Orange - taken one year overpayment by Direct Debit. What to do?

[probe]

Dear Friends,

I need advice as to what to do to get back my money from Orange phones.

 

I had a 12 mths Contract with Orange after which I phoned them in Feb 2010 to cancel my contract.

We took another new contract with them for my daughter at the same address. After this I forgot about it and things carried on as normal.

One year later, in Feb 2011, I realised that Orange was still deducting monthly payments by Direct Debit for my old Contract which we cancelled in Feb 2010. So I wrote to them and asked them for a full refund of the 12 mths overpayments as the phone has been cancelled and not used since.

 

They have agreed that we called in Feb 2010 to cancel the contract and also have not used the phone number since then. They have refunded only 3 mths money and will not refund the rest.

They say that they had sent us a PAC no. and as we did not use it for another connection, the contract was continued and money continued to be taken out by direct debit. It is our fault that we did not use the PAC no.

 

We were unaware of this and did not receive any PAC no. My fault was that I should have cancelled the Direct Debit then, but I was told to do so after the final bill is settled and after that I just forgot.

 

Please can someone advise me how can I get my remaining money back from Orange?

Is going to 'Small claims court' an option? Or any other? If i take legal action who is the person from Orange to be implicated?

 

Many Thanks.

 

Probe:-(

31.7.11

[locutus]

Before small claims you need to exhaust Orange's complaints procedure (that way if you do go to court, you will be able to say you've tried as hard as you can to resolve this with Orange beforehand.)

 

So familiarize yourself with this here. Email their customer services and tell them your requirements. Something along the lines of "I require all money taken from my bank account since February 2010 to be refunded, or issue me with a DEADLOCK letter so I can escalate the complaint."

 

Once armed with the deadlock letter, work out how much they owe you and take them to the small claims court OR escalate the complaint to CISAS. Read more about that here. (My choice would be court as I personally have more faith in the court process, however you can still take this to court even if you go through CISAS and even if they found Orange were in the right. The benefit of CISAS is it costs you nothing, it is funded by the mobile industry)

[BankFodder]

sorry,but I am slightly at variance with the advice given above.

 

Orange procedures are not procedures which you are legally obliged to follow. It seems to me that you have followed Orange procedures already and it hasn't worked for you.

There is no obligation to show the court that you have exhausted Orange procedures. There is only need to show the court that you have taken some reasonable measures to bring the matter to the attention and to get your money back. This means a couple of letters with either no reply or no reasonable reply.

If you attribute some special type of importance to Orange procedures then it only encourages Orange. I'm afraid that the time comes we need to break through their procedures, take control of the situation and impose your own procedure.

Orange need to understand that they had their chance and now things have gone out of their control into yours.

 

have you got in writing from them that they agree that you did give notice for February 2010? Or do I get a sniff that this has all been done on the telephone without recording the call?

If you have got something in writing already, then given the effort that you have spent on it so far, I would just send them a clear seven days leading for action and then put the claim in. You will be amazed how they suddenly start listening to and how quickly they sort it out – including your claim fee plus the 8% interest that you add to the figure.

 

The other thing you could do is simply write your bank and invoke the direct debit guarantee. Your bag won't like that. Banks hate honouring the direct debit guarantee and you will have to push them to do it. And they will you you with scepticism and suspicion that you're trying to pull a fast one somewhere. Don't forget that you are only a customer.

If you haven't got anything in writing from Orange, then I would write them a letter outlining everything that has happened, referring to the fact that they have agreed that the contract was stopped in 2010 and pointing out that they have already made your partial refund. In the same letter, it seven days before you bring a County Court action.

 

I'm afraid that big companies such as Orange are not used to being challenged. They are used to leading their customers run by the nose, imposing their policies and imposing procedures. The reason why customers had such a difficult time with companies like Orange is that they tend to accept and they get sucked into those procedures – which is exactly where companies like Orange want their customers to be.

 

Orange is a French company. they are hated in France. No one has a good word to say about them. But they dominate the mobile phone market, they are substantially government own or indirectly government-owned and there is scarcely any competition for them in France. The consumer culture in France is absolutely poisonous and rotten to the core. And now Orange are trying to introduce the same kind of thing in UK. It's up to you whether you want to be dominated by French attitudes or by British attitudes.

[dx100uk]

yep dd guarantee route

if orange did not send you a monthly dd bill saying they were going to take it.

 

phone your bank first thing monday.

 

they cannot refuse.

