which I received a call today explaining it needs to be rescheduled.

 

Details on the V5 state -

'Once we know about the changes, you should receive an acknowledgement

letter to confirm that you are no longer responsible for the vehicle. If you do

not receive the letter within 4 weeks, please phone 0300 790 6802.

If you are deaf or hard of hearing and have access to a textphone, phone

0300 123 1279. (This number will not respond to ordinary phones.)'

 

This says to me that if I do not receive a letter within 4 weeks, I can phone them to confirm they received it. This does not seem legally binding to me, the word REQUIRED is not in that statement at all, and the word SHOULD instead of YOU WILL is also noticeable. 'Please Phone' is a also a request and not a requirement!

 

I want to fight this all the way, as I feel it's the DVLA trying to dip further into the pockets of the UK driver yet again.

 

Any advice or example letters I should send would be hugely appreciated.

I'm not up on all these legal matters, but reading some of these forums suggests that Failure To Notify is NOT a legal requirement.

It only becomes an issue for the new owner when the V5 is required for Tax/Proof of Ownership reasons and the DVLA demands a charge for a replacement

 

In hindsight, I could have kept the vehicle registered to myself and allowed the new owner (my friend) to use it instead of going through all this over a stupid clause - thus keeping the number of keepers down too!!

Edited March 21, 2012 by DejaVu

[old bill]

The buffoon that masquerades as the CEO of DVLA knows that DVLA have a court ruling against them in respect of receipt of notifications at DVLA. Motorists have no legal requirement to contact DVLA if they do not receive a letter acknowledging receipt of documents at DVLA.

 

A letter needs to be sent to DVLA reminding them of the court judgement against them. If the court summons is a magistrates' summons, steps need to be taken to have the summons withdrawn. If it is a County Court Summons, I would apply to have it struck-out as an abuse of legal process.

[DejaVu]

This is a Magistrates Summons, so should I write directly to the Magistrates (or the clerk of the court) in answer to the 'Statement of Facts' which says -

 

On the (DATE) the defendant having previously kept motor vehicle (REG NUMBER), failed on the change of keeper of the vehicle, to notify the Secretary of State, forthwith, as required by the regulations.

In accordance with section 12(7) of the Magistrates' Courts Act 1980, the above statement of facts will be read out in court, if you inform the clerk of the court that you plead guilty and wish the court to deal with the case in your absence.'

 

Notice of Penalties

Derived from section 59(2)(a) of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994.

The maximum penalty on conviction for failing to notify a change of keeper of a vehile is £1,000.00.

The prosecutor will also ask for a minimum contribution of £60.00 towards legal costs

 

section 59(2)(a) of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994, that, that is "Derived from" = http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1994/22/section/59

gives no clear information to support the claim for failing to notify is an offence and is also very vague 'section'.

 

I'm thinking a letter to the tune of almost the one I sent originally appealing the fine along with mention I have a witness who is prepared to state they were with me when the letter was posted to the DVLA on the day of the sale.

Edited March 21, 2012 by DejaVu

[old bill]

If my memory serves me correctly, I believe you are seeing a paralegal at your local CAB. Has this appointment taken place yet? You can also go to your local Law Centre about this.

 

This case has Malicious Prosecution written all over it. If the paralegal at the CAB or solicitor at the Law Centre recommend having the summons withdrawn and this happens, I would leave it at that and seek a formal apology from the buffoon who masquerades as the CEO of DVLA.

 

The fact you have an independent witness who saw you post the letter is going to be in your favour. Also, the court ruling against DVLA isn't going to do their case much good either. The onus is on DVLA to prove you didn't notify them. The last time DVLA tried this, it was found the notification had become mislaid at DVLA.

 

My advice is to fight this and get the media onboard as well. The more embarrassment the Secretary of State for Transport incurs because of the buffoon they employ as CEO of DVLA, the quicker they will terminate his appointment, which is Civil Service speak for "sacked".

[DejaVu]

And so tomorrow looms...

 

The paralegal I saw told me to get equipped with any information I can and said I had nothing to worry about.

