Cabot claimform - old Citi Card 'debt' **SETTLED BY TOMLIN**

[gettingsorted]

Hi Lamb - thanks for your support - don;t say you can't help as you already have been - I'm really impressed with the defence earlier today. I posted up on your thread as I have been following it .....post by post - I kinda knew that I was heading the same way; everyone on your thread have been such a help to you I was hoping that they would have a look and make a few comments

its taken me three days to get it all in order.

Did you manage to open the other pdf's they seem to open ok for me but of course I uploaded from this computer. I'll post them up later again.

Good Luck

GS

[lamb909]

Yes GS, I can open the other PDF's. I honestly think your thread needs to be in the Legal Issues forum, I would imagine you would get many more replies/help on there. I know its in the Citi card part but now you have received court papers, perhaps it would be better over there. I've noticed there is a quick turnover of posts on there but thats only my opinion.

 

It's really hard, isn't it but you seem to be doing ok, maybe just could do with some legal bods to have a look??

 

These are just my thoughts as I don't know a lot but here goes, somebody point out if I wrong please

 

 

1. Why would I have signed a further CCA with them in 2007 when I had already informed them of my difficulties? I don't think you would have

2. Are the CCA’s correct in what they are showing. What about the interest changes?

3. Why are all the statements showing the payment due date as earlier than the statement date? Why did I stop receiving statements?

4. What about the Customer Service Notes being purged. There is no info about my account there – I have tried twice for this info.

5. I do not have a DN on file but there is one on one of my credit records for Citi although I just checked yesterday on Equifax but it doesn’t seem to be on there. I think you need to request one, have you sent a CPR request?

6. Can I use the fact that I have attempted on several occasions to contact them with no response to resolve the CCA situation as part of my defence if I defend. I would imagine so, in my case they refused to speak to me further (by letter) so I have included it in my defense, so can't see why not, they are being unreasonable

7. There are charges of around 500 (mostly 25 each time) and there is PPI of around 500 neither of these include interest – can I try to reclaim. Yes, yes, yes

8. What about offering to settle?

9. I object to Citi trying to claim interest on my account from after I tried to sort out the situation and they were not responding to me.

10. Why did Citi increase my interest rate immediately after I notified them of being in financial difficulty. I think a lot of CC companies changed their rates within the last few years and I think they are able to do, I think by addmitting you were having difficulties you were seen as more of a risk if that makes sense, but morally I think its wrong and it would help your defense especially as it happened JUST after you informed them of your situation

11. Do I return the response pack to them ? I think not! I don't think you should at all

 

Again GS, these are just my thoughts, somebody may be able to help more and advise better.

I will keep popping in, just to give moral support if nothing else.

 

Stay strong

[lamb909]

Regarding offering to settle, I don't think they would now court papers have been issued and it also depends on the amount owed and what you can afford. If they think they will win, I don't think they will settle for a 'much lesser' amount.

 

But if you dispute it and are willing to risk getting a CCJ, then I would go ahead with defending, of course thats just what I am doing so it's difficult to say to someone else "Yes, defend".

 

I think I have little chance of winning but am going to try, I have little to lose and if they win, they will get a £1 monthly payment but thats just me, I already have a CCJ, didn't want another but just thought what the hell, I'll give it a go.

 

These are just my opinions GS, so please don't do anything without proper legal advice on these forums and obviously there are much more experienced and knowledgable people who may advise you further and advise if they think you have a case or not.

[gettingsorted]

Thanks Lamb - you're thoughts are definitely helping me get my head straight. I will post a link to here on the legal issues forum and ask them to move it over.

 

Have sent a CPR request and got a long letter saying they had complied ...its in the pdf you can't open so I will have a look at that later.

 

Good luck to you - you know I'm watching and learning.....

GS

[gettingsorted]

Have had a thread running over several months on the Citi Forum but it has now come to Court and I received the papers last week - now don't know what to do and have loads of stuff going round in my head. Someone else in the same position has suggested that I post over here and ask those in charge to move the thread over here.

Here's the link - there is a summary in post 104. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?278373-Citi-Cards-and-Cabot/page6

Thank you

[the_shadow]

Ok first thing... dont send the response back to them, it should go to the court to ensure no "delays" happen with it and by this they obtain a judgement by default.

 

S.

