who owns my mortgage?

[miss money worry]

Hi, can anyone tell me how i find out if my original mortgage lender 'sold on' my mortgage to a third party and now only 'services' it. I'm sure you know what i mean without me going on and on!! I would like to know if there are any template letters on here which i could use to request this information from them in a legal manner/jargon!

 

Thanks

[miss money worry]

this post has had 217 views yet nobody has posted!! Does anyone know about this!! please?>!! x

[gemspan]

Hi there

 

Sorry nobody has answered...... but I'd suggest that you send a SAR (subject access request). You'll find the template in the stickies. You need to send £10 with the SAR and they have 40 days from the date they receive it, to give you all the details they hold on your mortgage.

 

Good luck

Gemspan

[miss money worry]

Hya,thanks for acknowledging me! I have already sent this, a year ago...they have not complied. all i get is the standard...sorry we have not been able to resolve your complaint within the alloted 8 weeks blah blah blah. its a long story ...but i am wanting to know if they securitized my mortgage nad i'm going to try to claim unenforceability. i'm in a right mess because of the ex. thanks. x

[citizenB]

I am not sure that you will be able to claim the mortgage is unenforceable due to securitisation. If you pop "securitisation" into the advanced search engine at the top right, there was a discussion thread a couple of years ago.

[assisted blonde]

Your details at the land registry will show any charges/mortgages against your property and who they belong to

[tifo]

The bank is unlikely to tell you who it sold your mortgage to. They will cite it as a commercial decision. If it doesn't affect how the bank treat you then it makes no difference, according to FSA/FOS.

 

Mine was sold in 2005 and 2010 and before that I have many arrears charges. The FSA/FOS have judged that the charges are fair because I was in arrears! They also said securitisation makes no difference to how my account is run by the bank and they do not interfere in commercial decisions.

[mercyblue]

The land registry wont reflect who own it they only sell the equitable title not the legal title (actually the same would happen if you went bankrupt and the offical receiver took control of your house). You would be better checking your house insurance and see who is noted as an interested party.

[miss money worry]

Thanks for the replies. I am pretty sure that as the lender sold my mortgage on (yet to be confirmed), that they wouldl have no standing in court to try to repossess my house as they have no beneficial interest and do not own the loan. They have to produce an original wet ink signed contract between themselves and I, which they will not have as they have sold it on. From what i have researched its a simple yet complicated fact. However, a court judge in USA ruled in favour of the mortgagee in a similar case and deemed the mortgage repossession unenforceable.!

[tifo]

a court judge in USA ruled in favour of the mortgagee in a similar case and deemed the mortgage repossession unenforceable.!

 

It's different in the US. Over there they complete the sale and sell the mortgage whilst here they don't complete the sale and thus it is equitable only. However, they all act as if the sale is completed. It's very hard getting through this.

[miss money worry]

i know about this tuling in the USA. However, national and international laws are difficult to assess. For an international law to become so, it has first to be ruled as a national law, therefore becoming law in the national area. its quite complicates and i'm still researching this area but i am pretty sure it will be in the legislation somewhere...just very well hidden hhahah

[Lea_HTH]

You're almost certainly barking up the wrong tree. There is nothing illegal or underhand about securitisation, it's just another word for selling shares in a company that owns the mortgage. If you check your mortgage terms and conditions, you'll see that you almost certainly signed up to a clause that allows this. Ergo, if you failed to pay your mortgage, then court proceedings can (and will) follow - and the standing of the company making the claim would not be in question. There is no requirement for a 'wet ink' contract between you and the securitisation company - the transaction doesn't involve you, it's between the original mortgagee and the securitisation company.

 

With respect to US laws, they are different state by state, and are frankly not binding in any way, shape or form, on English law, unless they have been formally incorporated. Since mortgages and forfeiture are different in the US (in most states) to repossession in England and Wales, the likelihood of any such ruling in the US becoming law in England and Wales is slim to none.

[tifo]

its quite complicates and i'm still researching this area but i am pretty sure it will be in the legislation somewhere...just very well hidden hhahah

 

though i am against securitisation there is simply NOTHING in the UK that emulates the US in terms of mortgage securities.

[applecart]

Hi Miss Money Worry,

 

I for one certainly understand exactly where you are coming from on this.

 

But, you will have a battle on your hands if it is your intention to move your claim forward purely on the basis of 'securitisation' alone, because it is widely accepted that securitisation of mortgages is accepted and does not impact on your debt to your lender given the findings in Pender v Paragon.

