stevensdrake just sent court claim

[creditcorptrouble]

Yes, need to look at the claim form and Particulars of Claim please, quickly.

[creditcorptrouble]

It's easy enough to draft a defence in an effort to stay proceedings. How much are we talking about and what was the alleged date of the default? Stevens Drake (who are no doubt watching!) will be hoping you simply don't respond and obtain default judgment - that's why it's important that you file a defence.

 

For now, don't forget to file the Ackowledgement of Service (argh I still can't post links!): triple w dot inbrief.co.uk[slash]preparing-for-trial[slash]acknowlegment-service-n9 dot htm

[creditcorptrouble]

It costs you nothing to file a defence stating that you challenge jurisdiction, that the claim is ineffective due to no Section 80 notice being served (ineffective assignment), that there is no binding contract between you and the claimant etc etc and that they are put to strict proof.

 

They rarely hold proper documents to show a binding contract. The Australian courts are a bit looser with disclosure but the requirements in the UK are a lot stricter. Start fighting it and fire of a WP letter to Stevens Drake offering them to discontinue on a bear own costs basis in default of which you will seek costs if they continue.

 

You need to at least have full disclosure of documents from the claimant before you can even file a proper defence (for now you can file the best defence you can and then amend later). At very least you can rack up Stevens Drake's costs, as things rumble along a commercial decision may be made to drop it, or you can put in a formal offer pursuant to Part 36 CPR and put them at costs risks.

[creditcorptrouble]

Oh and request a breakdown as to how they have calculated the debt, when I got a letter asking for payment, the exchange rate used was most interesting. By my calculation A$20,753 is only GBP12,675. Remember the exchange rate is not in your favour at the moment, so delaying things may help. The debt should be converted to GBP on the date of judgment, so even if you lose if the exchange rate improves to what it was a year ago, the debt would be GBP12,509 - to what it was 2 yrs ago - just GBP9,744.

 

So if you can at least delay things by filing a defence and going through the disclosure process (which will be lengthy as delays through communication and notoriously poorly kept records) things can easily improve your exposure. It wouldn't surprise me that this sudden increase in attempting to collect Australian debts is in an effort to take advantage of the exchange rate.

 

Caveat: Of course, the exchange rate could get worse!

[creditcorptrouble]

Oh and yes, get your Australian credit report (they know where you are now anyway). If they have obtained judgment in Australia already, it will show up on the report, you can obtain a copy of the judgment and then put forward the absolute defence of res judicata http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Res_judicata

 

Hooray I can post links.

[creditcorptrouble]

Yes they can issue out of jurisdiction, as long as they haven't onbtained a judgment in Australia. Get your credit file from Australia to check this - they have been known to seek legal remedies more than once which is an abuse of process.

 

Have you received a Section 80 notice? If not put that in the defence and state that the assignment is ineffective. Deny the debt and check the exchange rate at oanda.com to ensure that it is being calculated correctly. The Particulars of Claim are not detailed enough for you to respond to so lodge a defence answering each paragraph with your answer. If the particulars are inadequate, say so. You also at the same time need to lodge a Part 18 request on them. You need to ask:

 

Was a Section 80 notice served, if so, when?

What was the alleged date of default?

What was the date of assignment of the debt?

 

And anything else that you think might help you. A good guide to Part 18 can be found here: http://www.pinsentmasons.com/PDF/RequestsforFurtherInformation.pdf

 

The last one is very important as between certain dates they were not licensed to collect debts - see http://www.creditcorptrouble.com/ccp.pdf - if you fall within those dates I would argue to the court that the assignment was illegal as the company is based in New South Wales and did not hold the requisite licence to even collect this debt.

 

Here is an example paragraph to the Particulars of Claim that you would expect to see in a Defence:

 

3. As to paragraph 3 of the Particulars of Claim, the Defendant is unable to meaningfully respond as further and better particulars are required. The alleged date of default has not been stated, and in the absence of disclosure, the Defendant is unable to admit or deny this allegation, but asserts that the claim is statute-barred. The Defendant will be serving a Part 18 request and reserves the right to file an amended Defence once the Claimant has properly particularised their claim.

 

You get the drift? Just deal with each paragraph one at a time and make it clear that you're requesting further information so that orders for disclosure and Part 18 requests will be put down. If you're lucky, they won't have the documents to support it. State that you are unable to admit or deny that any contract subsists until disclosure has been made. If you asked for your credit contract or other details before they issued, then say so in your defence. Disclosure of documents will always be critical in these types of cases because often there is no documentation and they're just trying it on. If there is documentation, then you want to see it. It may very well have a clause that states that it is agreed that any proceedings will be issued in a certain state, for example, my mortgage says Queensland is where proceedings will be issued.

 

At the initial directions hearing, I would ask for a two month stay so that you can obtain records from the Australian credit reporting agencies as you believe that there is a possibility that proceeings may have already been issued in Australia and that you need to check up on that.

 

Obviously all of the above is not legal advice as I am not a legal practitioner, it is merely for the purposes of discussion. I would like to assist you further privately with forms etc but I do work full time and study part time so it's hard - but if you get stuck send me a PM.

[creditcorptrouble]

For what it's worth, A$20,753.46 was worth GBP13,094.60 at the interbank rate on 14/3, so I would state that the interest has been over-calculated or inflated.

 

Forgot to mention that you should ask for it to be transferred to your local county court, if Horsham is inconvenient.

[creditcorptrouble]

If you feel as though you owe them something, make them a low offer (say one third of the amount claimed) but mark it "without prejudice save as to costs" and make sure that states that the offer is pursuant to Part 36 see http://www.pinsentmasons.com/PDF/Part36offerstosettle.pdf

 

If you don't think you owe them anything then make the same offer but the offer is for them to discontinue proceedings on the basis that each party bears its own costs. It should still be Part 36.