[gettingsorted]

Thanks shadow - sort of knew that - intend to do it online i think I have worked out the dates correctly ;- can I say that I intend to defend and then pull out if I feel I need be.........

Lamb - on a different computer now and am still able top open the letters pdf. But will repost it tomorrow,

Thank you

GS

[the_shadow]

Right here we go.... do you wish to defend or admit the debt?

 

You have 14 days from receipt of the claim plus 5 days for service unless you acknowledge online which gives you a further 14 days... so in total 33 days from the date on the claim.

 

The recons, Carey vs HSBC is the authority for using reconstructions in court, this was a case about informational rather than enforcement but the claimants and judges are tending to agree to its use, you'll have to put forward some proof positive that theres an error with the reconstructions to disprove them. I.E. a statement shows a different APR% compared to the original agreement (reconned)

 

Also the reconstructions MUST to be correct have the original name and address AT THE TIME you took out the agreement.

 

Citi dont normally send out defaults, I might have asked before but did they ever issue a default notice? Without a default notice they should not be able to claim any sums not due already.

 

S.

[the_shadow]

Yes, you can defend right up to the steps of the court if you so wish... costs dont tend to be incurred until they have to do anything and the next "milestone" is the AQ stage.

 

S.

[gettingsorted]

hello again - at the moment i think I want to defend; my partner agrees. I tried my level best at a very bad time to get citi to communicate with me and make a reasonable arrangement with them but they just didn't communicate with me - even stopped sending statements out; I honestly thought they had gone away - more fool me

 

the date on the papers was the 27 May - so i think I have till the 16th to file an acknowledgement and then till the 30th to file a defence - do you agree.

 

Have just checked and citi are showing a default on my credit file........ for the same date as the second agreement.

 

As regards the interest rate - the interest rates on the statements change to 25% from 0% in 2004; and then to 23% in then to 22% (both in 2005) then to 30% in mid 2006 (this immediately after I told them I was having difficulties). The two RECON CCA’s have two interest rates – one in 2004 of 25% and one in late 2007 of 30%.

Thanks

GS

[payingonlyencouragesthem]

You havn't blacked out the figures properly on the PDF's you uploaded - Cabot read these threads and have been known to produce them in court. Change them or get a mod to remove them if you can't.

 

From what I can see I think you should be thinking along the lines of a well worded Tomlin Order But others may have better ideas.

[gettingsorted]

which ones please ? I will remove them now

GS

[the_shadow]

Dates sound good to me although you can easily confirm with the court, theyre used to this type of query all the time.

 

I'll move this to the legal forum also.

 

Cant read some of the Cabot letters contained in the PDF specifically the responses to your s78 request.

 

S.

[gettingsorted]

OK - thank you .....have removed the pdf as someone has pointed out that they can still see some figures. I will alter and repost them tomorrow.

[payingonlyencouragesthem]

The Northamton BCC claim pack. Check with the magnifying function on Acrobat before reposting

[the_shadow]

OK - thank you .....have removed the pdf as someone has pointed out that they can still see some figures. I will alter and repost them tomorrow.

 

Cool, better off scanning and editing in some art program with black squares and then converting to PDF... see the article about privacy in my signature

 

S.

[gettingsorted]

Thank you

Have removed them and will repost tomorrow. Original post is now being moved to the legal issues forum.

GS

[caro]

When did you actually last acknowledge the debt?

[gettingsorted]

Hi Caro -Last acknowledged the debt in late 2006 ny way of a nominal payment and numerous phone calls.

 

Lamb - my Cabot letters say that the card was Associates Classic Visa.

[lamb909]

Good you see you over in Legal GS, well, not good as obviously wish you weren't here in these circumstances but glad you will get some legal help. Does that make any sense lol. I'll keep popping in just to give you moral support if nothing else

 

Lamb

[lamb909]

Yes, you can defend right up to the steps of the court if you so wish... costs dont tend to be incurred until they have to do anything and the next "milestone" is the AQ stage.

 

S.

 

 

Just a quickie Shadow, what an "aq" stage?

[gettingsorted]

Hi Lamb & Shadow - thanks ! Lamb - You beat me to it .....I was just going to post to ask shadow what aq was ?

 

GS

[gettingsorted]

Finally - the pdf files - hope I haven't left anything on them !

