#Abbey/Santander : Given a loan i didnt sign for and dont want!

[danclarkio]

This is fairly complicated and I will do my best to explain it, i have tried money expert and havent really got anywhere....

On the 25/2 I applied to top uo my existing loan to £15000 (£6500 left on it until nov 2012), was approved but apr was too high so said i didnt want it and was told to ignore paperwork. I did and was sent a letter3 days later saying the funds were going to be put into my bank (8500 after settling my exisitng 6500) I phoned them and explained i didnt want it and hadnt signed for it and was informed the money wouldnt be released without a signature.

Two days later 8500 was put into my current account! Then received a letter saying my existing loan had been settled!!!!

 

Fast forward about 30 phonecalls and me trying to explain that i dont want this loan etc i was getting nowhere so raised complaint with financial ombudsman, ihave been speaking with them every couple of days and they cannot seem to make head nor tail of what to do. During this i would have made two payments of £335 onto my existing loan which as the loan has been settled i havent done under advice from hsbc that a dd sent to closed/settled loan would just bounce back.

 

Ive told Santander complaints i will send a cheque for the 8500 when i can receive a letter in writing as to what my settlement is for my existing loan, I dont think i should be expected to pay the 6500 in full after this farce and i would have made a further two payments by now, my agreement with them finishes next nov and i dont think i should have to extend that because of their screw up.

 

I never wanted this loan, never signed for it, never wanted my existing loan settled-this has all stemmed from me phoning to ask if i could top it up to 15000.

Santander back on the 1st March sent me a letter admitting it was all their error and that they would take the money back by dd on the 7th march and offered me a paltry £25 cheque for the 'inconvenience', they never took the money back and it took me over a month to get this through to them.

THey are currently dealing with my 'complaint' but i keep telling them its an ongoing issue as i still have their money!!!!

 

Previously i was told to just put in in a savings account and wait for them to chase me but in all honesty i just want it sorted so i need to have nothing to do with them. When i made that phone call back in feb i had a 3 week old baby, he is now 12wks and i dont need this stress or hours of phonecalls to try and sort it, at times ive been in tears!

 

Where do i stand legally with my existing loan that has now been settled? can they reinstate it?

They gave me 8500 cash and settled my old loan so where do i stand with giving them the 8500 back and the outstanding 6500 for the 'new loan'?

I have sought solicitor advice who says i have a great case but a case for what?? I have been into two different branches, faxed a complaint letter over with copies of around 15-20 various letters i have received all saying completely different things and am getting nowhere. Im seriously at the end of my tether.

 

I have a loan for what i needed from HSBC who were fantastic about it and couldnt believe what Santander have done but 6500 of that HSBC loan was to pay off the existing Santander loan.

 

What can i do? WHat can i reasonabley expect compensation wise for all of this and how can i settle it all once and for all?

The woman in the complaints dept is trying but needs the loan depts cooperation which they arent doing... Can they legally reinstate my existing loan now its closed? I was only given 8500 so can only give that back to them, its not my problem they settled my old loan....

 

Sorry for the horrendously long post! Thankyou if you read this far!

[BankFodder]

If you have a letter from Santander admitting their error, then you, you have a 100% solid case.

 

The question is - how to go about making the complain, and what to require by way of compensation.

 

I understand that you had a well maintained loan with HSBC but which has now been paid off by Santander as part of their error.

 

I don't think that there is going to be any problem about this. You don't need to have the HSBC loan reinstated. That would be very difficult.

A better way would be for Santander to give you a loan on exactly the same terms and which terminates as your original HSBC termination date.

 

In addition to this, there is the question of compensation and you would need to force them to take this element seriously. £25 is absurd and you are right to reject it out of hand.

 

This has been going on for 2 months and is likely to continue. There is sure to be a row about the remedy because Santander won't want to give you a short term loan to match the remainder of the HSBC loan. they will tell you that it is not possible in the way they do things.

 

This will be complete rubbush, of course. They will also refuse to offer you a decent compensation. I'm thinking of £500 - or even writing off the two months unpaid loan installment.

 

The problem with these people is that they are stupid and slothful when it comes to getting it right and looking after your interests but they suddenly become amazingly energetic when it comes to trying to save a few quid and doing you down.

 

You have decided to go to the FOS. I can't think why. They are pretty well usefless for this kind of thing. They won't order Santander to give you the replacement loan. They will make some silly recommendation for some token compensation and they will take a long time about it.

 

What worries me is whetyher Santander now have you down with a loan upon which you are defaulting. Believe it or not, that could be the next stage in this catastrophic story.

 

I think that you now have to take control of the situation and go at this aggressively.

 

That means - County Court.

 

I think that you should lay out the entire story and exactly what you require in a firm assertive letter. Tell Santander that they have 7 days to comply completely in writing or else you will be going to the county court.