 

I'm going armed with a printout of Section 7 of the Interpretations Act 1978 and a printout of the 'requirements' for notifying the DVLA with their 'request' for me to phone should I not receive acknowledgement. Together with my original appeal letter (that was sent recorded delivery).

 

I'm planning on explaining in my 'mitigating circumstances' that I had fulfilled my requirement to notify by 'serving' the V5 document to the DVLA on the date of the sale via 1st Class post and did not realise I was under any obligation to send it recorded (albeit in hindsight I should have!)

 

If there is anything else I should consider printing to aid my defense, please let me know ASAP. I know I've left this til the last minute, but I've chose to forget about it til the event to ease the stress.

 

Will post the outcome once I know more. Watch this space.

[old bill]

And so tomorrow looms...

 

The paralegal I saw told me to get equipped with any information I can and said I had nothing to worry about.

 

I'm going armed with a printout of Section 7 of the Interpretations Act 1978 and a printout of the 'requirements' for notifying the DVLA with their 'request' for me to phone should I not receive acknowledgement. Together with my original appeal letter (that was sent recorded delivery).

 

I'm planning on explaining in my 'mitigating circumstances' that I had fulfilled my requirement to notify by 'serving' the V5 document to the DVLA on the date of the sale via 1st Class post and did not realise I was under any obligation to send it recorded (albeit in hindsight I should have!)

 

If there is anything else I should consider printing to aid my defense, please let me know ASAP. I know I've left this til the last minute, but I've chose to forget about it til the event to ease the stress.

 

Will post the outcome once I know more. Watch this space.

 

Yes. Remind the oaf who pretends to be the CEO at DVLA that DVLA has a court judgement against them for exactly the hassle they're engaging in with you. I would also make a formal complaint against the Chief Numpty to his bosses, the Permanent Secretary and Secretary of State at the Department for Transport.

 

The postal address for the Department for Transport is -

 

Department for Transport

Great Minster House

33 Horseferry Road

LONDON

SW1P 4DR

[Number6]

Excuse me butting in, but I have the same problem.

 

Should I start a new thread?

[Number6]

And so tomorrow looms...

 

The paralegal I saw told me to get equipped with any information I can and said I had nothing to worry about.

 

I'm going armed with a printout of Section 7 of the Interpretations Act 1978 and a printout of the 'requirements' for notifying the DVLA with their 'request' for me to phone should I not receive acknowledgement. Together with my original appeal letter (that was sent recorded delivery).

 

I'm planning on explaining in my 'mitigating circumstances' that I had fulfilled my requirement to notify by 'serving' the V5 document to the DVLA on the date of the sale via 1st Class post and did not realise I was under any obligation to send it recorded (albeit in hindsight I should have!)

 

If there is anything else I should consider printing to aid my defense, please let me know ASAP. I know I've left this til the last minute, but I've chose to forget about it til the event to ease the stress.

 

Will post the outcome once I know more. Watch this space.

 

How did it go?

[old bill]

Excuse me butting in, but I have the same problem.

 

Should I start a new thread?

 

No. Stay on this thread if you have the same problem. Contact your local Law Centre and seek advice as to how to proceed. They offer free legal advice. Follow the advice you are given. Also follow the advice given to DejaVu on this thread.

[Number6]

The buffoon that masquerades as the CEO of DVLA knows that DVLA have a court ruling against them in respect of receipt of notifications at DVLA. Motorists have no legal requirement to contact DVLA if they do not receive a letter acknowledging receipt of documents at DVLA.

 

A letter needs to be sent to DVLA reminding them of the court judgement against them. If the court summons is a magistrates' summons, steps need to be taken to have the summons withdrawn. If it is a County Court Summons, I would apply to have it struck-out as an abuse of legal process.

 

Can anyone tell me what the court ruling referred to above is? Any link to the judgement?

[old bill]

Can anyone tell me what the court ruling referred to above is? Any link to the judgement?

 

The ruling was made in respect of a case in 2010 where DVLA took a motorist to court, claiming he had a duty to inform them if he didn't receive an acknowledgement letter in respect of notification of changes, etc.. The judge at the hearing threw out DVLA's case and ruled that DVLA had no power and there was no legal requirement for motorists to contact DVLA if they did not receive an acknowledgement letter in respect of changes, etc..