 

It is a very clever LiP (because you will be hard pushed to find a solicitor who will fight the battle for you) that can show the 'effect' and 'impact' that securitisation has on your right to legal redress to effect the legal termination of your mortgage agreement regardless of the fact that the originals lenders name remains on your register at HMLR.

 

Apple

[ims21]

All off topic discussion posts that were originally in this thread are now here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?358093-Mortgage-Securitisation-Discussion-Thread

 

Please now carry on the discussion on that new thread and leave this one for the OP's specific query.

 

Thanks

[applecart]

The Op wanted to know who owns the mortgage...

 

I have debated this securitisation issue in depth... I've seen the MSA's, POA's etc.. and continue to discuss them and their effects given the substantive applicable Law and the effect on the mortgage generated between the Lender and the underlying borrower.

 

I have concluded, having read this post that... it is not necessary for you to get copies of the securitisation documents per se... it's great if you can, but don't worry if you can't..

 

The disclosure will not affect your right to see where the relationship between you and the lender stands....(in fact, it will be less confusing for Judges if you don't mention securitisation at all... the minute you do... they immediately think of Paragon v Pender and will cause you to defend that authority...if you are not clued up, then you will fail, in fact - even if you are clued up, they do their best to ensure you fail - far too much at stake... if you get my drift...)

 

The quickest and easiest way to find out if you and your lender have a legal relationship is to get a copy of the mortgage deeds from HMLR.... the official copy of which is permissible in a court of Law as having the same effect as if it is the original ... LRA 2002 s.67 (this way, you don't even have to let the lender know that you are making any enquiries - you are simply exercising your right to information that concerns you from a reliable source)

 

If both you and the lender have signed it, then you have a legally binding relationship with the lender - if they have securitised, then you will need evidence of the sale, to effect a challenge that the lenders rights operate in equity only - but, this is not proving to be the easiest thing to do...

 

If only you have signed it, and the lender has not, then you don't have a legally binding relationship - you would be able to move a challenge forward without having to mention securitisation of the mortgage, and base your entire challenge on the void deeds.

 

I hope this helps?

 

Apple

[Angel58]

My Re Mortgage was through a lender in the Sub Prime Market.They left the lending Market from what it appears to be about 2009 because they had huge financial difficulties and had to get rid of 180 staff.They never informed me they weren't lenders when I went with my problem to them to see if my mortgage could be changed etc.They are still on The Title Deeds but as I'm in arrears and have been paying by cheque what I can, they let slip that the Mortgage is with Barclays as I'd sent the cheque payable to wrong dept of their company.Whether it's been with Barclays from the beginning I don't know.

[applecart]

My Re Mortgage was through a lender in the Sub Prime Market.They left the lending Market from what it appears to be about 2009 because they had huge financial difficulties and had to get rid of 180 staff.They never informed me they weren't lenders when I went with my problem to them to see if my mortgage could be changed etc.They are still on The Title Deeds but as I'm in arrears and have been paying by cheque what I can, they let slip that the Mortgage is with Barclays as I'd sent the cheque payable to wrong dept of their company.Whether it's been with Barclays from the beginning I don't know.

 

Hi Angel

 

If I understand you correctly.... your original lender is no more... you are paying a different lender, yet, the lender that is no more - is still on the title to your estate/home?

 

Normally records held at Companies House would show if a Company is dissolved - but with sub=prime lenders - they continue to submit records to Companies House to give the illusion that they remain solvent and trading.... so, that will not assist you....However for a £1 it is worth having a look... you can get records of their financial statements for the year prior to 2009 and forward - each copy costs a £1....

 

Who is the mortgage administrating Company? or better put... to your knowledge, who is administering your mortgage... who's name is on the letters you get from your purported mortgage lender?

 

Apple

[Angel58]

It's Central Trust or as they are known now C T Capital.I'm sure they've changed the name on the deeds Seems that they are always changing something Directors etc.I do have a copy from the Land Registry.

[applecart]

Hi Angel58

 

Thank you for coming back to me. Apologies for not getting back to you sooner.

 

I've had a quick look into Central Trust (only a quick look)

 

You say the original lender is still on the Title held at HMLR - I take from your post that you have a copy of the mortgage deed as well.....Has the Original Lender signed the Deed?

 

If not....in the first instance, I refer you to the thread Ben created on 'Mortgage Deeds - does the Lender have to sign it?'

 

The thread holds a lot of information that may assist you - if you have further questions, just shout : )

 

Apple