 

Don't make this threat if you are bluffing. Be prepared to carry out your threat and do so immediatly the 7 days have expired.

 

Santander will not give you any reasonable response to your letter but as soon as the court papaers arrive they will spring into action.

 

County Court claims are cheap and easy and we will guide you. You certainly don't neeed a solicitor who will just be tkaing your money.

 

If you brought a county court claim, then I would be looking for a ruling that the entire loanwas unenforceable because it had been imposed upon you by a dominant party in bad faith.

 

I think that the prospect of Santander losing all of the money will focus them very quickly.

 

In the meantime, I owuld remove the money from any account related to Santander and store it in a separate account elsewhere. Don't spend it because you may welol have to give it back.

 

I would suggest that you start repaying Santander the HSBC installments so that everyone can see that you are acting in good faith. If Santander, in their stupidity, refuse to accept the payments - which they may well do then store those payments away as well so that you are not spending more than you have - until the matter is resolved.

 

I'll follow this thread. Let us know if you want to take this proposed action. But remember, there is no popint in hanging around here.

 

Until you issue the court papers, Santander will think that they can walk all over you and impose any kind of solution they want on you and contrary to your own best interests.

 

Santander really shouldn't be in banking. They are incompetent.

[danclarkio]

Firstly i would like to thank you for your reply-this has been more helpful than any other information i have been given since this whole debacle started!

 

There is something i should have probably have explained better. My original existing loan was already with Santander (originally Alliance & Leicester before they were bought out) which is why i originally contacted them as the existing loan had 6500 to settle on a 12.9 apr. I asked to top it up to 15000 but immediately refused it when they offered me an apr of 13.9 and decided i only needed 13000.

 

As i thought i just simply had to ignore the paperwork like i was told i applied for 13000 with my bank-hsbc and got it after showing evidence of Santanders screw up (as on paper it looked like i had a 15000 with Santander and was then applying for a further 13000 with hsbc!). I have begun making the paymentson this loan.

 

Santander paid off my existing loan with them and put the remainder of the 15000 (8551) into my hsbc current account. Thankfully i dont have an account with them.

 

I have now transferred the 6500 (from the hsbc loan that i intended to pay my original santander loan off with) and the 8500 from Santander into my savings.

 

Upon solicitor advice on tuesday i faxed a letter detailing how i unhappy i was but didnt list every single thing that has happened. Should i now do this again but detail every single thing?

 

On thursday- again i phoned them- Santander said they would reinstate my old loan but i would be 2 months in arrears!! Needless to say i was fuming about this! They also said they havent seen my letter!

 

Personally i feel a resolution to this would be to put me back into the same situation had they not spectacularly messed up which would mean writing off the two payments i would have made and compensating me for the hours of phonecalls and stress and time this has taken. When i made that ill fated phone call my baby was 3 weeks old, he is now 12weeks and i should be enjoying him and not stressing about this daily.

 

I would like to take your advice and apply to county court, could you advise me on how to start this?

 

Thankyou again.

[BankFodder]

I'm out at the moment and this is too complicated to do on a phone.

I'll come back later or tomorrow.

 

From my phone

[BankFodder]

OK, I understand that you had a loan with ST. There was 6500 and you wanted to top up to 15000 - an increase of about 8500. You rejected their quote because the interest rate was excessive and you went to HSBC instead where you took out a 13000 loan.

 

ST told youi to do nothing and their loan to you would not be made. You took them at their word, did nothing and then found that they had made the new loan, settled the balance on the existing loan so that you now have a loand for 15K with ST and a loan with HSBC for 13k

What you want is your old loan ST reinstated and the 15K loan cancelled.

 

This shouldn't be difficult except that Santander are not listening to you and are being incompetent.Firstly, let me say that whenever a bank says to you - to do nothing, you should at least confirm that in writing for your own protection.

 

I understand that ST have sent you a letter admitting their error. This is remarkable because normally any bank would rather murder their own grandmother than admit fault for anything.

I would like to see this letter please.

 

I think that you are mking some basic mistakes.

 

You have not made the last two months payments. You acknowledge the outstanding balance on the old loan and so you should proceed to service it as if nothing has happened. If I were you I would make these payments now. If you have spent the money and can't afford it, then you are starting to run into trouble.

 

You have to be squeaky clean. A judge will not be impressed if he feels that you have seized this opportunity to avoid payments.

 

Now that I understand the position more clearly, the second thing I would do is to return the £8,500 excess to Santander immediately. You are saying that you don't want the money and that they have made an error. You must do everything you can to sho that you have not tried to take advantage of their error.

 

Pay it back to them immediatley.

 

Now you need to force Santander to sort things out.

 

The only way that you can do this is by court action. Nothing else will force them to look at the situation and to correct it sensibly.

