Bailiff and Policed Forced Entry?

[scouseseamus]

Just after a bit of advice on this folks.

On Monday Night I returned home to find a bailiff with his foot jammed in our front door and my wife asking the bailiff to remove his foot.

I then went over and asked them what was happening, and they advised that they were here to do a walking possession of my house for rent arrears owed to a private landlord. I advised it was in dispute (It isn’t, but first thing I could think of), He didn’t believe me at all.

After about 10 minutes of asking him to remove his foot from my door he finally did to allow my 7 year old son to go into the house.

As he done that I made sure he couldn’t get his foot back into the door. Then the bailiff called the police reporting that a breach of the peace was happening. At no point did I threaten or use any kind of threatening behaviour to the bailiff.

Whilst I then went inside and phoned the police to advise that a bailiff company had attempted to force entry into my property. My wife then explained that when she opened the door the bailiff put his foot in the door and asked for myself. She said “I don’t know who you are and please remove your foot from my property” which the bailiff refused to do on several occasions. During the 5 minutes or so that the bailiffs were stood on the doorstep with their foot in the door, they were pushing the door and have caused my wife’s back condition to be unmanageable.

The police turned up about 30 minutes later and the bailiff sat in the car speaking to the constable.

Then the constable asked if he could come into the house, and like an idiot I let him in.

He advised that the bailiffs had claimed that they had already been into the house. Which they hadn’t.

I advised the officer that the bailiffs had attempted to force entry into my property which he did not believe. After a bit of arguing about the law he went outside to speak with the bailiffs. I went with him and was told that I had to go back in the house. I asked why I was not allowed to hear the conversation when I had an express interest. The office advised that if I didn’t go in then he would arrest me for being obstructive. At this point I went back in the house.

5 minutes later the officer knocked on the door. I let him back in carefully to be sure that there was no way that the bailiff could just force there way in.

The officer then advised me that he believed that the bailiffs had gained peaceful entry and when he left the property he was going to allow them into the house.

I argued with him advising that the bailiffs had not gained peaceful entry, but had attempted force entry and thus trespass. The officer wouldn’t have any of it and said, whatever happens the bailiffs would walk in when he walked out. He wouldn’t even leave by the back door to allow me to ensure that they didn’t just walk in.

When the officer left I stood in the door way with 1 bailiff stood half into the hallway. I put my hands up in the air and stated “I am not denying the debt, I am just refusing you peaceful entry into the property”.

The police officer then dragged me out of the door way and had me held over a 2ft fence whilst the bailiffs then entered my property.

Whilst I was outside 1 of the bailiffs threatened my wife with Social Services saying that she was endangering my 18 months life by holding him.

The bailiffs walked round and took the serial numbers of the non essential equipment. Whilst this was happening I phoned the creditor and arranged a payment plan with him that the bailiff agreed with.

The bailiffs then left the property without leaving any documentation.

My whole point to this is:

1. The bailiffs have attempted forced entry (A foot in the door is forced entry as per the direct.go.uk website.

2. At no stage did the bailiffs show any identification to either myself or my wife, however the officer was satisfied with the paperwork he saw.

3. Did the police officer act illegally in allowing them into the house.

4. Did the office assault me by dragging me out of the house.

5. Did the bailiffs cause actual bodily harm to my wife by worsening an existing condition.

6. Did the police conspire with the bailiffs to commit forced entry illegally.

I have made a complaint to the relevant police force, and a duty sergeant will be visiting me tonight to discuss this. Any information or guidance you can provide by 8.00pm tonight would really help me out.

[caledfwlch]

Tell the sergeant that if they do not go to the police complaints commission, you ill be going yourself, and go to them anyway.

 

Make sure the officer's career is completely destroyed, he does not deserve to wear the uniform after this.

[scouseseamus]

Oh I will be doing that, got a mountain of paperwork printed today, to show exactly where the gits have broken the law and possible infringement my human rights.

[brassnecked]

Send your wife to the doctors and confirm that her condition has been made worse by the bailiffs physical actions against her (pushing the door), as this might be able to push the police to investigate ABH against the bailiff. It certainly wouldn't do the bailiffs case any good if this is proven.

[Surfer01]

Good on you. One bad officer destroys the reputation of other good officers.

[scouseseamus]

My wife attended the doctors yesterday and has now nreceived different medication to help her sleep and manage the extra pain.

[ploddertom]

You say he called Monday night, what time - I'm in the wrong place to look this up but believe they may only call during daylight hours for rent arrears, hope someone can check this for me as not 100% certain.

