PCN for a car that broke down‏

[eloma]

My car brokedown on Saturday night (16/01/2011). I called the AA.. They came within an hour.. The agent couldnt fix the car and diagnosed it as a broken timer belt with possibly bent valves. The car was dead and immobile.

 

The car was recovered by tow truck and left outside the garage.. The car was set down by the AA agent in whatever space was available near the garage. He parked it with the two near-side wheels on the footpath. It was dark and raining heavily. The garage was closed on Sunday.. On Monday morning (18/01/2011), I met the garage guys and handed over the keys and they then took a day or so (due to bad weather, incessant rain and lack of staff) to move the car and start work on it..

They had the car for the rest of the week and I picked up the car on the Saturday (22/01/2011). When I picked the car there was a PCN stuck on the windshield.

Here I must clarify there was a sign on the pavement, allowing parking on one side of the sign and my car was parked on the other side. This sign at the location indicates, using an arrow, the direction and point from which you can park with wheels on the footway. So in that sense it was a default.. but as I have indicated, the circumstances were not normal. I was not in charge of the vehicle when the alleged violation happened.. The car was dead and wouldn't start.. There was no place to park near the garage.

I appealed against the PCN and also had attached the garage bills. Soon after my appeal, I got a letter from Redbridge Parking asking for proof in the form of a letter from the AA. I called the AA and got a letter which I sent to the council.

Now I have got a letter from them rejecting my appeal. Redbridge Parking say that they will not cancel the PCN because the AA moved the vehicle to the location where it received the PCN therefore the vehicle should have been parked correctly.

I had two options.. Pay the reduced amount £50 within 14 days.. I did not use this option as I was trying to speak with councillors to make them see some sense. I now have received a Notice to Owner (I am Registered Keeper), at the full penalty of £100.00. I have to now make a further representation to the Council’s Appeal Services or pay the full fees of £100. Should my representation not be accepted then I will have the option to make a further representation to the Parking and Traffic Appeals Services (PATAS).

My question was:

Should I make a fresh appeal and then go to PATAS. Is my case strong enough. If I go to PATAS and lose, do I have to pay the higher penalty of £100 - does the penalty increase further - do I also have to pay damages (court fees, etc)

Is the process of second appeal and independent adjudication, time consuming.. I work full time

The car was left so that it doesnt obstruct anyone or anything.. if there was no parking place to set my car down in the vicinity of the garage, what are Ihe AA meant to do.. If they leave the car near my home on Lowbrook Road, how am I going to get it to the garage on the next working day..in light of the exceptional circumstance, is it right to uphold the PCN. Rules could be interpreted in the context of the circumstances especially when the vehicle was not obstructing, disturbing or inconveniencing anyone. I did not park the car and go shopping.. There was limited choices.. This treatment seemed a bit harsh and punitive..

[Jamberson]

Should I make a fresh appeal and then go to PATAS. Is my case strong enough.

 

Yes, I think you should. I think you will win if you fight it. The Council asked you to corroborate your story, which you did - and they rejected your appeal. Why bother asking for supporting documents, if they did not intend to cancel when they received them? I think they will cancel it if you fight on.

 

If not, go to PATAS. Much of your post above is pertinent and you can tell the adjudicator all this background, if it comes to that.

 

If I go to PATAS and lose, do I have to pay the higher penalty of £100 - does the penalty increase further - do I also have to pay damages (court fees, etc)

 

You would have to pay the full £100, but there will be no fees or damages or anything of the sort. Just your time and travel costs, which you will have to meet.

[Desperate Daniella]

I think you have a very good case too. They have had the documents proving the car had broken down and was parked by the AA man. Obviously this is just about getting your money.

 

Did you manage to get your local councillor involved? They should back you up here too.

 

DD

[green_and_mean]

Why don't you sue the AA it was them that left the car parked on the footway after all.

[Desperate Daniella]

Or you could just ask them to pay the fine?

