Landlord has asked us to leave..

[deathbycrayons]

On December 2010 we moved into this house. It's privately rented, we did not pay a deposit. We signed the assured shorthold tenancy agreement on 10/12/2010 and moved in on 12/12/2010.

 

On June 6th this year the landlord phoned up and told us that his girlfriend had been evicted and that we would no longer be able to stay here as she was going to be moving in with her kids. We were devastated by this.

 

Then a week later we had a habdwritten letter put through the door explaining this, giving us 2 months notice - there was no section 51 notice or date on the letter.

 

We still haven't managed to find anywhere suitable, I am disabled and so is my son, my husband is our full time carer and I also have a step daughter who lives with us.

 

We're on housing benefit and income support, and every home we've found that's suitable, we've not got because many landlords don't want tennants on housing benefit.

 

The landlord of this property phoned up last week and asked when we would be moving, and if his girlfriend could store her stuff in our garge and spare room. We obviously said no and asked him not to phone us again.

 

My question is, what are our rights? If we still haven't found somewhere by 6th August, we will be homeless, we can't just leave.. surely he can't force us to leave?

[deathbycrayons]

Oh I also forgot to add, that last year he asked his previous tennants to leave, for the same reason. His pregnant girlfriend had been kicked out by her husband and then as the tennants of this house were about to move out, he came back and told them "it's ok, she's gone back to her husband, you can stay".. to which they replied "up yours" and moved out anyway. A month latyer we moved in.

[deathbycrayons]

Just bumping this up sorry if it's too early to do so, I'm anxious..

[Steve__M]

How long was the fixed term of your original contract?

What date do you pay rent and how often (monthly, weekly, 4-weekly)?

Have you paid a deposit, and is it protected by one of the three tenancy deposit protection schemes?

 

The following ASSUMES that you had a 6 month contract with rent payable on 12th of month. If the assumption is wrong, my suggestions are wrong.

 

I think that a legal notice should refer to Section 21, and should expire on or after your fixed term ends. The notice would be invalid if the deposit were not protected at the time of issue. These points do not matter for now because of the following point:

 

The phone call is irrelevant. The notice should be written. You say it was given to you a week after June 6th and the notice is for August 6th.

 

Therefore, the dates indicate that the written notice did not give you 2 months' notice, so you could legitimately ignore it. Landlord may realise his mistake on August 7th and then issue proper notice which would give you till October 11th - or if he doesn't realise his mistake he may apply to evict you which should be unsuccessful, and add further delays.

 

If you do not move out on October 11th, landlord can apply for accelerated possession to evict you.

 

Obviously, if you choose to follow this line things are likely to get difficult between you and the landlord.

[deathbycrayons]

Thank you so much. The rent goes out on 5th of each month, as it's per calender month. We haven't paid a deposit at all.

[Aequitas]

We need to know:

 

1. If you were granted a fixed term and if so when it ends/ended

 

2. Exactly what the notice said; please quote it word for word.

 

In the meantime , whatever the answers to the above, please remember that your landlord cannot get you out without a court order.

[deathbycrayons]

Thank you. What do mean by 'granted a fixed term'? Our tenancy agreement is an assured shorthold, 6 months ans then month to month. I will type out the note now. It's quite hard to read and there was no date on it..

[deathbycrayons]

"termination of shorthold tenancy agreement, ****our address****

Dear K**** and ****,

Following our conversation last Monday 6/6/11, it is with much regret that owing to circumstances beyond our control, we are unable to continue renting out ****house name*** and hereby give two months notice in accordance with the shorthold tenancy agreement. We hope you will be able to find alternative accomodation without too much trouble. If we can be of any assistance regarding references, please do not hesitate to contact us. Yours sincerely.....

[Steve__M]

For now, it seems the notice cannot be valid because it gives less than two months notice.

