Bill of sale defective so is credit agreement secured on it

[postggj]

me just posting this question for reference and has no reference to myself

 

 

If a credit agreement regulated by the consumer credit act is secured on a bill of sale, and the bill of sale is void, the credit agreement may also void by virtue of the act, although the law on this is VERY unclear.

 

do we have any CASE / STATUTE LAW to back this up

 

IS THE CREDIT AGREEMENT SECURED BY BILL OF SALE VOID IF THE BILL OF SALE IS FLAWED

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi, post,

This type of agreement is regulated by an ACT or Parliament made in 1882

Which states : The Bill of Sale MUST conform to the prescribed information

laid down in the ACT.

The Bill must be registered.

If either requirement is not met the security is NOT enforceable, although the

underlying debt MAY be.

[raydetinu]

This may help:

http://www.parliament.uk/briefingpapers/commons/lib/research/briefings/snha-05631.pdf

or this:

http://www.creditlaw.co.uk/_doc/OFT%20commentary%20on%20Bills%20of%20Sale.pdf

[postggj]

many thanks people

 

i have my answer

 

any repo will be unlawful with a duff default notice and the debtor will be able to pursue for brach of contract

even if a compliant default notice is issued later

 

s.92 and redress under s.132 of the cca 1974

[postggj]

Quick question

 

can a fixed sum loan agreement be secured by a bill of sale being that the debtor will own the goods outright under a fixed sum loan agreement

 

some case or statute law would be nice

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi post, The info in post 2 is all I can find.

Case law is a bit thin I think.

[postggj]

Thanks for taking a look in

 

i need something concrete to nail this question

[postggj]

A poser this question

 

most credit agreements are regulated under the cca 1974

 

now if the agreement that is secured by a bill of sale is a fixed sum loan agreement and the creditor has started court action and stated under a regulated credit agreement,

 

not fixed sum loan,

 

can the defendant apply to have the claim thrown out

 

as a credit agreement is something totally different like a hp or conditional sale agreement

[raydetinu]

As far as I can see, A bill of sale can be an arrangement in its own for anything, goods, money etc. and can also be the surity that is part of the regulated CCA agreement.where the terms, interest etc can be stated.

Now as in section 105, 106 of act, if BOS surity document not correct then the agreement is unenforceble?

I think!

need a legal eagle on this, quite complex and act wording needs a tranlator.

[postggj]

I agree

 

i just do not want to end up with a bloody nose on this

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Just asked a colleague the frame work is if the bill of sale is defective so is the agreement.I'll look further this evening.

 

 

Brig.

[postggj]

Many thanks brigadier

 

i have always been under the impression that if the bos is faulty, then the agreement it secures must be defective but

 

i need cast iron evidence to quote

 

many thanks and await your reply with anticipation

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Just reread the bits of the act again bloody confusing, if the BOS is not in compliance with the act, or not registered or both

the attached agreement is unenforceable but the underlying debt may not be, could be the same meaning

as under SB that the debt still exists but court action cannot be taken.

[postggj]

As stated

 

need a translator

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Sorry I can't help further am away from reference facilities for a couple of days but will check

some older web sites.

[postggj]

i appreciate your time in this

 

it would be nice to nail this bos and credit agreement scenario once and for all

 

catch up later

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi, have more on this will post up later ,comlpicated, and states the law on contracts like this is VERY UNCLEAR.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi post, Got a bit more as said confusing is an understatement!!

This from a Government website :

The agreement is void if any of these items are omitted from The Bill of Sale.

Failure to register the bill in accordance with The Act of 1882.

There must be a date on the bill and

the names and addresses of of both parties,and A Statement of the ''Consideration'' and

An acknowledge of the receipt of the advance and

 

An assignment by way of security of particular goods, capable of description. and

A statement of the sum secured and

The rate of interest and a statement by way of payments that must be made, and

A clause limiting the grounds for seizure of the goods to one of the following,

1. A default of the repayments or a covenant of the bill

2.Bankruptsy or seizure of the goods for rent,rates or taxes,

3.If the granter fraudulently removes the goods or arranges for the removal of same,

4.If an execution has been levied against the goods.

The bill must also contain the following:

Agreement terms for the maintenance of the security and

A schedule of the goods/chattels containing a description of said items and,

A signature by the granter (borrower) and

A statement of the form of the 1882 Act and

Attestation by a witness not party to the agreement and

Registration of the Bill and,

The consideration is the amount the borrower receives for the bill, NOT the sum secured by the bill

which would contain interest and costs.#

 

If the agreement is a regulated agreement it would have to be the amount advanced before the addition of interest and/or costs.

If it is a regulated agreement under CCA secured by a bill of sale and the bill is void/defective my means of any of the conditons,

the CCA agreement may also be void by virtue of the ACT.

The law on this is very uncertain and unclear. (Archaic)

 

Specialist advice professional advice should always be sought on disputes with this type of agreement, as they

are a major cause of unfair relationship cases.

 

That what I have so far post, looks as is every must be dotted and every T crossed for these agreements to be valid.

 

 

Brig.

[postggj]

MANY THANKS BRIGADIER

 

THATS WHAT I LIKE

 

COLD HARD FACTS

 

QUOTE

 

The agreement is void if any of these items are omitted from The Bill of Sale.

 

CAN YOU POST A LINK TO THAT STATEMENT PLEASE

 

REP WELL DESERVED AND SCALES TIPPED

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I've got problems with the internet,at the moment, but if you google the question verbatim

 

''When is an agreement secured by a bill of sale void or unenforceable,''

 

It will take you to the info including unfair contracts.

Sorry about the link can't get things moving and problems opening mail from in box, just a Ludite when it comes to IT

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Thanks for the scales hope this helps.

Brig

[rosyb]

Yes you have a case.

They have enforced the security without issuing a valid default, and are guilty of a breach of contract.

The quality of the bill of sale however is irrelevant to the Consumer credit act.

If the car taken as guarantee for the loan had been defective, say it had no engine, would that have made its effectiveness as a guarantee void? No it would not and neither would the ineffectiveness of the bill of sale.

It just makes it ineffective as a bill of sale. They have used a turkey as to guaruntee a loan there is no law against that.

Rosy

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Post, Take a look at the info the CCA does impact on certain parts of such agreements.

[sequenci]

Just seen this thread. An interesting one. From my understanding, and what I was trained, is that a defective BOS - or one that wasn't registered in time - simply renders the security void. If the credit agreement aspect is OK then it just becomes an unsecured agreement.

 

As far as the 'credit agreement' query, I always thought that any agreement that gave you 'credit' could be referred to as such. So potentially a loan or credit card could be a credit agreement of sorts?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Sequenci,

 

I read the 1825 act numerous times on this, it is a nightmare,

and IMHO not designed for this type of transaction,

Bill of sale has to comply with the format laid down in the act and contain all

the details I have posted up.

The agreement that secures that the bill secures MAY be come unenforceable, but

the underlying debt still exists.

 

 

The guidance on this states the legislation is archaic and complex, and one party to such an agreement

should seek expert advice.