 

PT

[scouseseamus]

Sorry, it was about 5.15pm that they attended. Nothing illegal in that.

[ploddertom]

Sorry, it was about 5.15pm that they attended. Nothing illegal in that.

Sunset was 5-04pm on Monday in London, if further north it may have been earlier. As for the sergeant coming to see you this should be escalate to the Duty Inspector or higher.

 

PT

[brassnecked]

Sunset was 5-04pm on Monday in London, if further north it may have been earlier. As for the sergeant coming to see you this should be escalate to the Duty Inspector or higher.

 

PT

 

Due to your wife being injured vis condition worsened, by the bailiffs actions i would agree with ploddertom, escalate this higher than the Sergeant, later possibly MP to focus attention on the way bailiffs operate in general.

[hallowitch]

have you read this

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?173481-Devon-and-Cornwall-police-guidelines-for-police-and-bailiffs-alike-(Home-office-guide-lines-issued-to-all-Forces)

[rebel11]

Hi Scouse

 

Heres the Bailiffs Association, info on here will help to build your case, it's got their Code of Conduct, but you might consider complaing about that company and that Bailiff:- http://www.ensas.org.uk/codeofpractice.asp

 

http://www.ensas.org.uk/complaints.asp

[scouseseamus]

Due to your wife being injured vis condition worsened, by the bailiffs actions i would agree with ploddertom, escalate this higher than the Sergeant, later possibly MP to focus attention on the way bailiffs operate in general.

 

Thank you will ask if it can be escalated to an inspector if the Sgt turns out to be an idiot. However, he has spoken to me a few times and does seem genuine.

 

 

have you read this

 

QUOTE]

 

I have read that one and printed it off for reference. Not sure if the Merseyside Police will accept that, but it is a precedent that might be submissable.

 

I think possible next step would be to see if I can get legal aid in this and get a solicitor to do all the dirty work and get their costs off the DCA and the police.

[scouseseamus]

Hi Scouse

 

Heres the Bailiffs Association, info on here will help to build your case, it's got their Code of Conduct, but you might consider complaing about that company and that Bailiff:-[/QUOUTE]

 

Thanks for that information, now all I need to find out is WHO THE DCA WAS as we have not received any letters from them, or saw any identification either.

[ploddertom]

Hi Scouse

 

Heres the Bailiffs Association, info on here will help to build your case, it's got their Code of Conduct, but you might consider complaing about that company and that Bailiff:- http://www.ensas.org.uk/codeofpractice.asp

 

http://www.ensas.org.uk/complaints.asp

 

Not being funny but probably a worthless exercise contacting them, they exist purely on the subscriptions of their membrs, all Bailiffs and very rarely find fault with any complaint.

 

PT

[ploddertom]

 

as we have not received any letters from them, or saw any identification either.

 

If it was indeed a Bailiff he must be Certificated. The only person who may be able to tell you is your Landlord. Beware any fictitious charges coming your way, particularly as you say the left you no paperwork.

 

PT

[wonkeydonkey]

You could of course request the officer that attended provide you with a copy of his "incident report" which should include the name/s of the bailiff that he allowed into your home?

[fork-it]

1. The bailiffs have attempted forced entry (A foot in the door is forced entry as per the direct.go.uk website.

2. At no stage did the bailiffs show any identification to either myself or my wife, however the officer was satisfied with the paperwork he saw.

3. Did the police officer act illegally in allowing them into the house.

4. Did the office assault me by dragging me out of the house.

5. Did the bailiffs cause actual bodily harm to my wife by worsening an existing condition.

6. Did the police conspire with the bailiffs to commit forced entry illegally.

 

Im afraid I dont have very good news for you, but here goes.

 

1. The police definition of "forced entry" is not the same as Breaking & Entering. A certificated bailiff carries a card that authorised him to enter a property "without permission" and the police call that "forced entry" and say its lawful. Its know in civil enforcement that jamming a foot into the door is called the Threshold Manoever.

 

2. He should have sown ID but im not sure of the legal position however I do know the law requires he must carry it. Check hios certificate is valid, if not then you have a noce ace up your sleeve on the bailiff and police officer (for failure to properly check the bailiff carried the appropriate authority) See Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970. http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/CertificatedBailiffs/

 

3. Not as far as I know, but even if he did, proving it his word against yours and the police will close ranks, so you will need to sirect your complaint to the IPCC if you find a police officer has concealed evidence of a crime. A very difficult burden of proof.

 

4. Yes, its a criminal offence under the Offences Against the Person Act 1861. Dont expect the Crown prosecution Service to be entheusiatic about charging a bailiff or a police officer for assisting.