Edited June 7, 2011 by gettingsorted

[caro]

AQ is Allocation Questionnaire. Both sides receive one from the court and when completed they're sent back for a judge to decide which track to allocate the claim to. Usually if the claim is under £5k it's small claim, so neither side can claim costs from the other. Fast track and multi track are larger claims, and the loser at the end of the hearing usually has to pay the other sides costs, including legal fees for solicitors etc.

[Shelley181146]

Yes GS, I can open the other PDF's. I honestly think your thread needs to be in the Legal Issues forum, I would imagine you would get many more replies/help on there. I know its in the Citi card part but now you have received court papers, perhaps it would be better over there. I've noticed there is a quick turnover of posts on there but thats only my opinion.

 

It's really hard, isn't it but you seem to be doing ok, maybe just could do with some legal bods to have a look??

 

These are just my thoughts as I don't know a lot but here goes, somebody point out if I wrong please

 

 

1. Why would I have signed a further CCA with them in 2007 when I had already informed them of my difficulties? I don't think you would have

2. Are the CCA’s correct in what they are showing. What about the interest changes?

3. Why are all the statements showing the payment due date as earlier than the statement date? Why did I stop receiving statements?

4. What about the Customer Service Notes being purged. There is no info about my account there – I have tried twice for this info.

5. I do not have a DN on file but there is one on one of my credit records for Citi although I just checked yesterday on Equifax but it doesn’t seem to be on there. I think you need to request one, have you sent a CPR request?

6. Can I use the fact that I have attempted on several occasions to contact them with no response to resolve the CCA situation as part of my defence if I defend. I would imagine so, in my case they refused to speak to me further (by letter) so I have included it in my defense, so can't see why not, they are being unreasonable

7. There are charges of around 500 (mostly 25 each time) and there is PPI of around 500 neither of these include interest – can I try to reclaim. Yes, yes, yes

8. What about offering to settle?

9. I object to Citi trying to claim interest on my account from after I tried to sort out the situation and they were not responding to me.

10. Why did Citi increase my interest rate immediately after I notified them of being in financial difficulty. I think a lot of CC companies changed their rates within the last few years and I think they are able to do, I think by addmitting you were having difficulties you were seen as more of a risk if that makes sense, but morally I think its wrong and it would help your defense especially as it happened JUST after you informed them of your situation

11. Do I return the response pack to them ? I think not! I don't think you should at all

 

Again GS, these are just my thoughts, somebody may be able to help more and advise better.

I will keep popping in, just to give moral support if nothing else.

 

Stay strong

 

Hi GS,

 

I am in a similar position and have been reading your posts along the way.

 

Firstly, having sent a SAR letter, if you have received any valuable information, have you calculated how much in PPI or unfair charges you could claim? Apologies, just re-read your previous post. Have you put these figures into an excel spreadsheet to calculate the interest due, using the interest rates that were charged originally? PLEASE, do so. It may well add up to clear your account or you could offer F&F settlement for much less.

 

In answer to your question (1) above - the second agreement would have been sent out with your normal monthly statements when they changed their T&C's. This would not have required your signature. It is my thought that if you didn't agree with the new varied T&C's then it was upto you to settle your account and close it. Maybe other Cagger's could clarify?

 

I have received identical documents ( two copies of reconstructed agreements) recently in response to my CCA request via DCA. The DCA say "if your claim for PPI is successful you may wish to settle our account"? How nice of them. I have chosen to send my claim in for my refund of PPI/unfair charges before I do anything else with the DCA.

 

Personally, depending on your circumstances and time allowing: Use the spreadsheet from the library on here to calculate your PPI and unfair charges, plus interest at the rate charged to you, plus 8% stat interest and get the letter sent off, recorded delivery of course. That may give you some time, and it may give you an interim ' gesture of goodwill' which may help you in current circumstances?

 

With that said, you may feel happier getting the court paperwork sorted first.

 

I think you are being guided well by other Cagger's and should I obtain anything useful I will of course post it for you.

 

Just opened your pdf files and 2004 agreement is for Citicard accounts and 2007 agreement is for Citi and BMI baby accounts. Was your original agreement for a Citicard or an Associates card? I notice that the agreements both name Citicard as the creditor whereas the court documents name it as Associates Visa. Maybe another Cagger could clarify if this is sufficient justification that invalid agreements have been reconstructed?

 

Take care, keep smiling.

Shelley

Edited June 7, 2011 by Shelley181146