BT Legal Action

[Ivanbb]

Ok; I've had enough. How do I sue BT?

Fibre optics were installed and this was supposed to cure the problems I've been having for the past eight years. It's been installed since November last year. First installed and tested @ the full 40 mb a few months later it drops to less than 20. sometimes less than 2 mb.

Today I can hear noise on the line the same as I did eight years ago. This is definatly a BT issue. All my hardware is disconnected.

The latest fault was reported last Friday. After many calls a BT engineer was arranged for Wednesday. (BT didn't show) then Thursday (BT didn't show) Now I've received a message telling me it will be repaired by Sunday evening, and still don't know if a BT engineer is expected to turn up.

I need advice on the best way to take legal action.

Claims are tricky , because BT contract clauses are tight. But I'm 25 meters from the cab. How close do I have to be to get the advertised service? Is this not an advertising infringement?Surely you can't sell a service that drops to less than half advertised shortly after installed?Two engineers were waiting around for five hours when BT didn't show. BT make a very big deal of stating "If it's your fault then you pay for the engineers time." What about my time? and the cost of the other engineers time?

[locutus]

Have you lodged an official complaint yet? check here. It is a common story that BT engineers let people down, keep them waiting for days, and when all is said and done the repair is carried out at the cabinet / exchange and the customer not even informed. Are you sure the required work hasn't been carried out?

[postggj]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?278262-Compensation-from-bt

 

have a nose

[Ivanbb]

Thanks for the links. quite interesting but not quite where I want to go.

This problem has a history.. Compensation of a few hundred pounds is peanuts. Technical support engineers have cost that much to have on standby when BT didn't turn up! (This is necessary because BT keep saying the line is within spec N.F.F.)

I needs a permenant fix so that "Do Not Touch" is painted in red on the local BT frame when this is all resolved. The name of someone who's successfully sued and received significant compensation perhaps.

 

This is the area I'm looking for help.

[Slobrob]

firstly, by NFF you mean no fault found?

You say your 25m from the cabinet but how far are you actually from the exchange as the crow flies? being 25m from the cabinet doesnt necessarily mean you will get a great speed

Is the noise itself crackling, hissing, buzzing?

Is the noise appearing on phonecalls too? is it too noisy to actually make calls?

is your line running underground or overhead cable?

 

 

I think your best bet is to go through the necessary channels for a start, that means the complaints channels also. If you have already done this then this is fine. I assuming that you have done all the necessary checks such as plugging into the test socket (if you have one) and checking noise on the line.

 

I think your best bet now is to start collating evidence of your speeds on a daily basis monitoring at various times of the day whether it drops or increases and by how much. When I was working on the fibre trial initially, they were initially providing fibre services to customers who were able to support at least a minimum of 15mb DL speeds on the line and believe this is still the same requirements? You note that your speeds are dropping as low as 2mb on occasions - how are you checking this information out? speed test?

 

I don't quite get the two engineers hanging around waiting for BT? aren't those the engineers BT sent themselves to you? Usually when a line test is done, there are certain codes that come back as to where the test fails and where the fault might occur. For example, one fault code may mean that the fault lies within the house and therefore an engineer may be required to visit and charges may apply if fault found in your house. Other codes mean that the fault may lie elsewhere such as the ties at the exchange may need replacing or something loose at the cabinet. All in all the advisor should be able to give you an indication as to what the fault test is showing and tell you whether an engineer is actually required to your premises or not - which can be useful especially when your having to take a day off work.

 

To me, since FTTC has been installed, it doubt the problem is coming from the cabinet to the exchange although it is possible. My instincts tell me that the fault could possibly lie between your house and the cabinet and could be several reasons. First and foremost is the age of the cable in which it has deteriorated over the years and therefore affecting the internet and causing noise. other reasons could be damage to the line itself especially in overhead cables.

 

I think the only possible solution to resolve this would be to have a new line fitted from the house to the cabinet - I have seen this happen before when I have been dealing with customers and also I have had this done myself when I had my internet with BT so I can talk from personal experience. BT will only action this sort of thing if everything else has been tried and tested and this is where the collation of evidence comes in. You will ideally need to produce evidence to BT so that they are backed into a corner and have no other possible options.