 

5. Yes, it a pre-existing contition has been aggravated, and that qualifies for a claim under the Personal Injury Protocol. You will need a Personal Injury Solicitor to file the claim against the authority that contracted the bailiff. Not a good idea to sue the bailiff company because they usually have a slush fund for this very purpose.

 

6. Dont know, unless anyone else was present when the bailiff and police officer spoke to each other in the police car. Its hard to prove whether a police officer was assisting an offender when nobody else saw it.

[scouseseamus]

Thanks for your help with this people.

 

I know it will be a hard one to prove to anyone, especially if they close ranks with the officer.

 

I am willing to carry this one as far as I possibly can, I know I am in the right, however as already been posted above, knowing and proving are 2 completely different things in the real world.

 

Hopefully the officer will have entered into his police report that the DCA gained peaceful entry by putting his foot in the door. If that is in the incident report then I will have them by the short and curlies, if not then it will be difficult.

[brassnecked]

Im afraid I dont have very good news for you, but here goes.

 

1. The police definition of "forced entry" is not the same as Breaking & Entering. A certificated bailiff carries a card that authorised him to enter a property "without permission" and the police call that "forced entry" and say its lawful. Its know in civil enforcement that jamming a foot into the door is called the Threshold Manoever.

 

2. He should have sown ID but im not sure of the legal position however I do know the law requires he must carry it. Check hios certificate is valid, if not then you have a noce ace up your sleeve on the bailiff and police officer (for failure to properly check the bailiff carried the appropriate authority) See Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970. http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/CertificatedBailiffs/

 

3. Not as far as I know, but even if he did, proving it his word against yours and the police will close ranks, so you will need to sirect your complaint to the IPCC if you find a police officer has concealed evidence of a crime. A very difficult burden of proof.

 

4. Yes, its a criminal offence under the Offences Against the Person Act 1861. Dont expect the Crown prosecution Service to be entheusiatic about charging a bailiff or a police officer for assisting.

 

5. Yes, it a pre-existing contition has been aggravated, and that qualifies for a claim under the Personal Injury Protocol. You will need a Personal Injury Solicitor to file the claim against the authority that contracted the bailiff. Not a good idea to sue the bailiff company because they usually have a slush fund for this very purpose.

 

6. Dont know, unless anyone else was present when the bailiff and police officer spoke to each other in the police car. Its hard to prove whether a police officer was assisting an offender when nobody else saw it.

 

 

So OP's best hope is under head 5 the aggravation of the pre-existing condition, at least it is something for him to utilise.

[wonkeydonkey]

If that officer ordered you to allow a total strangers into your home without having throughly checked them out, then............he should be strung up by his b*lls IMHO

 

WD

[Thegreenpimpernel]

This issue must have been to court dozens of times.

There must be case law and precedent on this.

I sure i once read some case law, possibly on TT's site, i can't remember, but i'm sure a judge ruled that the right of 're-entry' did not imply the general right to re-enter, rather the specific right to gain access to the levied goods specifically. Which are of course the property of the bailiff / authority from the moment of seizure.

I think this concept has been discussed here before, specifically whether leaving the levied goods on your doorstep for collection removed the right to 're-enter'.

[Thegreenpimpernel]

I've also just remembered that there was a rather disturbing thread on here some time ago, where the bailiff had forced his way past a lady. She took the incident to a 'form 4' hearing.

Her complaint was denied (of course) BUT at no point did the judge (despite his bias) say anything to the effect of "tough, once his foots through the door that's it".

I recall the argument was whether she had let him in. Her word against his.

 

The idea that a foot in the door constitutes peaceful entry, in a nation where every front door I've ever seen opens inward, means that this tactic would be lawfuly used EVERY time a door was opened.

It isn't, not even by the most unscrupulous bailiffs. That fact alone says something about its legitimacy.

 

Any thoughts?

[Thegreenpimpernel]

In support of my point in #22, i've pasted a quote from Bristol & Suiter Bailiffs from another thread on this site:

 

 

"it then says we have a legal right to brake back in to your property to take goods seized should payment arrangement not met."

[wonkeydonkey]

2.3 Limits on the Bailiff’s powers

The HM Courts Service website makes plain that in the majority of cases, bailiffs can only enter a person’s home if they are allowed in by the person resident there. If there is nobody there, the bailiff can enter if a door is left unlocked or through a window that is already open.7 This is known as ‘peaceful entry’. Peaceful entry does not usually include:

1. being asked in by a young child;
   
2. breaking windows, doors or locks; or,
   
3. pushing past people to get inside a property.8
   

In