CCJ business bank AC, personal guarantee - amount wrong?

[steampowered]

It would be good to have a little more info about your situation. There are a number of options which might be available. Why are you opposed to bankruptcy, depending on your circumstances this might be better than spending decades paying off the debt?

[debbbbsy]

If you have no assets, a low income which only covers your overheads, are not employed in the financial sector......why not look at bankcruptcy as an option. It maybe a blessing, if this debt is so high....why be burdened with it indefenitely, when atleast bankcruptcy will give you a defintive end and an opportunity to move forward.....look at Richard Branson, he was a bankcrupt, didn't stop him.

 

Look at this option seriously, especially if they are going to foot the bill.

 

Realistically, you haven't given us any figures. How much you owe and how much you are paying each month.....How long will it take you to pay this off ?

 

Personally,if this a large debt, I'd call there bluff. Write a response, making them fully aware of your financial situation, list your assets and income, stop making any more payments and say that you accept there offer to make you bankcrupt.

 

Debbie

[AndyOrch]

I would submit an application to vary payment N245 complete the I&E and proposed monthly payment.Irrespective if they accept or decline they will probably secure by way of a Charging Order ( assuming you have mortgaged property)

 

Regards

 

Andy

[scarydays]

Very short(ish) summary of the background ......

 

I was one of 3 directors of a company - the company banked with Bank of Scotland.

The company was placed into liquidation in 2008 with a debt owed to BoS.

 

 

I had signed a personal guarantee with the bank for a loan in 2005 (this loan had been paid off prior to the liquidation).

 

 

However the bank successfully pursued me personally for the debt owed at the time of liquidation through the County Court,

using this Personal Guarantee, and I ended up with a CCJ on my personal credit file, for the business debt.

 

 

They did not pursue the other 2 directors as they declared themselves bankrupt.

This was in April 2011.

 

 

I have been paying this debt off monthly since then, and will continue to do so for some time to come.

 

The bank regularly write to me to ask me to increase my payments or pay the debt off fully.

 

 

When they last wrote, in March, I noticed that the debt outstanding quoted in the letter had risen.

I never get any statements from them.

 

 

I wrote to ask for a statement.

After several weeks I received a letter apologising for the delay,

stating that as the accounts were company bank accounts I was not entitled to a statement.

They did however provide me with a list of payments I had made over the intervening years.

 

 

They went on to explain the interest rate that had been applied to the account, and interestingly,

the debt owed was now listed as over £54K less than in the previous letter,

with no explanation as to why there was a difference between the two amounts only 2 months apart.

 

This is not the first time they have overstated the debt owed.

They also did so at the time of liquidation which had devastating consequences

- as investors who were due to purchase the company out of administration didn't do so

on the basis of their incorrect calculations.

 

My question is,

can I send BoS a SAR under these circumstances to see what information they hold on me personally

in relation to these debts so I can begin to understand what is actually going on in there?

 

 

Or are they just going to come back with the excuse that these are company debts

and therefore I am not entitled to any information?

 

Many thanks,

[dx100uk]

14 threads merged for full history.

 

 

dx

[Guest]

why not. see what they come back with. personal data is p data.

[BankFodder]

My understanding is that the data protection act only applies to personal data. This means that in principle they wouldn't give you any information that simply relates to the company – but you may as well try and see what you get. Why not? In particular, they are attacking on the basis of personal guarantees. This means that they are managing to sidestep the corporate veil and so if they are prepared to do this in order to enforce debts against you personally, it seems to me that you can certainly have some information the release to you personally and your liabilities.

 

Secondly, the bank is obliged to treat you fairly. This applies whether or not you are a business or you are an individual. The treating customers fairly rules are extremely important and very rarely enforced by anyone. I have no idea why not.

 

You should start off reading the FCA Handbook and look at the rules under COBS and also BCOBS.

 

The bank has a duty to treat you fairly and also they have a duty to communicate with you fairly. It seems to me that if they are holding you liable for the company's debts and they won't let you have all the information that you need in order to understand the basis of your indebtedness and to plan around it, then this is potentially in breach of their statutory duty under the FCA regulations.

 

Have a read up and tell us what you think.

 

I'm not too quite sure – precisely what information is it do you think that they withholding from you – or that you need.