 

one program that allows you to record noise on the line is this http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm - I do know it works with the homehubs but im not so sure it will work with the new fibre hub but worth a shot. there are other programs available but I cannot name them to hand.

 

In terms of suing and compensation - I don't have anything off hand right now but I would be expecting some compensation as well as a permanent fix as mentioned above with the issues you have had over the last 8 years.

[locutus]

Slobrob FTTC or Fiber to the cabinet means that there is a light speed connection between the cabinet and the exchange. I'm thinking this is a business and Ivanbb is having to pay some techies to sort any networking issues etc.

 

Best of luck Ivanbb getting this sorted. Problems on that scale are hard to sort. I would say the email address in postggj's thread is the top man of BT and his office should be able to render some assistance. The 1st step is to let BT know what you require as a solution. Talk of court is a little premature if they've not refused your requests, so fire off an email and see what they come back with.

[Slobrob]

Locutus - I know what FTTC is and how it works i dealt with issues like this on a daily basis. The problem Ivanbb is facing is the last leg of the journey i.e. from the cabinet to the house and this is what i suspect is causing the bottleneck on his speed due to the quality of the line itself and the noise on the line therefore he is experiencing the fluctuation in speeds. hIf he is close to the exchange then the speeds of 40mb will push through to the cabinet and then from the cabinet to the house the speed will drop dramatically as the las tleg of the journey cannot support it. As I said, in my opinion the only solution would be to fit a new line from the house to cabinet, unless there is something else that is causing the issue which, if it has been going on for 8 years can't see there being any. But having the problems for the last 8 years seems to me that the engineers are only temporarily solving the problem before going back to the way it was before.

 

Of course Ivanbb will need to go through the right channels to get this sorted, and I'm sure if he explained that he has had issues over the last 8 years with no permanent solution and that the only way of resolving things would be a new line then I think that could be something the chairman's office would consider. But yes, I agree court action is a little premature unless BT are not filling the their proper duties and that is to provider a decent level of service - having noise on the line intermittently over the last 8 years is not the level of service expected.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Slobrob

[Ivanbb]

hi guys I think without publishing pages of records Slobrob pretty much provided a synopsis in his last thread. Your diagnosis, which has been suspected for years, could only be proven after fibre was installed, Until then aluminium and copper cable could have been the cause (Yes aluminium!!) Now It's almost certain to be the short distance between the premisis and cab. BT keep saying the problem could be with my equipment. Engineers on site were necessary to counter this. I've had nine modems, a bag full of filters, cables and two ISP's that say there's no fault on my side so it's time this was ruled out permenantly. It doesn't matter if it's 56K dial up, two meg adsl or 40 meg fibre, service always starts at max speed then the line is re-graded some months later to between 30% and 50% less than maximum. Now that fibre is up to 25 m away there's no reason for this. Exchange distance is not a factor in this case. I should be close enough to get full 21CN service. (Realistic speed 17 mb) Each time there's a fault I go through "channels." collect data, disconnect equipment check the master socket, etc etc and it's "down time" for my business. Being reasonable isn't working. However this is a hard legal case to win. Most likely BT will downgrade the line again and this becomes a contract despute over the minimum 12 mb (used to be 15 mb) guarenteed fibre speed. Fibre was sold as a cure to the long standing problem. I'm 25 m from the cab remember. I don't think it reasonable BT use the minimim speed loophole. This problem was predicted before the installation of fibre and I was assured installing fibre would cure the long standing problem. This needs to be either a highly public case or a high compensation successful court case to ensure the service from BT is improved for everyone. Help as to who has won such a case would be much appriciated.

[Slobrob]

It is hard to find such cases and most of these would normally be settled out of court and therefore prevents the case coming before the courts. I am not sure if you have tried already but I have a couple of contact details you might want to try.

 

Beverly Matheson - Complaints department

beverley.matheson@bt.com

 

Warren Buckley - Director of retail customer services (not sure if you have business broadband or not)

warren.buckley@bt.com

 

You may want to try Warren Buckley as he does tend to respond to his emails.