Need help with my situation

[Mehim]

Hi, I have been a member for a little while, reading all the stuff regarding credit card debt. I have the same problem with MBNA/Virgin and Cit.

 

Before I found this site, I took up an offer with a Claims Management Company, this was Feb 2009

 

All the stuff I was being sent by the card companies I was passing to the CMC and they were dealing with it.

 

I got a letter from them saying that the CC companies had not sent the required documents therefore the contracts were unenforeable. They said i could stop paying but advised because of the hassle i would get to keep paying for the moment.

 

I then received a letter from a firm of solicitors acting on behalf of the CMC and that they had obtained the opinion of counsel (an advocate) who is of the view that there are reasonable prospects of success in this case. The risk of loss is therefore remote. This was dated August 2009.

 

Further to that I then had a letter from the CMC saying they had received the papers from MBNA/Virgin and their legal team had looked them over and that they were totally unenforceable. Again they said I could stop paying, this time I decided I would take the hassle and stopped paying the 3 cards from that date, October 2009.

 

One call MBNA made referred to my partner`s credit, I didn`t miss him regarding Data Protection. Anyway, the calls came and went then out of the blue the CMC ceased trading.

 

The solicitors acting for them contacted me saying that as the indemnity from the CMC was no longer there, they couldn`t advise me to go to court. This was April 2011.

I`m not too sure what else I should be putting here, at present, I have SAR ed MBNA, and the company they sold the debt too. CITI and the company they sold on too.

 

I also Had Barclaycard CC and when they raised the interest rates I closed those accounts and demanded a copy of the original CC agreements. I got the following in a letter for one of those.

 

"I would like to explain that we are currently unable to provide all the documentation and information required by section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act1974 (the "Act"). Therefore, we accept that we are prevented from enforcing pur agreement with you while this state of affairs continues.

 

I stopped paying that card too

 

 

I realise I`m being long winded here but i need help in where i go next. I have taken further steps which I`ll explain as required.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi welcome to CAG.

Are you receiving any letters about these debts and are

you paying any at all.

[Mehim]

I haven`t paid any that I was told are unenforceable nor the one that Barclycard said was unenforceable.

 

I`ve had a lot of letters, these were all sent to the CMC dealing with this till they went bust. The ones I have had since then I have been muddling along with. I informed the companies that the debts had been sold to that they were in dispute and had been sold unlawfully to them.

 

MBNA.Virgin and Citi both replied to my SAR saying they didn`t have enough information to know who I was. I sent them basic details and CITI have blanked me since then. The DMC they sold to tried telling me that all correspondence must now go to them, I stuck to my stance that I was dealing with CITI and that they could not tell me who I can send a SAR too

 

MBNA/Virgin have since sent me copies of the so called CCA and they are in my opinion application forms, not CCA`s

[victoria_siempre]

Hi Mehim

 

 

Whatever the DMC said is history and the legal landscape re CCA enforceability is very different now to 2009.

 

The Barclaycard letter states clearly that they cannot pursue legal enforcement.

 

It’s now unwise to rely on a purely technical ‘application’ form defence to the MNBAites in court; it helps though in your tactics along the way. There is no magic bullet to avoid a legally enforceable debt and you have to decide your own tactics, dependent upon your own circumstances. You will receive support here.

 

love

 

vic

[Mehim]

Hi Vic,

 

Not too sure what you mean by a technical Application form defence?

 

From what I have read in here, if they do not or can not produce the original signed agreement, that rendered it unenfoceable. But I could be wrong.

 

I have no idea what the CCM company sent or received from the companies apart from what they told me in a letter. Their involvement stopped about March this year.

 

MBNA was taken out in early 90`s and the stuff I got from them clearly states application form across the top. (Virgin 2004 and states Your application form at the top)

 

I SAR`ed both August 2011 and eventually got information back late October. No notice of of assignment. I informed them again that as their was no actual CCA that the accounts were in dispute.

 

The history before this is as follows:-

 

They sold both to Varde who had Experto writing to me from around June 2010, all of which was passed to the CMC.

 

From then I had A Home Owner Notification, then HL Legal Solicitors giving 7 days notice of court action, then another for 14 days to court action. I informed them that the acounts were in dispute with MBNA in April 2011. I informed Experto about the lack of copies of the notice of assignment and received a copy letter on MBNA headed paper undated and the a copy of a letter from them again undated.

 

I had also SAR`ed Experto who had previously informed me that they did not have the original documents.

 

It was then passed to Credit Management Consultants who again gave me 7 days before they might go to court. They were lettered telling them the accounts were in dispute.

 

I today got copies of the same documents that MBNA/Virgin sent me previously.

 

Quite frankly, none of the folks involved seem to talk to each other, they all tell me different stuff.

 

Long winded as I said.

