Just had CCCS DM review. Is a IVA the way to go?

[sequenci]

I sure have. I think the housekeeping figure is still workable. My other half and I live on £240 a month for groceries, that includes cat food etc. too. We don't have special dietary requirements. I would imagine things might get difficult when children are added into the mix.

 

The traveling costs are the killer, though, our fuel costs are at least £300 a month with a future £40 or so for trains and then insurance, tax, maintenance etc. Fuel prices are at an all-time high and they will no doubt go higher due to the pending fuel duty increases and the uncertainty in Iran etc. We could do with a mechanism that allows for these changes to filter through to the likes of the CFS figures AND those used by the aforementioned, also the Insolvency Service and the judiciary too.

 

For the record, I like DMPs, I think they work very well for a significant portion of those struggling with their debts. As much as I love seeing people empower themselves via self-negotiation there are those that simply cannot or don't want to deal with the creditors themselves - and often for very good reasons. Many of the creditors don't make it easy with their debt collection processes, payday loan firms especially!

[Wintry]

Hi sequenci

 

People and families with children could probably live on £50 per month food if they if existed on bread and water etc.

 

The whole idea / point of why guideline / trigger figures such as the CFS are claculated / formulated http://www.cfs.moneyadvicetrust.org/ is to allow people to live properly and not just exist / get further into debt / suffer health & relationship problems due to stress & worry. Also lets not forget where children are concerned that they have a right to enjoy an everyday life and should not be penalised just because someone has been unfortunate enough to get into debt. If people choose to cut their cloth tighter than others then that is their choice but this should not be used as an excuse for agencies to 'pursuade' other people to live on less and the guideline figures are there as a safety net and are recognised by the Office of Fair Trading as keeps being alluded to on this forum.

 

People should not really have to beg for more travel allowances for fuel etc by 'proving' their mileage costs, worried if they can afford to put an extra gallon of petrol in their car, to get to work or take the kids somewhere, not be able to pay for repairs, its not the gestapo they are dealing with its an organistation that is receiving money for dealing with their debts, they are supposed to be independently working for the client, not the other way round. This again is why these guideline / trigger figures are calculated / formulated by the powers that be - below is what the home page of the CFS says - I happen to strongly agree

 

"The Common Financial Statement (CFS) was born out of a commitment from its sponsors to create a uniform approach to how financial statements are prepared, to encourage consistent responses from creditors.

This should mean that when someone is faced with a difficult financial situation, a fair resolution can be found without undue delay."

 

Also advisers have to know what to advise with regard to expenditure allowances or what chance have they got on giving accurate information on any debt remedy and how can that be right for people in debt. How can you have one set of figures for one solution and a different set for another it is absolute nonsense and not in the interests of people in debt, this is especially so where face to face advice is concerned as the client can come back time and time again asking what is going on, very different from being miles away at the end of a telephone.

 

I agree with some of your points on Debt Management Plans but they have to be flexible in numerous ways and probably will have to be even more so taking into account the economic situation and the frightening changes in benefits and tax credits which will affect many. There will always be people who use the free DMP providers and the fee chargers for that matter as it can be much easier if someone else administers the DMP and people have the right to choose. I happen to think that more and more people will manage their own Debt Mnagement Plans in the future one reason being the ease of dealing with changes n circumstances where reduction in payments are concerned compared to having to try to talk to someone miles away at the end of the telephone whos organisation is being paid or receiving monies (which in my opinion has to be a slight conflict of interest at least). The powers that be and the OFT are trying to make things easier for people to manage their debts themselves where they can and I happen to believe that things have now changed and may never be the same again as far as Debt Management Plans are concerned, slow but sure change. There is Cashflow and now the new CAB system that keep being referred to on here for example.

 

There are agencies that have entry criteria for Debt Management Plans such as a minimum amounts of debt and disposable income and maybe like to calculate a DMP that is paid off in say 10 years. The danger here is that perhaps independent / impartial advice might... "lets say fray at the edges a little" as to making the figures fit the solution and maybe guideline allowances floating in and out the window so to speak. And what happens when people have a negative change in circumstances that takes them below this entry criteria, do these agencies still administer their Debt Management Plans or do they say go elswhere or manage the plan yourself like what probably happens if they do not fit the criteria in the first place?

 

Debt advice is not just about Debt Managemen Plans, IVAs and bankruptcy eg where fees, payments, contributions and donations to the agencies and companies are concerned and my opinion on this is that it is hard to put up a convincing argument as to being completely independent and impartial.

 

Why do agencies not put up guidence and trigger figures for people to gauge and use (correct me if I am wrong but I dont think the Cashflow system does this either) whats the big secret - the OFT guidelines clearly state that if people manage their own plan then creditors should follow the rules so why not help people by giving them some guidelines and figures to work with (the CAB system does exactly that). Also the CAB system is not funded by banks and creditors and no payments are made to them.

 

My opinion is that some agencies may well have taken their eye off the ball a little and perhaps are set on a rigid business type plan course that will be genuinely challenged and tested over the coming months mainly due to economic pressures and maybe by another agency or two. How they deal with these challenges in the long run remains to be seen, but they won't be going away you can trust me on that one.