 

dx

[2Grumpy]

As well as the DD guarantee, these are unauthorised withdrawals. Banks are obliged to refund, as well as refunding any interest or charges directly attributed to them (so if they had taken £200 & you were £150 od, that would be attributable to them, but could only be charged for 50od if your statement showed 250 od).

 

That's in the FSA banking regulations

 

Although the banks cannot refuse to refund, they might try to delay and /or avoid doing so

Edited July 31, 2011 by 2Grumpy

[watchinginvestigation2011]

executive.office@orange.co.uk

[locutus]

I think (AND this is my opinion only!) it's best that you get Orange to agree to cancel this debt as they report adverse information on credit files, which can be a nightmare to deal with. Personally (as I said above) I'd be emailing my demands, and then proceeding with court action if they don't agree.

 

I you prefer to take a harder line than requesting this from their customer services, write to their registered office and head the letter "letter before action", give them 7 days to rectify the situation or you'll take them to court, but be sure that you will follow up and keep to your timescales and take them to court. With BankFodder and DX following this thread, I'm sure they'll be able to give you more advice on court action if orange let the situation get that far, so keep us up to date with how you progress.

[probe]

Thanks very much.

I do have all in writing.

I'll knock on their door once again and keep you all posted.

Probe

[probe]

Thanks very much.

I do have all in writing.

I'll knock on their door once again and keep you all posted.

Probe

[probe]

I have spoken to my Bank and they have agreed to invoke thr DD guarantee and get back the money. I am waiting for it.

 

If they do give back the money, do I still go ahead with the CISAS complaint and the small claims court?

The bank did say that if it is an issue later they may take back the money.

 

So what next please?

 

Probe

[dx100uk]

court no ofcourse!

 

dx

[pin1onu]

Orange is a French company. they are hated in France. No one has a good word to say about them. But they dominate the mobile phone market, they are substantially government own or indirectly government-owned and there is scarcely any competition for them in France. The consumer culture in France is absolutely poisonous and rotten to the core. And now Orange are trying to introduce the same kind of thing in UK. It's up to you whether you want to be dominated by French attitudes or by British attitudes.

Sorry BF you're a little out of date with this. As of July last year Orange UK and T-mobile UK were merged to form a joint venture company known as Everything Everywhere which now operate the Orange and T-mo brands. The JV company is 50% owned by France Telecom and 50% owned by Deutsche Telekom.

 

Customer experience and Service is very high on the agenda for the new JV. I'm not suggesting that attitudes will change overnight but neither is it as bad you are suggesting.

[probe]

Friends,

My bank has refunded back the 12 tmh extra overpayment taken by Orange by DD. Now what?

 

Do I still go ahead with complaining to CISAS?

Or should I keep quiet and watch?

 

What if the Bank, after their investigations, decides to take back the money after sometime?

Will it be too late for me then to take action against Orange?

 

I believe that I have no claim to make in the courts now, am I right?

 

Please continue your wise and experienced advices.

 

Thanks.

 

Probe

[dx100uk]

ofcourse no court

 

howeve as its now been proved they [orange] were in the wrong

it would do no harnm to let whatever authority you wish to know what they have been up to

 

and your bank cannot reverse a dd gurantee refund!

as they'd be as much in the wrong there then!

 

dx

[locutus]

Keep a close eye on your credit file! IF anything untoward appears there from Orange, post here for more advice.

[martin2006]

You could write a smug letter to orange telling them that you got your full refund:whoo:without their help.

[probe]

Thanks to you all.

I wonder who pays this refunded money - Orange or my Bank?

By the way how do I check my Credit rating / File, to see if Orange have done any mischief? I have never done it before?

 

I think I will write to CISAS just to record things.

Probe

[probe]

Thanks again.

How do I check my credit file? I have not done it before.

 

Probe

[probe]

Sorry to say that my personal experience was bad with the Orange Correspondence Team in Darlington.

They are rude and arrogant in their letters.

They think customers are silly cheap people and can be dealt with casually and rudely.

Maybe some English people in their office have developed French attitudes.

I have their letters to prove this.

 

Probe

[locutus]

Orange report to Experian and Equifax I believe, so personally, I'd do the 30 day trial of "credit expert" but remember to cancel within 30 days. OR you can get a statutory report for £2 per report.

 

Experian - here

Equifax - here

[Human Writes]

If you've reclaimed the money without Orange's agreement they will in all likelihood consider that you now owe them 12 months worth of charges, I would expect imminent collections activitity from them, as you've reclaimed 12 months worth of money they will probably mark your credit file with six months plus worth of late payments and a default the next time they are due to update your file. I doubt very much that this is over, even if you have got your money back.