 

At very minimum you should do the latter, because if you get solicitors involved later, and SD fail in their claim then the costs that you have incurred will be fully recoverable.

[creditcorptrouble]

My understanding is that there is a convention similar to the Lugano convention that permits issuing proceedings between countries that have signed up to the convention.

 

What's really important to check though is whether proceedings were issued in Australia, if so, they cannot be issued in the UK as well, so get your Australian credit file and check if there's a judgment listed. Often the bank/credit card company have obtained a judgment and then companies like Credit Corp issue proceedings again. I have been given copies of documents just last week that confirms that they do this. They cannot be trusted and they are liars. And because it's a corporation of more than ten employees, they cannot be defamed (that one's for the moderators!).

[creditcorptrouble]

Having said that, I'd put in my defence that the court does not hold jurisdiction to hear the case and that it should be heard in Australia - then the burden of proving that the claim is capable of being pursued in the UK shifts to the claimant. There's nothing to be lost in trying.

[creditcorptrouble]

It appears that the relevant convention is the Hague Convention, of which Australia and the UK are both signatories.

 

I don't have time to read them just now, but the Civil Jurisdiction and Judgment Acts 1982 & 1991 are likely to be of relevance too: http://www.bailii.org/uk/legis/num_act/toc-C.html

[creditcorptrouble]

A number of people I have spoken to have managed to settle for 30% of the amount asked, but with having to put in some effort. That will give you some sort of guidance.

[creditcorptrouble]

The answer to the question is it depends - see Part 15.4: http://www.hrothgar.co.uk/YAWS/framecpr/part15.htm

[creditcorptrouble]

If you're not ready - ask SD for an extension. It is considered bad form in professional circles to refuse the courtesy of a 14 or 28 day extension. You can always file a defence that doesn't say much and then seek orders filing an amended defence at a later date. It is not uncommon to file an amended defence following disclosure as often the facts of the case change at that point.

[creditcorptrouble]

The problem with part 11 is it needs to be supported by "evidence". Now that can just be an ordinary old witness statement that says the debt is in Australia, the alleged default occurred in Australia whilst the defendant was in Australia and the claim would be governed by Australia's State and Federal laws and therefore the appropriate jurisdiction is in Australia. I guess you could muddy the waters by saying that you are in the UK temporarily and are considering returning to Australia, although you are not sure of when (it could be ten years!), and that may be enough.

 

Note that you have to make the application within 14 days of filing the AOS, although you could probably get away with doing it out of time and seeking leave for an extension on the same application.

 

I'd be interested to know the outcome of any such application.

[creditcorptrouble]

Hi guys, I've just recieved my allocation questionare from the courts, To say that i am ****ting a brick now would be an understatement it has to be back by may 6th. I really need to settle this before it gets to court. I can't run the risk of losing and be lialiable to repay the full amount ( now £14000). Any good idea's??

 

What's the difference in paying it now or running it and losing it? Additional legal costs incurred by them, but otherwise nothing else. Pay a CCJ within one month of the date of judgment and it's removed from your credit report anyway.

[creditcorptrouble]

Just fill it out. Answer yes for the one month stay to try and settle, nominate your local court where requested for reasons of convenience, say yes to complyiing to pre-action protocols, if you intend to make an application challenging jurisdiction or validity of assignment, make it and say so where required, allocate it to the fast track, final hearing 4 hours, ring SD and discuss proposed directions (ensuring they include an order for service of List of Documents and inspection of disclosure - critical), estimate your costs as zero unless you intend to instruct a solicitor.

 

Otherwise, at the end put in a blurb explaining that you intend to challenge jurisdiction and/or compliance with the appropriate state law etc in the bit for the judge so he knows something's brewing up.

 

It's a docile form that simply allocates the claim to a track and tried to help the judge set down an appropriate timetable.

 

Steam on, it only makes things more difficult for SD. It's critical that you require disclosure and challenge lawful or equitable assignment of the debt to Credit Corp if you didn't receive the Section 80 notice.

Edited May 4, 2011 by creditcorptrouble
Typos & additional information

[creditcorptrouble]

SD should propose directions, it is after all their case, those directions should include exchange of a List of Documents/disclosure as standard directions. If you wish to make an application use Form 244 http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/HMCSCourtFinder/GetForm.do?court_forms_id=484

 

For what it's worth filing a Defence (and possibly an Acknowledgement of Service) automatically transfers the matter to the court closest to the defendent as I understand it.

 

If you do nothing you will have a 14K CCJ anyway so I suggest you keep going and if you fail you will have a 14K CCJ as well. Nothing to lose.

 

If you intend to throw the towel in, you should do it sooner rather than later in order to keep costs down and not take up too much peoples' time here

[creditcorptrouble]

Just send a letter to SD asking for their proposed directions. If you don't get them within seven days, write to the court and tell them that you have not received proposed directions from the claimant and could the court please issue standard directions.

 

Send a copy of the letter to SD.

[creditcorptrouble]

Well if you owe it and there's no way out of it, then your credit record will be impaired. Remember if you pay a judgment within one month then your credit record will stay clear, so start making plans now about where you can find the whole amount due if things turn out that way (if you can - it's a lot of money!)

[creditcorptrouble]

You need to agree a settlement before you can file a Tomlin Order. A precedent can be found at http://www.cedr.com/library/documents/settlement_agreement.pdf - but there is no point in doing so until you reach an agreement. If they are so confident that they will obtain a summary judgment, then they are unlikely to settle for anything but the full amount claimed.

[creditcorptrouble]

Howdy - for the sake of us all, what was the outcome of this?