How to remove a lender's continuous payment authority

[charlysays85]

I think to be honest, I will report them to the FSA. I will be phoning the FSA tonight anyway, as I want as much ammo as I can get. I have asked whether the phone calls are being recorded the past 3 times I've called, and been told yes, but I think my next step will be to write a letter and hand it in.It's good to know I'm not going completley bonkers, as it seems every time I speak to Natwest, they have a new way of wiggling out of it, and I doubt myself. If the bank does refund you, do they claim that money back off the companies (i.e. you still owe the full amount again?)Thanks again!

[renegadeimp]

What you could do is SAR them to get those recordings and hand them to the FSA if they request them. Love to see the bank wriggle out of that one then.

 

As for your last question, yes. You still owe the companies the full amount as in essence, youve simply been issued a refund.

[Iain May]

First post and happily it's a pleasant one.

 

I have an HSBC advance account and called them today to request cancellation of all CPAs attached to my current account. When I called last week I was told this was not possible (cue frantic reading and landing on this website...).

 

Happily today the nice lady said she had just been on a training course on how to deal with these, and had a process to follow...job done! You just have to answer 3 questions saying yes I understand and you are sorted.

 

I did have to point out that under the law that now they had received this instruction they would have to give me an immediate refund should the "new process" fail. You can quote them their own T&Cs for this (look for the pdf on their website entitled "General terms and conditions Current account terms and conditions Savings accounts terms and conditions 1st April 2012" - look for section 26.5.1).

 

I cannot comment on regular account holders though as advance gets you through to a UK call centre based in Hamilton Scotland..the training might have just been for that location but if you point them in this direction you may have a bit more luck....

[renegadeimp]

Hehe New process? Well, i guess the law in 2009 could be new

[charlysays85]

That's brilliant Iain. I'm really pleased for you. I wish someone would send the whole of Natwest's customer sevrices team on a training course.Seven weeks after initial complaint I receive this letter from somebody in Chargebacks and Disputes:Dear *****I refer to your recent correspondence in regards to the loans you required to be cancelled.Your card is a guaranteed method of payment and, as such, it is not possible to stop any charges from being applied to your account.Any investigation made by the Bank is directed through Visa International and is governed by their rules of enquiry and time constraints.Whilst I sympathise with your predicament, I regret that we are unable to offer any assistance on this occasion as we cannot act as an arbitrator or sit in judgement whe there are monies owed to the retailer through a loan repayment plan. Therefore the Bank has no further line of enquiry.May I respectfully suggest that you pursue this matter with the retailer direct in any way you deem fit, in an attempt to reach a satisfactory conclusion. You may also wish to seek advice from the Trading Standards Office or the Citizens Advice Bureau.I trust this will clarify the Banks position.Yours Sincerely.I am LIVID. I cannot even begin to start on which bit of this letter makes me the most angry. Any suggestions on where to go from here please?I did write a letter as suggested, took it into the bank and was told unfortunately letters of complaint must go to the regional complaints manager....duly sent the letter nearly 2 weeks ago...no response. This is RIDICULOUS!!!Thanks very much in advance x

[renegadeimp]

Charly, you MUST take that to the FOS and have them deal with it now.

[Iain May]

Update:

 

Just took a call from the helpful lady at HSBC and she informed me that there was a slim chance that payments could go through and advised that I call them if this was to occur. She seemed genuinely surprised that there was not a formal method of preventing this happening within the card transaction system. I suggested that putting a bar on should mean that the only transactions that are authorised are chip and pin, she agreed but said this was not possible. Sounds like the entire process is a fudge to me!

 

Will let you know how I get on should this occur tomorrow, but as I have reminded her (and the recording of the conversation) I consider this matter now closed since they have a formal declaration on the books. Should a payment go through I will be disputing it as unauthorised and will expect an immediate reimbursement of funds as is my right under law.

 

Iain

Edited June 25, 2012 by Iain May

[charlysays85]

Thansk renegadeimp. Luckily I have already taken it to the FOS and by my calculations, I only have a week left before they take it out of Natwest's hands. The only thing that worries me is that I've heard that apparently the Ombudsman have taken the Banks' on a few occasions...