 

What about your co-directors? What is happening to them? You say that they stole money. This is a very serious allegation. Are you not able to prove it? Despite their bankruptcy, I would have thought that if they were guilty of some crime then you might be able to sidestep bankruptcy and attack them personally.

[scarydays]

Thank you @Bankfodder, I will have a look at the relevant sections in the FCA handbook.

 

My issue remains the amount the bank say was owed by the company, and ultimately owed by me personally. From the start they have pulled numbers out of the air with nothing to substantiate them.

 

 

1. The original particulars of claim stated that the amount owed was £157K. Despite repeatedly asking for how they arrived at this figure, I never received any information to back that up.

 

2. Just prior to the case being heard in court they sent a letter stating that interest had been incorrectly charged for the duration of the account. They provided no documentary evidence as to what the interest rate ought to have been, or how they came to realise their mistake. I quote "the bank can provide no explanation as to why this has occurred." The effect of this was to reduce the debt by £62K. They now claimed the debt was £94,677.12.

 

3. Whilst the company was in administration, prior to being placed into liquidation, there was an attempt made to rescue the company. The bank were offered a sum of £80K to settle any debts owed at that time and they turned down the offer. To discover a couple of years later that the debt allegedly owed was actually £94K, not £157K is sole destroying.

 

4. The judgement finally entered against me was for £112K (the £94,677.12 plus costs).

 

I have been paying this off in instalments since the judgement. I have never had any statement.

 

5. I received a letter from the bank in February which stated that the amount outstanding is now £163,654.72. I wrote to them to ask how they had arrived at this figure, and could they please provide a statement of account. They wrote back stating that the liability is £109,093.81 and that as the account is a company account, I am not entitled to receive any statement. These would need to be requested by the insolvency practitioner. They made absolutely no reference to the difference in amounts owed between the two letters!

 

6. On the company bank statements there are regular debits on the current account to Bank of Scotland, sometimes for up to £25K per month. I repeatedly asked the bank to explain what these transactions were for, and no explanation has ever been provided. The total of these transactions amounts to over £400K. These transactions also continued after all other activity on the bank account had ceased, as the insolvency practitioners had informed the bank that the company was in financial difficulties and all banking facilities were withdrawn.

 

7. There is also approx £100K of outstanding client invoices that were paid into the bank account, post administration, that have never been recognised by the bank.

 

I had no legal representation when this went to court as I was completely broke at the time.

 

As for my co-directors, they took substantial sums of money from the company. This was reported to the police at the time, but they were not interested in pursuing and said it was a civil matter.

[scarydays]

Is there anyone I can raise a formal complaint with regarding this issue?

I feel totally bullied by BoS.

 

My debt has gone from £157k to £94k to £112k to £163k to £109k

all with no statements or evidence to substantiate the amounts.

 

As far as I was aware at the time of placing the company into administration

the debt was £36k with £100k of invoices outstanding, which were paid.

 

Also the debt was limited company debt

they managed to pursue me personally for based on a personal guarantee they said existed.

 

I just feel I will never ever be able to move on from this.

 

It's being going on since 2008.

[Guest]

has it been to fos, if applicable.

did you do a sar.

 

These would need to be requested by the insolvency practitioner

has the insolvency practitioner done anything

[scarydays]

has it been to fos, if applicable.

did you do a sar.

 

 

has the insolvency practitioner done anything

 

I've just sent of a SAR - not hopeful of getting much info from it as they will say the accounts are business accounts.

 

The insolvency practitioners have themselves since ceased trading. Ironic!

[Guest]

ok. worth a try, given the amounts involved. see what happens.

 

ah. what happened re their accounts. did another take over?

 

what about the fos, has anything been done there.

[martin2006]

Hi scarydays,

i have read the whole of this thread and i can see only 1 solution for you,

even though it was not a route you wanted to take earlier in the thread,

 

 

i believe that bankruptcy is the only way you will ever see an end to this nightmare,

it will at least give you a definitive timeframe for when it will all be over.

 

Personally i would have done it years ago with a ccj that size,

i can see no point in fighting any longer for an outcome you probably already know in your heart of hearts, you will never get.

 

i dont suggest this course of action lightly but i do see it as the only way you will ever put it behind you

 

 

best regards

 

Martin