 

The case is mentioned in a clip on BBC i-player on the Watchdog website and is on the lower i-player window on the page. The relevant link is as follows -

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2010/05/dvla_in_the_dock.html

 

Hope this is of help to you.

[Number6]

The ruling was made in respect of a case in 2010 where DVLA took a motorist to court, claiming he had a duty to inform them if he didn't receive an acknowledgement letter in respect of notification of changes, etc.. The judge at the hearing threw out DVLA's case and ruled that DVLA had no power and there was no legal requirement for motorists to contact DVLA if they did not receive an acknowledgement letter in respect of changes, etc..

 

The case is mentioned in a clip on BBC i-player on the Watchdog website and is on the lower i-player window on the page. The relevant link is as follows -

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2010/05/dvla_in_the_dock.html

 

Hope this is of help to you.

 

Thanks Old Bill, every little helps...

 

Does anyone have a case number I can refer to in court?

[old bill]

Thanks Old Bill, every little helps...

 

Does anyone have a case number I can refer to in court?

 

Your best course of action is to contact the Watchdog team at the BBC. I believe their email address is watchdog@bbc.co.uk.

[jonnyseptember]

Count me in, I have one too. Just missed the judgement and am sending in a statutory declaration stating i didnt recieve notice of the hearing. It is OUTRAGEOUS.

[Sweepeep]

I have a similar problem. I have been visited by a bailiff telling me to pay 450 pounds as I failed to notify DVLA in 2005 of a change. I have written to the DVLA as not only can I categorically state I know nothing about this and have no correspondence telling me of such an event nor can I remember that far back.

 

Something I do know is that when I have made ANY change in the past I have always notified the company its associated with! Now I'm scared to open my front door however I hope I'll get some response from DVLA regarding this charge

 

Anyone got any further advice? Also, as this bailiff tells me the issue happened 7 years ago why are they suddenly chasing me now?

[old bill]

I have a similar problem. I have been visited by a bailiff telling me to pay 450 pounds as I failed to notify DVLA in 2005 of a change. I have written to the DVLA as not only can I categorically state I know nothing about this and have no correspondence telling me of such an event nor can I remember that far back.

 

Something I do know is that when I have made ANY change in the past I have always notified the company its associated with! Now I'm scared to open my front door however I hope I'll get some response from DVLA regarding this charge

 

Anyone got any further advice? Also, as this bailiff tells me the issue happened 7 years ago why are they suddenly chasing me now?

 

What are they chasing you for? If anything, it's likely to be that DVLA have messed-up, or mislaid or lost documentation at DVLA, at Swansea. Fire a letter off to DVLA, addressing it to the Chief Muppet, sorry, Chief Executive, copying it to the Permanent Secretary at the Department for Transport and the Secretary of State for Transport. The address is in Post #6. The person who masquerades as the CEO of DVLA is an oaf and should be fired as, since he took over, the number of complaints and serious foul-ups have increased dramatically.

[Sweepeep]

Thank you, Old Bill. I telephoned DVLA who told me to write to the local enforcement office so I have done so. They told me their records don't go back 7 years! Who's do?! Do you think I should write to the CEO as well and copy him the letter I've already sent?

[old bill]

I would certainly write to the CEO at DVLA, copying the letter you have already sent. Ultimately, as CEO, he is vicariously liable for the foul-ups his staff make. I would also send copies to the Permanent Secretary and Secretary of State for Transport at the address in Post #6. The Permanent Secretary is in overall charge of the Department for Transport on a day-to-day basis and is a civil servant. He or she is in their post until they retire, are sacked, resign or die in service. The Secretary of State, on the other hand, is a politician and can be removed by the Prime Minister, other MPs or the electorate. DVLA has been involved in some serious incidents since its current CEO took over and I am very surprised he is still in post.

 

I would be inclined to head your letter FORMAL COMPLAINT as, then, they have to do something about it. Also, when sending it, mark the outside of the envelope PRIVATE & CONFIDENTIAL - TO BE OPENED BY ADDRESSEE ONLY. This means only the person to whom it is addressed can open the letter and remove its contents. Very handy when you're dealing with the CEOs of local councils over CT disputes and problems, too.