[Dragons Dennis]

The council are correct. The car did not break down where it received the PCN and thus the breakdown does not come into the equasion. However, you also did not park the car there either and thus you should not be responsible and indeed are not. You have to pay the fine as the RK of the car, which you have done so the bill will not increase. Now you need to seek redress from the person or organsiation that did create this bill by leaving you car in an illegal place.

 

So, you need to now write to the chief executive of the AA and enclosing a copy of the PCN and your receipt having paid, demand full reimbursement within 14 days or you will seek reimbursemnent through the county court. Mark your letter 'Letter before action' and send by recorded delivery.

[Tony P]

In my Appeals to PATAS (100% success rate) I now add that "I further ask the Adjudicator to award me for my reasonable costs and inconvenience as this Appeal is exactly the same as my Representation that was rejected by the LA. Thereby the LA was clearly being vexatious in not properly considering the circumstances within my Representation".

 

 

I got costs once and the same LA has twice since caved in saying they will not contest the Appeal (containing these words) and were cancelling the PCNs. These were shortly prior to each of the Appeal Hearings - thereby denying me the opportunity of asking for those costs.

Maybe I am wrong and there were other circumstances, but worth adding as I am sure the payment of costs hurts them emotionally if not financially.

[patdavies]

The council are correct. The car did not break down where it received the PCN and thus the breakdown does not come into the equasion. However, you also did not park the car there either and thus you should not be responsible and indeed are not. You have to pay the fine as the RK of the car, which you have done so the bill will not increase. Now you need to seek redress from the person or organsiation that did create this bill by leaving you car in an illegal place.

 

So, you need to now write to the chief executive of the AA and enclosing a copy of the PCN and your receipt having paid, demand full reimbursement within 14 days or you will seek reimbursemnent through the county court. Mark your letter 'Letter before action' and send by recorded delivery.

 

Not so. the valid ground of appeal is that the vehicle was left in that position without the consent of the owner.

 

It was left there by an agent of the AA, unsupervised by you.

[Dragons Dennis]

I agree Pat, except RK would be a better choice of words.

 

However, the issue of the PCN was correct as the car was put there illegally, not broken down in that location. The AA or their agent would unltimately be resposnible for that and whilst it could be argued for the RK, it will still end up with the PCN being paid by AA or their agent. The OP has already done I believe the correct thing by stopping any further expense, for which the AA should reimburse them.

[eloma]

Thanks for your encouraging response. I turned to two councillors and the head of Redbridge council (Keith Prince) and they were totally apathetic. One Cllr asked me details and then has done nothing.

 

Totally disillusioned by the councils attitude..

 

 

I think you have a very good case too. They have had the documents proving the car had broken down and was parked by the AA man. Obviously this is just about getting your money.

 

Did you manage to get your local councillor involved? They should back you up here too.

 

DD

[eloma]

Dear Green & Mean

 

I was in the AA car.. There was no other parking space to leave the car and the driver felt we might obstruct the road (the road is a small by road)

 

Why don't you sue the AA it was them that left the car parked on the footway after all.

[eloma]

Thanks Daniella.. In this case they havent been too helpful.. The best advice they have given is that I should pay before it gets worse.

 

I think you have a very good case too. They have had the documents proving the car had broken down and was parked by the AA man. Obviously this is just about getting your money.

 

Did you manage to get your local councillor involved? They should back you up here too.

 

DD

[eloma]

Dear Dragons Dennis,

 

Unfortunately in this case the OP (me) has not paid the discounted penalty.. as I was told it might be an admission of guilt... EEKS.

 

I agree Pat, except RK would be a better choice of words.

 

However, the issue of the PCN was correct as the car was put there illegally, not broken down in that location. The AA or their agent would unltimately be resposnible for that and whilst it could be argued for the RK, it will still end up with the PCN being paid by AA or their agent. The OP has already done I believe the correct thing by stopping any further expense, for which the AA should reimburse them.

[Dragons Dennis]

My misundersatdning. However, I also didn't realise that you were present when your broken down car was placed where it got the ticket. Although you didn't physically put the car there, it was put there with your knoweldege and consent, so that changes things. From what you have now said, this will be enforecable against you unless you can show that the roadmarkings or signage are incorrect.