[deathbycrayons]

OK that's great news, so if he goes to the court, they'll just tell him that he doesn't have a valid case? What about if we stop paying rent (we've spent quite a lot of money on estate agents fees applying for houses that we didn't get, the credit checks are expensive), also we'll need to find a deposit from somewhere.

[Steve__M]

OK that's great news, so if he goes to the court, they'll just tell him that he doesn't have a valid case? What about if we stop paying rent (we've spent quite a lot of money on estate agents fees applying for houses that we didn't get, the credit checks are expensive), also we'll need to find a deposit from somewhere.

 

While the landlord may have gone about the process incorrectly, he hasn't done anything he would not have been entitled to do. There are still many landlords who discuss things informally with their tenants.

 

But landlords *are* entitled to give notice on properties. You don't have grounds for withholding the rent.

 

I'd be more concerned about the agents ripping you off for fees for houses you don't get.

[deathbycrayons]

OK, so in the event of non-payment of rent, or breach of any other term of the tenancy, the landlord can apply for possession under section 8 of the 1988 Act, am I right?

[Ed999]

My comments only apply if the premises are entirely within England and Wales, and you were granted a shorthold tenancy (under which you - and your spouse/partner/children, if any - have exclusive use of a seperate dwelling, which is not shared with another tenant nor with the landlord), and you were over 18 years of age when the tenancy was granted, and the rent is less than £2,083 per month.

 

 

We signed the assured shorthold tenancy agreement on 10/12/2010 and moved in on 12/12/2010.

 

Our tenancy agreement is an assured shorthold, 6 months ans then month to month.

 

 

From whiat you say, I should explain that you had what's called a fixed term tenancy for six months, granted on 12 December 2010, which ended on 11th June; and thereafter you now have a periodic tenancy. A monthly periodic tenancy, as you pay rent monthly.

 

To end your tenancy under section 21, the landlord has to do several things -

 

a. He has to give you at least 2 months notice, and it must be written notice; but he can lawfully give you longer notice if he chooses. If he gave you notice after 5th June, it wasn't valid because it is expressed to run out on 6th August, i.e. less than 2 months later.

 

The rent goes out on 5th of each month

 

b. Any notice he does give you must also expire on the last day of a rent period. It can't end on just any day of the month.

 

If the rent is paid on the 5th of each month, it probably is not a valid notice unless it expires on the 4th of the month. The other option would appear to be the 11th, because the tenancy started on the 12th of the month.

 

The 6th of the month doesn't appear to be the end of a rent period, in the circumstances you've described.

 

c. He has to obtain a court order. This takes about a month. He can't apply to the court until after the date in his section 21 notice, and the minimum time it will then take is a month.

 

It will take much longer if he sues on an invalid notice, because he may not discover that the notice was invalid until half way through the court proceedings. And he will then have to begin again from the start, by giving a fresh section 21 notice.

 

 

If there are rent arrears, he can give you notice under section 8, and can start the court proceedings 2 weeks later.

 

There has to be a court hearing in a section 8 eviction, so the proceedings might drag on for several months. In the usual course of things, a section 21 eviction is often quicker, precisely because there is no court hearing in a section 21 eviction.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Ed999

[deathbycrayons]

Thank you. I really appreciate your help. Thanks.

[Steve__M]

Just a note to Ed. My understanding is that notice issued during the fixed term (to end the tenancy at or after the end of the fixed term) doesn't have to expire at the end of a rental period.

 

This would have been relevant if you'd been given valid written notice on 5th June as 5th June was inside your fixed period. But you weren't, so it isn't relevant!

[deathbycrayons]

I feel I should add, when we moved in we paid 3 months worth rent (£1500) in advance. The payment was on 10/12/2010 in cash as he insisted and the next months rent was paid by standing order in February. I have withheld this month's rent.

[Ed999]

Just a note to Ed. My understanding is that notice issued during the fixed term (to end the tenancy at or after the end of the fixed term) doesn't have to expire at the end of a rental period.