 

My opinions sequenci and I and others will be sticking to them come what may.

[Wintry]

Hi

 

With regard to changes in tax credits & benefits I have mentioned.

 

Information below on changes in child & working tax credits April 2012 (well worth reading for anyone in receipt of tax credits as you may be affected so best to be prepared)

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/TaxCredits/DG_194914

 

Housing Benefit

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/On_a_low_income/DG_192415

 

Also more changes in benefits in the pipeline (universal credit)

 

http://www.turn2us.org.uk/information__resources/benefits/news_and_changes/benefit_changes/universal_credit.aspx

 

Advice agency nightmares some are calling these.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Wintry

[Wintry]

Thank you.

 

Words of encouragement are very helpful.

 

I have looked into redundancy options and what will happen and I hopefully will be able to claim contribution based JSA for 6 months. Hoping to be able to go to college and retrain as I have been made redundant 4 times in 5 years. Which is part of the reason why we are in this mess to start with.

 

I'm going to see how I go on the plan for the next two months and if I am struggling (which I think I will I will seek another opinion). If i am redundant by the end of March, it will need looking at again anyway.

 

Another thing is that I told the advisor I could really do with make some allowance in the plan for my partner to pass his driving licence as this will lead to a promotion for him resulting in more take home pay. She said we would review that at our next review in four months time.

 

xx

 

Hi laalinz

 

I get what you are saying, hope you get the support you need and deserve

 

Your entitlement to Contribution Based JSA will depend on your National Insurance contributions over the last few years as you are probably already aware (useful link below)

 

http://www.turn2us.org.uk/information__resources/benefits/working_or_looking_for_work/jobseekers_allowance.aspx

 

You might also find this link helpful with regard to tax credits and the changes coming in April 2012 (not long really)

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/TaxCredits/DG_194914

 

With regard to what you have put about the driving licence etc, I have already had my head in my hands as to CCCS in this case, shocking stuff really (in my opinion) but to be fair no organisation is perfect I suppose and I am not one for blaming individuals.

 

Good luck and keep us updated if you can and always remember that debt can be sorted one way or another

 

PS - Peer, if you are looking in, you are more than welcome to comment on what I have put if you wish.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Wintry

[laalinz]

Thanks for the links,

 

I have worked with only a one week unemployment break for just over 2 years so hopefully I should have paid enough NI on a 20 per week job at NMW........

 

We should still qualify for Tax credits as my partner works 50 per week but his income is less then the threshold so fingers crossed I should still be ok. Must say I did not realise that they had reduced the threshold so much!! that is going to hit a lot of families hard!

[Jon1965]

Hi

I appreciate that you are very stressed at the moment but I am incensed by the treatment you received from cccs. For a start council tax arrears are a priority debt and although maybe should be listed separately they need including. If you can face it just let Cccs know the name and time of the call, they should be able to investigate without you going through the hassel of an official complaint. You may help someone less able than you.

IVA rules have changed, but remember that if it fails the only way forward would be bankruptcy.

Good luck...oh and btw never beat yourself up about your debts. They happened and you are now taking steps to put them right so well done. However if writing them down helps you to you then go for it

[brokebutnotbeatn]

It does sound as if you had a rogue advisor; I would push back hard as you are entitled to a quality of life and also things like driving license money etc so this advisor is talking tosh. I would poush back as there is no point in starting a plan you can't then stick to!

[laalinz]

I have just been told I will be made redundant and will get my notice on Friday so the plan that resulted from my review is no good now anyway.

 

Another thing I forgot to mention was, that the advisor was pushing the IVA. She said that to clear my debts within the ten year government allowed period she would need at least £340 per month of me.

 

But after doing more research about IVA's its definitely not an option I am able to go down. I need the flexibility of the DMP as jobs are so unsure these days.

 

She said that even if we could clear it in ten years my daughter would be 17 (she must have thought I couldn't do the math) and strongly suggested we discuss the IVA on our next review.

 

With regard to complaining I really don't want to "rock the boat" with them so to speak.

 

I got the telling off today in written correspondence saying that if I took any further credit my contract with them would be terminated. This unsecured loan was not further credit, it is in fact the oldest debt I own. I just misunderstood it.

[Jon1965]

This won't go down well BUT

Ask them how they get the funding? From what I know they get a % of everything you pay.

As for the crap of 10 years allowed where did that come from, if you payed 340 that would be over 40K which is your entire debt , so what is the point of adding IVA charges. The idea of an IVA is to clear your debts more quickly by making an offer to be paid over 5 years which gives the creditors SOME of their money back.

I knopw people rave about cccs , personally I have no view other than fact based information. They may work for some people but by the sounds of it not you.

If you can face it there are people on here who can help you run your own DMP with proforma letters, allowable income and expenditure as well as payplan who I believe are free.

This woman needs a bloody good kicking, she sounds like the sort of **** who work for DCA not someone who works for a supposedly free consumer help service.

[MandM]

If you can face it there are people on here who can help you run your own DMP with proforma letters, allowable income and expenditure .