 

Citi had similar, they wrote to the CMC in Jan 2010 repudiating the unenforceable contract part. They then informed me in April 2010 that some accounts including mine was being transferred to CCAM and tried to tell me that they would now be responsible as Data Controller.In June they sent me a termination notice. July Collect Direct appearedLate July HL Legal & Collections Appeared. CITI didn`t know who I was when they got the SAR in August

 

Opus??? appeared telling me I couldn`t SAR CITI and needed to send it to them wanting another £10. Cabot Financial have now appeared??

 

Opus send me information under a SAR which I never sent them included in that are supposed monthly statements from opus from late 2010, none of which I ever received, nor did I ever have a card with OPUS

 

I have a forest of papers now and have probably missed some parts out.

[Mehim]

got the Technical "application" form defence now that I re read it

[victoria_siempre]

Hi Mehim

 

 

Our collective experiences suggest that non-compliance with a valid lawful CCA will be accepted by a County Court Judge. In our view this is perverse, but has yet to be tested in appeal and a judgement that can be quoted as precedence (although Carey is weirdly useful here); it remains a moot point. We don’t test the point because we’re poor beggars and they don’t test it because they’re sh*t scared of a rerun of the PPI fiasco (consider the bigger picture).

 

As to the rest, all is tactics and a poor person can fight harder than a richer one; I invite all my alleged creditors to take me to court; I am blessed by my poverty.

 

x

 

v

[Mehim]

Hi Vic,

 

I have done that a few time too and I am still waiting. The CCM that I was with also told them to do that but it never happened. It is always, we may, might, could.

 

I think there will be a few more trees felled in my case before it is resolved.

 

I`ll be doing a couple of replies tomorrow.

 

Cheers

[victoria_siempre]

Good Mehim

 

We need to keep our people strong in defying the devils.

 

x

 

v

[Mehim]

Some points that I was wondering if anyone can answer for me.

 

1) Does the Paragraph following that is in the SAR template letter still apply.

 

" PLEASE NOTE that unless otherwise stated by yourselves and if the above documents are NOT provided, it will be CONFIRMED that you are unable to provide in any way shape or form any copies of the above requested documents. You are reminded that you have a duty to inform me if you do not have the above documents. This is confirmed in High Court Law - Ezsias v Welsh Ministers - [2007] All ER (D) 65 (Dec) "

 

 

2) When sending a SAR Which would appear to be under the Data Protection Act, can the Credit Card companies reply using the the Consumer Credit Act.

Saying:- This copy agreement does not include the signature box, signature or date of signature as in accordance with Regulation 3(2)(b)(ii) of Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983. We are not required to provide them.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

As far as I'm aware it is still relevant.

There is no obligation to supply copies

of CCA 1974 regulated agreements with

a SAR as this is laid down in the relevant

sections of that act.

[Mehim]

Thanks for the reply Brigadier2jcs

 

MBNA/ Virgin sent copies of the CC applications.

 

Barclaycard wrote admitting that their CCA was unenforceable as they cannot produce an agreement.

 

CITI seem to be as confused as I am. April 2010 they advised me that the account was being transferred to another company.

 

They (CITI) then sent me a default notice in May.

 

A Termination notice in June.

 

Then A Debt Collection company tried to collect end of June on behalf of CITI

 

Same company threatened a personal rep visit in July, again on behalf of CITI.

 

HL Legal wrote on behalf of the DCC re CITI in July.

 

Since then Opus appeared along with Cabot. Opus have even sent me the last week, copies of credit card statements, showing me with an account with them. statements from CITI until November 2010 then from Opus in Jan. City stopped sending me statements from May 2010.

 

I used to wonder why I was confused with all this

 

Opus only appeared in 2011

 

I got a letter from Opus replying to me asking in Oct 2011 who they were. In it they tell me that they bought the account in a batch from CITI March 2010 and added it to their system in Nov 2010. Yet they produced copy statements from CITI and them selves that I never received.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Mehim
corrections

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

This trend now of DCAs producing statements

purporting to show that individuals have taken

credit card facilities directly with them is confusing

many people and is somthing that needs to be

challenged with thre regulators I think.

[Mehim]

Well I have stuck to my guns and repeatedly told them I do not, never have had and will not have an account with them until CITI (whom Cabot or Opus have tried to tell me in a letter that I cannot send a SAR too) answer my SAR to them and send the signed copy of an agreement. Which they dont have or I`d have had it nearly 2 years ago

 

Should I now write asking for proof of postage for each statement from CITI and OPUS since city stopped sending them to me in 2010?

Edited December 18, 2011 by Mehim
Corrections

[Mehim]

Reading back, should I make a complaint to the regulator regarding all these statements that have appeared from CITI and Opus that I have never seen before?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hold everything until you get

the result from the SAR

[Mehim]

Hello again Brigadier, many thanks for the response.

 

CITI have blanked my re sent SAR request , I lettered them again beginning of November quoting Ezsias v Welsh Ministers, still nothing from them.