[Sweepeep]

Ok, will get onto that this evening! Thank you

[old bill]

You're welcome.

[jonnyseptember]

Best thing to do is ask the Bailiff which court made the judgement against you. Contact the court and tell them you wish to sign a statutory declaration and explain that this is the first you heard of the legal proceedings against you. The staff will allow you to go to the court and the judgement will be quashed when you sign a STATUTORY DECLARATION.

 

DVLA will have begin the negotiations all over again.

 

Next thing is do a 'subject access' to the DVLA. Ask for all recordings of phone conversations, copies of all financial transactions, correspondance, database records they have on you, (MR JOHN SMITH,@ your address etc).

 

IF the DVLA start writing nonesense again tell them you will reply after you have reviewed the information on this request.

 

You will get them to stop chasing you if you find they have the notification and are telling lies, or you ask for evidence that the notice was not recieved according to the Interpretation Act you are supposed to post the letter and I am sure that you did.

 

You will also be asking which act of parliament states that you have an obligation to let them know they havn't recieved the post and whether you will recieve administration fees were offered for this work.

 

Ask lots of questions but remember you will always be willing to pay if they can provide the answers. There is NO CONTROVERSY, YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY ON CONDITION THEY ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS.

 

They also talk about the home secretary giving them power...you ask for this 'claim' to be substatiated by veiwing the said document which states this is applicable to you (This doesnt exist, it is only implied)

 

Those are my tips, I have a similar case myself, The Stat Dec is your first step for sure.

[jonnyseptember]

Best thing to do is ask the Bailiff which court made the judgement against you. Contact the court and tell them you wish to sign a statutory declaration and explain that this is the first you heard of the legal proceedings against you. The staff will allow you to go to the court and the judgement will be quashed when you sign a STATUTORY DECLARATION.

 

DVLA will have begin the negotiations all over again.

 

Next thing is do a 'subject access' to the DVLA. Ask for all recordings of phone conversations, copies of all financial transactions, correspondance, database records they have on you, (MR JOHN SMITH,@ your address etc).

 

IF the DVLA start writing nonesense again tell them you will reply after you have reviewed the information on this request.

 

You will get them to stop chasing you if you find they have the notification and are telling lies, or you ask for evidence that the notice was not recieved according to the Interpretation Act you are supposed to post the letter and I am sure that you did.

 

You will also be asking which act of parliament states that you have an obligation to let them know they havn't recieved the post and whether you will recieve administration fees were offered for this work.

 

Ask lots of questions but remember you will always be willing to pay if they can provide the answers. There is NO CONTROVERSY, YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY ON CONDITION THEY ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS.

 

They also talk about the home secretary giving them power...you ask for this 'claim' to be substatiated by veiwing the said document which states this is applicable to you (This doesnt exist, it is only implied)

 

Those are my tips, I have a similar case myself, The Stat Dec is your first step for sure.

[old bill]

Absolutely agree, Jonnyseptember. In addition to the SAR under the DPA, I would suggest a FOIA request, requiring DVLA to disclose the legislation they are relying upon, as well. That way you have the backing of legislation to force them to prove they are acting within the law. There is also the Human Rights Act you can use in that they cannot penalise you if no offence exists in law.

[jonnyseptember]

I did a FOI request asking how much they made out of this procecution from 2010 to 2012 Check this out. They turned over 14.5 million pounds doing this from 2010 to 2012.

 

 

£14,524,925

[Barnard85]

hi, I have recently received a letter from Martsons Group, saying that i have an unpaid fine,

Now i have posted this in a section where by someone got a letter from these baliffs there also.. .but it goes further..

I have received information from marstons saying that this fine was due to "failure to notify the secretary of state of a notification"

But my story is;

 

I have only ever had one car in my name, and i changed it over to my father in laws name as its cheaper for me an my family to insure me as a named driver.

now, i know the v5 is now in his name an has been for around 2 years.

Never took the vehicle off the road and always been taxed on time.

 

Can anyone help on why i would have this "failure to notify", or even what i can do about it?