 

You should sue them for breach of contract and include a sensible figure to compensate you for the stress, inconvenience and the time that you have taken i trying to get them to conduct your account correctly.

 

I suggest that you calculate the time you have spent and charge 9.25 per hour for it. this is a normal county court rate.

Calculate what you have spent in phone calls and any other expenses.

Then write out a statement detailing your stress and inconvenience. The problems with the baby, how this situation has made it difficult for you physically and mentally and a very difficult time in your life and the life of the baby etc.

 

Make sure that it looks sensible and not money grabbing.

Make sure that the itemisation of your time spent looks reasonable and is not just a money grab.

 

Sue for the breach of contract. Claim your actual losses and then also ask for damages for stress and inconvenience not exceeding £XXX in the discretion of the court.

 

Put a sensible upper figure - probably no more than £500 and maybe less.

 

Then file the claim.

 

You will need to use an N1 form from the court service website and you will need to file it over the counter at your local court.

 

The case will be heard at your local court.

Let us know what happens every step of the way. Don't be put off by their threats and nastiness.

 

This is a good learning exercise for you and you will feel empowered by the experience

[danclarkio]

Thankyou for this information.

 

How can i show you a copy of the letter they sent me admitting the error? I dont have access to a scanner at home..could possibley photgraph it on iphone and email it across..Sorry im not very good with technology!

 

I havent made the last two payments as i havent been able to as they settled the old loan so it doesnt exist anymore. There has been no agreement for the 15000 loan, no request for payment and no attempt for them to take any money and i have had no letters regarding a missed payment relating to this second loan. Santander are aware that i havent made payments and verbally the woman dealing with my complaint has agreed that she doesnt think i should have to make them (i appreciate that verbal agreement means absolutely nothing!).

 

However i did about a month ago receive a letter saying i had missed a payment on my original loan after being told it had been settled by the 15000 loan (seriously, you couldnt make this up to be any worse could you?!) when i phoned them about this it turns out the 6500 had not been settled as i had been told it had and according to them i also had a 15000 loan with them so at this point i had a 6500 loan outstanding and a new 15000!!!! They subsequently immediately closed down the original loan after yet another error and god knows how many phonecalls and i then received in writing my closing statement. Ive told the complaints team i want a copy of my credit report to prove this hasnt damaged my credit rating as im not taking their word for it that they have wiped it. That error itself would be enough to warrant a complaint!

 

The woman i have been dealing with in complaints is due to phone me tuesday and i have told her that if im not happy with what is offered to me that i wont be dealing with her again. I dont know if that was the right thing to say but im sick to death of the pointless phonecalls where no resolution is offered.

I will need to speak to her though regarding sending a cheque for the 8550.

 

Originally you said about sending a full letter detailing everything that has happened. Do you think i should still do this or move immediately to commencing county court proceedings?

 

Thankyou for your advice.

[danclarkio]

I have 6500 from the hsbc loan sat in my savings account waiting to pay off my original Santander loan so when i do finally get a settlement figure I can finally have nothing to do with them! I am already now making payments on my hsbc loan so I dont have any concerns about the actual payments, as much as it is tempting to spend it!

My argument regarding this original loan is that that agreement finishes Nov 2012, Due to their horrendous error/s if they reopen it now there will be a further 2 months to add onto that due to the fact i havent been able to pay it. I dont see why i should have to extend the term due to their error. Ive been paying for this loan for 30 months as it is and have never had any missed payments etc. Maybe im expecting too much but i have never ever heard of such a shambles!

 

You have inspired me now to see this through to County court and already i feel a slight sense of relief that finally I may get somewhere near soon to sorting this out! Thankyou!

[BankFodder]

Our help here is free- no strings attached. However we do expect you to have the technology.

You should purchase a decent scanner from PcWorld today. Also for your own protection you should buy a Truecall call recorder from Amazon. In your circumstances these are urgent. We will not be able

 

to help you most effectively without a scanner and without a recorder you will run intoserious trouble.

You are already having calls where they are saying things which they will deny later on.

I'll make another post later on.

 

From my phone

[danclarkio]

I appreciate that but i was not in a position to simply go out and purchase a scanner today. I wasnt aware it was a requirement when asking for help/advice.

[BankFodder]

It's not a requirement but if we try to take a close interest in your story then you will need to be able to scan documents

[intheblack]

please I am all over the place with this site - I had a property business so I just about have

issues with every bank. Santander I sent your letter about them not taking my subsistence

living costs. I got the template letter off here - twice my mortgage has been short because

they took charges when the account was cloned. Please tell me how to methodically get

through their maze of justifications.

 

Also Birmingham Midshires will not give me SAR? they have offered me £25 instead - HOW

do I get it (SAR) off them?

Thanks Tessa

[MARTIN3030]

Tessa you need to keep your issues in one place-I see you have posted 3 times about this in other threads.

I will sort a thread out for you and respond there.