 

Quite correct. Many do, me included. Fell into trouble in 2009 and have been running our own ever since. Not as hard as you may think and plenty of info on these forums.

 

Mike

[Wintry]

Hi

 

This link has been put up on another site - amongst others the figures on food and car costs took me back a little to be honest. The £130 relating to car fuel & parking costs as mentioned by the O/P is clearly visible.

 

http://www.insolvency-practitioners.org.uk/uploads/PressPublications/Budget%20Guidelines%20Report%202011.pdf

 

Sorry guys but these figures do appear to be in the public domain and like I have said before and with the OFT guidelines in mind, what is the big secret?

 

oooer! - Minimum, guideline & maximum - I wonder how this works?

 

Very interesting reading, anyone wish to comment on this open forum?

Edited February 25, 2012 by Wintry

[Jon1965]

Interesting figures , and in my opinion a lot of potential costs missing but I guess they vary so wildly that you can not estimate them, e.g council tax, water etc. On the other hand some of the allowances seem almost generous, max of £50 a week for food cleaning etc.

Min and max I can understand why, depending on where you live etc although why some people would need to spend double on food etc is beyond me .

I guess this should be a framework with spaces for all the other essential bills

[Wintry]

Interesting figures , and in my opinion a lot of potential costs missing but I guess they vary so wildly that you can not estimate them, e.g council tax, water etc. On the other hand some of the allowances seem almost generous, max of £50 a week for food cleaning etc.

Min and max I can understand why, depending on where you live etc although why some people would need to spend double on food etc is beyond me .

I guess this should be a framework with spaces for all the other essential bills

 

Hi Jon

 

Speaking for myself I would say that you are right on the variables, as with any Financial Statement figures for council tax, rent, mortgage, secured loans, board & lodgings, gas, electric, coal & fuel oil, water, CSA etc would have to be variable by their nature (if it was to make any sense that is) - any arrears on this type of priority expenditure / debt would also usually have be set out seperate on a Financial Statement.

 

Could also be said about some other allowances really, depending on circumstances of course

 

Very interesting read though if you look closely:) any body for the CFS?

 

Also this looks like the 2010 & 2011 versions - The month of March 2012 begins next week so perhaps they will soon be a little out of date, I dont know?

Edited February 25, 2012 by Wintry

[laalinz]

Just had a distressing phonecall which resulted in my phoning CCCS to ask why Northern Rock were saying that no payment plan was in place for the unsecured element of my mortgage. When I pointed out this on was a DMP with CCCS the lady said that this was currently on going and that no such arrangement had being agreed. They were still outstanding paperwork from CCCS so this is why they have rang me everyday!

 

I rang CCCS and the lady informed me that they had spoke to Northern Rock last week and the paperwork was sent out to them now. Yet I have a letter saying that they could confirm that NRAM debt had being added to my DMP dated 23 March. I feel like CCCS have failed me. I am currently awaiting notification from JSA with regard to any money I will get, then I will be transfering my DMP to someone else. I feel SO let down by CCCS the past few months.

[brokebutnotbeatn]

whomsoever you have a DMP with will need chasing - the upside is its one organisation to sit on about several debts, the downside is it puts you one removed from the creditor. Why not maange the plan yourself then you will be in control? If you have the time its much the best way of doing things? Be aware that DMPs take several months to settle down; CCCS have not really 'let you down' its just the games the creditors play...

[laalinz]

whomsoever you have a DMP with will need chasing - the upside is its one organisation to sit on about several debts, the downside is it puts you one removed from the creditor. Why not maange the plan yourself then you will be in control? If you have the time its much the best way of doing things? Be aware that DMPs take several months to settle down; CCCS have not really 'let you down' its just the games the creditors play...

 

I have felt let down with CCCS since the phonecall which made me start this thread. Up until then I was very happy and relieved that the stress of creditors calling had gone.

 

I do understand that DMP take several months to settle down. But I have had two months of NRAM calling me everyday about this payment plan. It's not until someone managed to catch me in today that I discovered that the unsecured part of my together mortgage had not being added to my DMP (ever though I have a letter from CCCS stating that it had dated 23 March 2012).

 

I did chase CCCS today as it is them who I have the DMP with and they said that paperwork had being sent to NRAM last week, yet I had the "telling off" from CCCS early February when I enquired about the unsecured part of the together mortgage going onto my DMP with CCCS at my review. Hence the "feling of being let down by CCCS"

[brokebutnotbeatn]

Ok. Fair enough. I am not a CCCS fan myself. I think they have a range of advisors from the downright apalling to the utterly fantastic and its unfortunately luck of the draw. Keep on them and you'll get there. And keep on at them re frozen interest - they are not necessarily good at that part especially after your plan has been running 5 months and needs renewing.

[laalinz]

Just don't feel up to running the DMP myself just yet as I have only had 8 months on DMP with CCCS. I will get there just not yet. I am seriously thinking of going to Payplan though as I was nearly in tears after my review in February as the advisor was far from compassionate and this today with NRAM has stressed me out.

[brokebutnotbeatn]

My advice is stick with it; but also stick to your guns with CCCS. It will settle down and get easier.