[renegadeimp]

The more info you have the more likely they will find in your favour. Also remember that you can always appeal against the ombudsmans decision and get a completely different adjudicator to investigate. It's why CAG says, time and time again, EVERYTHING must be in writing, so you can have as full and complete paper trial as possible. That way, no creditor can try and worm out of things.

[charlysays85]

Brilliant, thanks for the advice. I will wait my mandatory few more days and then send off all the paperwork. I'll post updates as and when I get any, and hopfeully this will help others in this situation.

[renegadeimp]

Good luck, and be aware, the FOS could take a long time to investigate your complaint. So dont panic if they take a good few months, or longer if they need it.

[charlysays85]

Thanks again, I will try and be patient!! I really appreciate all the advice and support; makes me feel a bit more sane!

[citizenB]

We are still hearing from caggers that Banks are refusing to cancel CPAs and using all kinds of excuses.

 

This article from February 2012 has some helpful hints and advice. It also highlights the incorrect advice being given not only by banks but the OFT and MSE

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/feb/24/continuous-payments-authority-know-your-rights

 

x

 

And here's the correct information Financial Services Authority "In most cases, regular payments can be cancelled by telling the company taking the payments. However, you have the right to cancel them directly with your bank or card issuer by telling it that you have stopped permission for the payments. Your bank or card issuer must then stop them – it has no right to insist that you agree this first with the company taking the payments." (Taken from the updated January 2012 version of the FSA's leaflet: Bank accounts – know your rights.)

[renegadeimp]

Some banks are also saying that the pdls are not using cpas. Barclays for example is one of these banks but they refuse to say what method the pdls are supposdly using now.

[citizenB]

renegadeimp, the main problem is that people will insist on telephoning their creditors - banks. If a telepone call is made then there should be a follow up in writing either by snail or email

 

Put the bank/creditor on the spot with something along the lines of..

 

Dear Sir or Madam (or Name)

 

In respect of the telephone conversation with your sales rep/Name on DATE.

 

I am writing to confirm my understanding of that conversation.

 

My question/query was ................

 

The response from (WHOEVER) was ...................

 

It is so easy for time and memory to distort recollection, therefore I would like my understanding on record.

 

If however, your rep/NAME recalls the conversation differently, perhaps you could let me know.

 

PRINT NAME.

 

If you were unhappy with the response from the bank/creditor - then you should include your disappointment.

[renegadeimp]

Very true. But weve had reports about this when people go to their bank in peraon with a written request and even when the peraon has a copy of the fsa regulation to hand.

 

Maybe the ceo of barclays resigning today will have an impact on their practices.

[Peterbard]

subscribing

[citizenB]

Very true. But weve had reports about this when people go to their bank in peraon with a written request and even when the peraon has a copy of the fsa regulation to hand.

 

Maybe the ceo of barclays resigning today will have an impact on their practices.

 

 

I would so like to think that it would. However, I doubt it very much!

[citizenB]

Some banks are also saying that the pdls are not using cpas. Barclays for example is one of these banks but they refuse to say what method the pdls are supposdly using now.

 

 

This is rather a strange statement to make.

 

There are only so many ways for a payment to be made.

 

CPA - we now know these can be cancelled - despite what the banks say

DD - these are covered by a guarantee and again if the account holder wants to cancel they can

Standing order - these are under the control of the account holder.

 

So I think anyone being told that payment is being taken in another way - should persist until the banks let them know exactly how !!

[renegadeimp]

I agree there citizenB. However we have had multiple reports from different people stating that barclays have said that the payment methods are NOT CPAs and therefre cannot be stopped. This is despite every other bank saying they ARE cpas.

[Conniff]

I think it's irrelevent whether they are CPAs or not. The person that owns the bank account, the one depositing money into it is the one who has control over it not the bank. The bank is the customers servant and they do as you want with your money so no matter what the payment is for or who set it up, the account owner is ultimately the one that controls it and if he say stop, the bank must stop.

 

Personally I would tell them to stop in writing and if they didn't I wouldn't be asking again, i would make certain no more money was deposited into the bank and let them pay my bill for me if that is their attitude.