 

In my SAR I am asking for

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

 

They as in Opus and Cabot, fall back on Consumer Credit Regulations 1983

 

Opus sent me a true copy of the agreement with no signature box.(Mid November)

 

Cabot say they purchased the account in may 2011 and tell me that they are having difficulty in obtaining the information from the original lender but to be assured that they are continuing to request the information as a matter of urgency. (Late November). (and Early December)

 

What makes this even stranger is that they sent me an unsigned copy agreement headed as Opus in September.

 

I have a feeling CITI are trying to wash their hands of the matter.

 

Thanks again for the help and advise

Edited December 19, 2011 by Mehim
Correction

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

This is where the problem is Mehim strictly speaking a SAR

does not oblige them to supply the agreement which is covered

specific sections of CCA 1974.

So my suggestion is to amend and resend a SAR to Citi requiring

all documents relating to you and the specific account, together

with a CCA request for the agreement, with the rider that if the

agreement is not available, lost.misfiled or non existant that must

state in writing as to the status of the agreement.

[Mehim]

HI Brigadier2jcs, The following was what was originally sent to CITI,

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Data Controller

Citi Cards

CitiFinancial Europe plc

Collections Department

PO Box 49920

London

SE5 7ZF

 

 

August

 

Data Protection Act 1998

 

Subject access request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

 

2. Where there has been any event in the account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to the account.

 

3. True copies of any notice of assignment and default notices or enforcement notice that Citi Cards sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

4. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted.

 

5. A copy off all telephone conversations from your company to me and vice versa.

 

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

 

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

 

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

 

9. A list of third party agencies to which you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

 

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

11. Termination notices

 

 

PLEASE NOTE that unless otherwise stated by yourselves and if the above documents are NOT provided, it will be CONFIRMED that you are unable to provide in any way shape or form any copies of the above requested documents. You are reminded that you have a duty to inform me if you do not have the above documents. This is confirmed in High Court Law - Ezsias v Welsh Ministers - [2007] All ER (D) 65 (Dec)

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply all the above documents in line with the Information Commissioners Technical Guidance update (Dated August 2007)

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Enc. Postal Order Value £10.00

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

They replied saying they didn`t know who I was, couldn`t identify the account, asking for more info and to resend the payment. I gave name and DoB

 

I then got a letter from Opus thanking me for my SAR, and advising me to send another request along with another £10. Included was a copy of a letter from Opus dated prior to my SAR to CITI, informing me I could not send to CITI, if I did my money would be returned to me. Which it hasn`t been as it happens.

 

I told them to go play with themselves, that I would send a SAR to any company that held info on me.

 

Please let me know if I should still do as you said in the previous reply.

 

Thank you

Edited December 19, 2011 by Mehim
correction

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Odd behaviour indeed, the whole matter

needs now to be made subject of a complaint

to the ICO and the OFT.

Given the time of yeat it would be best I think

to start thsi again in the New Year.

Brig.

[Mehim]

Many thank Brigadier2jcs

 

I have been given the run around by the three companies, I just noticed that Cabot have said they bought the account in May yet one of their letters wishes me all the best in my dispute with CITI.

 

Thanks again

[Mehim]

Hello again folks, hope everyone managed to enjoy the new year and forget their problems for a few days.

 

Back to my situation, on reading loads of posts in the forum, one thing I didn`t mention regarding MBNA/Virgin cards, Experto have offered me 30/35% reductions over the previous year.

 

From what I read, can I assume that they are at it regarding these two cards. My feeling is that they wouldn`t offer anything if they were sure of their claims.

 

CITI/Opus/Cabot have been silent since Cabot sent a letter beginning of December saying:-

 

Your request for information under the Consumer Credit Act

 

Unfortunately Cabot have not been able to provide you with the requested information within the relevant time period.

 

What Happens Next

 

We shall continue to request the information from the original lender to assist you with your request. In the meantime, we would like to inform you that your account shall remain on hold with the Customer Assurance Department until such time we can comply with your request.

 

CITI have still blanked my SAR from August 2011

 

Any help on my next step would be appreciated, many thanks

[Mehim]

Hello again, I have been exploring the site and wonder if I should have started this thread in the MBNA section. If so would an Admin move it for me please, thank you

[Mehim]

Hello folks,

 

I managed to get some answers for my SAR regarding both mbna accounts.

 

Reading through the information, I see that the default notices were issued in June giving me 18 days from the date on it to pay the arrears on both, but they sold one account to another company 7 days and the other 8 days before the date given to pay up.

 

That cant be right? or is it?

[Mehim]

Hello,

 

I have another query regarding MBNA.

 

what does the following actually mean?

 

"Scottish add - unable to sub litigate csi - edu further calls and letters"

 

this is contained in the incompleted SAR that I got back from MBNA

 

Thanks