 

This would have been relevant if you'd been given valid written notice on 5th June as 5th June was inside your fixed period. But you weren't, so it isn't relevant!

 

 

Yes, Steve. However, I have simplified my explanation to avoid confusing the tenant, because any notice the landlord now gives to rectify his error must expire on a rent day - and in addition it must also be a minimum of 2 months notice.

 

The landlord gave less than 2 months notice originally, as a verbal notice isn't valid. Hence his original written notice was too short to be valid.

 

We don't know for certain what the rent day properly is, nor do we know for sure the start date of the tenancy, because the tenant hasn't told us. Those points are not critical, because of the landlord's failure to give a full 2 months notice. Otherwise I would have explained the point you had in mind - but in the circumstances I hope we can spare the tenant a mess of additional legal complications.

[deathbycrayons]

As I did say, the date that the tenancy commenced was 12th December 2010, and the day the rent goes out is 5th of each month. On 10th December 92 days before we moved in) we signed the tenancy agreement and paid, in cash, 3 months rent in advance. Then, the next lot of rent went out by standing order on 5th February.

[Aequitas]

Any notice he does give you must also expire on the last day of a rent period.

 

Make that:

 

Any notice he does give you must also expire on the last day of a tenancy period

 

Whilst a tenancy period and a rent period may coincide, they are not the same thing. The first tenancy period starts on the day after the fixed term ended and the ensuing tenancy periods are calculated accordingly. It does not matter when rent is payable..

[Ed999]

Make that:

 

Any notice he does give you must also expire on the last day of a tenancy period

 

Whilst a tenancy period and a rent period may coincide, they are not the same thing. The first tenancy period starts on the day after the fixed term ended and the ensuing tenancy periods are calculated accordingly. It does not matter when rent is payable..

 

 

Use of the term "tenancy period" is misleading in this context.

 

In order for a poster to properly understand concepts that may be unfamiliar to him, which he may never have come across before, it's necessary to address the legal issues in terms which make sense to him.

 

In a periodic tenancy, the period of the tenancy is derived from the rent period. It's therefore less likely to confuse or mislead the tenant to use the term 'rent period', particularly as he has some chance of being familiar with that expression. And that expression carries a more obvious meaning, being an obvious derivative of 'rental period'.

 

 

Secondly, a trap into which it is easy to fall involves this statutory tenancy, arising after a fixed-term tenancy.

 

Where the tenancy began on, say, the 15th of the month but the rent is payable on the 1st, the notice must expire on the last day of the month (the day before the rent day), not the 14th:

 

• http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/gazette-in-practice/benchmarks/accelerated-amp150-or-not

 

• http://www.legalcentre.co.uk/tenancy-agreements/arts/notices-to-terminate-a-cautionary-tale/

 

This is an example of how the rent period differs from the tenancy period, and how the distinction is crucial.

[deathbycrayons]

The landlord just phoned and spoke to my husband, demanding we get out of the house and pay the rent owing, he was very aggressive and very unwilling to reason

[deathbycrayons]

He says he's going to get an accellerated eviction notice if we're not out by 14th August.

[raydetinu]

what about the amount paid up front £1500/ 3months rent paid paid rent again in Feb; so effectively one month held in hand by LL, which could be construed as a deposit/bond? what is in the contract about this amount held, can it be used to pay the last months rent? If not mentioned should it not be treated as a deposit and therefore protected? If so and it is not then swction 21 notice will not be valid!

[deathbycrayons]

OK, just been reading. He can serve a section 8 notice only if we have missed 2 consecutive months rent am I correct? So he can't get an accellerated eviction notice on 14th August surely?

[deathbycrayons]

He's saying that he's going to get an accellerated eviction notice if we're not out by 14th August - he'll have a job as he hasn't even served us a valid, dated written notice. He also said he was going to start proceedings today but I think he realised that he wouldn't stand a chance.