 

If I ordered a daily newpaper over the phone to my local newsagent and gave him my debit card number, does that mean he can deliver and draw money from my account for life if he chooses to? no of course is doesn't, but that is what the banks is saying here.

[joesoap]

I agree there citizenB. However we have had multiple reports from different people stating that barclays have said that the payment methods are NOT CPAs and therefre cannot be stopped. This is despite every other bank saying they ARE cpas.

 

I was one and this is the reply I got, make of it what you will;

 

Thank you for your email. A Continuous Payment Authority is an agreement between the customer and the merchant where a payment will be made on a certain date for a service or goods they are receiving. Eg weekly, monthly, annually, etc. payday loan companies are (mainly) short term monthly loans where the full balance owed is collected on a set date. If the company is unable to collect the full amount they will, on some occasions every day, seek authorisation for the payment, and then lower amounts, trying to retreive any funds available to assist towards the repayment of the loan; this is usually detailed in the terms and conditions of the merchant allowing them to do this.These merchants are not subject to cancellation requests as these are not Continuous Authority Payments leaving account; I would respectfully advise you to contact the relevant merchants.

[citizenB]

I was one and this is the reply I got, make of it what you will;

 

Thank you for your email. A Continuous Payment Authority is an agreement between the customer and the merchant where a payment will be made on a certain date for a service or goods they are receiving. Eg weekly, monthly, annually, etc. payday loan companies are (mainly) short term monthly loans where the full balance owed is collected on a set date. If the company is unable to collect the full amount they will, on some occasions every day, seek authorisation for the payment, and then lower amounts, trying to retreive any funds available to assist towards the repayment of the loan; this is usually detailed in the terms and conditions of the merchant allowing them to do this.These merchants are not subject to cancellation requests as these are not Continuous Authority Payments leaving account; I would respectfully advise you to contact the relevant merchants.

 

 

This method of attempting to see what funds are available is also indicative of fraudulent action.

 

I think there is something very sinister in this response. Will try and find more advice for you.

[rebel11]

Hi joe

 

Here's some info:-

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012...nuous-payments

http://paullewismoney.blogspot.co.uk...ts-racket.html

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...c-payments.htm

[citizenB]

http://www.which.co.uk/news/2012/05/60-second-guide-to-recurring-payments-285427/

 

Righto.. well apparently these are also called "Recurring Payments" - BUT .. they are simply CPAs under another name. This is what WHICH has to say about them.

 

Recurring payments - what’s wrong with them?

Recurring payments give the control to the organisation you are paying. Until 2009, only the payee was able to cancel the payment, so even if you cancelled a magazine subscription it would have been up to that company to cancel the regular payment from your card.

While most reputable companies would cancel the payment immediately, there were many that didn't, meaning you could go on paying for a product or service you no longer received.

Another problem is that the recurring payments were often variable, so a company could raise the value or the frequency of payments without you knowing. Setting up a CPA with an online and/or overseas company carried heightened risk. Some firms refused to acknowledge the cancellation requests, which could result in a long struggle to put an end to the payments.

What are the new rules?

Since 2009, consumers have the right to cancel a CPA themselves. This means the credit card provider with whom the CPA was established, would be taken out of the equation, leaving them to resolve any outstanding payments with the company directly.

Financial Services Authority (FSA) guidance is clear. 'In most cases, regular payments can be cancelled by telling the company taking the payments. However, you have the right to cancel them directly with your bank or card issuer by telling it that you have stopped permission for the payments,' it states.

What can you do?

Despite a recent BBC Money Box investigation finding evidence that customers had been wrongly advised by Lloyds TSB and Santander, remember that you now have the power to cancel a CPA yourself.

If you tell your bank that you wish to cancel the payment then they are obliged to make that happen. To be doubly sure, you can contact the creditor, as well as your bank.

If you are unhappy with the advice or service you receive from a provider you can lodge a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

Ok, well it is quite clear - the information being given by the banks and especially Barclayshark is just plain wrong and misleading. If anyone has any problems cancelling - then you should simply take your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman.