Newlyn Bailliff Charges for "phantom" visits

[jm08adm]

Hi,

 

First off, Id like to say this is a fantastic forum and despite my inability to grasp the law all that well and contribute, Id like to thank all those that do. Things that I have read on here have helped me out many times before (mainly in my dealings with the DVLA) but nonetheless this place is a valuable resource and long may it continue!

 

With that out of the way, Il explain my latest problem and I hope someone out there can help me with this.

 

Yesterday I received a supposedly hand delivered (there was no stamp on the envelope) letter from Newlyn Bailiffs. The letter stated that Newlyn PLC have been instructed by LB of Harrow to collect the outstanding amount and to enforce the warrant in accordance with the law. The letter further claims that they attended my property to seize and distrain my possessions to satisfy my Road Traffic Debt together with costs of removal.

The letter does not give the name of the Bailiff and is signed off as "Certificated Bailiff"

 

All of this relates to a Road Traffic offence I committed and allowed to escalate by ignoring the letters from LB of Harrow. I realise this wasn't the cleverest thing to do but at the time I was unemployed (I still am) and found burying my head in the sand an easier option. I am in the position now where I can pay the fine. However, the amount that Newlyn Bailiffs are purporting that I owe is £603.76. The original fine to LB of Harrow was £185 and I could'nt believe that the fees could be so exorbitant for one visit.

 

I rang Newlyn Bailiffs today and asked for a breakdown of charges on the account. This was given to me as:

 

Original Debt: £185

8/12/10 - Admin Fee for initial Letter: £11.20 + VAT @ 17.5%

12/01/11 - Bailiff Attendance: £200 + VAT @20%

19/01/11 - Bailiff Attendance: £67 + VAT @ 20%

31/01/11 - Bailiff Attendance: £70 + VAT @20%

 

Now, as I'm unemployed I spend all of my time at home. I was at home on the 12/01/11 and 19/01/11 and no Bailiff rang the doorbell and furthermore there was no sealed letter to indicate any Bailiff attendance. Furthermore, I have been through all of my mail and I never received the initial letter from Newlyn. The "hand delivered letter" I received yesterday was the very first correspondence I have had from Newlyn regarding this debt. I am 100% sure that no Bailiff attended on the 12/01 and 19/01

 

I have no problem paying off the initial debt of £185 but these phantom charges that Newyln have applied are outrageous.

 

I contacted LB of Harrow today to try and do this directly to them and was told I had to go through Newlyn Bailiffs. I then decided to try and pay the fine online throught the Harrow.gov website and was able to make the £185 payment. To clarify, I have now paid the £185 to LB of Harrow online through their online fines payment page.

 

What I would like to know is can Newlyn Bailiffs still chase me for their fees. Also, is there any way I can do about these fees as im 100% confident they never attended my property when they charged my £200 and £67 respectively. I also cannot understand why the charges vary so wildly from £200 for the first "visit" to £71 for the 3rd. I spoke to a phone representative of LB of Harrow regarding these fees and they said they cannot take responsibility for the fees that the Bailiff charges

 

I am also worried that Newlyn make "attend" my property again and as I live with my parents, this isnt the sort of thing I would want them to see.

 

Just as a further note, I asked Newlyn for the name of the Bailiff who attended and they refused.

 

If anyone can help me out here, I would be most grateful. Im sorry for thelong post but I thought the more detail I give, the easier it might be to advise. Can Newlyn still attend my property given that I have paid LB of Harrow the £185 online?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Jitesh

[kirsun10]

The Bailiff has be officiated by the court and can charge fees they deem fit. This is a difficult on as this is fighting against the court and the council, and to the court, it would seem you have ignored them.

 

I do feel, and am saddened to say this one you can not get away with. A warrant is just that and can not be nullified. Maybe in hinsight you should have apealed or at least talked to the court and not bury your head in the sand. You should have fought it then.

 

It is too late and everytime you delay now will cost you more and more money.

 

I know it is a downer but you should have been more cautious as to how to deal with situations that arise sepite the condistion of you work. That may have helped.

[jm08adm]

As said previously, Im not trying to get away from paying but I dont think I should be paying the charges for visits they claim to have made but which I am certain they didnt.

Having done some reading around on here, it would appear that this isnt an isolated incident and that Newlyns Bailiffs have been charging fees for phantom visits on a few occasions.

 

Also are the fees they charged regulated or capped like they would be for instance in council tax cases. Like I said, no Bailiff has ever called at my address and I didnt even receive the initial letter to tell me that Bailliff action was impending. The first knowledge I had was the letter received on 31/01/11

 

I have emailed tomtubby via their site but as yet got no response. I just want to get the ball rolling on these "fees" before Newlyn have the chance to put any more on top.

[kirsun10]

The only way I can se to resolve this is to ask the court as they are official court Baliffs. You need to request their logs or even make a complain against them to the court.

 

You know how it is, once you got court backing you can do and say what you like. They proberbly enjoyed a nice cheese roll down the café. But can you prove that?

 

Just trying to be helpful as everyday they will find a charge to make more money

Edited February 2, 2011 by kirsun10

[king100]

Road Traffic (parking penalties)

Fees

For preparing and sending a letter advising the client that a warrant is with bailiff and requesting the sum due £10

For levying distress where the sum due is not more than £100 £25

For levying distress where the sum due is more than £100 25% on the first £200 and 5% on any sum over £200.

For attending to levy distress but where no levy is made Reasonable costs, but not more than the fees that could be charged if a levy were made.

The fee for sending a letter to the debtor can be charged only if the letter is sent before a first visit is made.

Bailiffs are allowed to charge the fees for a maximum of three visits only.

Charges

Walking possession 50p each day for the first 14 days and 5p a day after that.

Valuation Reasonable fees, charges and expenses of the broker.

Removing goods or attending to remove goods where no goods are removed Reasonable costs and charges.

Sale of goods 15% of the proceeds of sale if the sale is held on auctioneer's premises to cover the auctioneers commission and out-of-pocket expenses, plus the reasonable cost of advertising, removal and storage.

OR

7.5% of the proceeds of sale where the sale is held on the debtor's premises to cover the auctioneer's commission, plus out-of-pocket expenses actually and reasonably incurred.

 

Thats what you owe them

 

£185 - Fine

£10 letter

Total £195

 

£48.75 for 1st visit

Total after 1st visit £243.75

£60.94 for 2nd visit

Total after 2nd visit £304.69

£76.17 for 3rd visit

Total after 3rd visit £380.86

 

minus what you paid which is £185 so you owe bailiff £195.86 + VAT

[hallowitch]

good post king but the fees have changed i think its 28%

letter fee is £11.20

[jm08adm]

Hi king, thanks for your post. My problem

is that I don't feel that I owe them for the supposed first 2 visits seeing as I'm certain they didn't turn up and there was no letter. I'm not against paying if they turned up. I'm sure they have only attended once. I never even got the initial letter. If what king has said is correct then I owe at most (assuming they did send the initial letter) £11.20 plus vat and the first visit fee that king quoted. That would amount to around 60 ish plus vat. I can live with that.

 

How can I go about reducing the fees?

[jm08adm]

Right, Ive done some reading and writing and using extracts Ive found online, have made up the following letter which I shall be sending to Newlyn PLC tomoro. Can anyone tell me if this letter is ok or if there is anything I can add or remove from it?

 

 

 

XXXX

XXXXXX

XXXXX

XXXXXXX

XXXXXXX

2nd February 2011

Newlyn Bailiff

FAO The Data Protection Officer

P.O. Box 933

Northampton

NN1 9DX

 

Dear Sir/Madam

RE: XXXXXX, Newlyn Reference: XXXXX, Council Reference: XXXXXXX. REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

Data Protection Act 1998 Subject Access Request

 

I received a letter from your company on 31/01/11 regarding the above account. The letter was hand delivered and demanded £603.76 as payment for an outstanding debt to LB of Harrow. Upon speaking with your phone representative, I have been told that the charges relate to three alleged visits including that on 31/01/11 to my address and an initial letter. I have never received any correspondence from Newlyn plc regarding this matter prior to 31/01/11 nor has any Bailiff attended my address and/or left any letter to this effect. I would like to give you the opportunity to review my account and your Bailiff records and amend them to reflect actual Bailiff visits and correspondence sent and to amend your fees such that they comply with the relevant legislation.

 

Please would you kindly provide full and complete copies of any and all data you hold which relates to me and my entire history with your company. I have enclosed the statutory maximum of £10.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, take note that the enclosed cheque is payment for the fee relating to my Subject Access Request only and not a payment of any other kind or to be used for any other purpose. If you do not require a fee in order to process my Subject Access Request then kindly return or destroy my cheque.

 

For your convenience I have detailed below a list of what I require, although this is not an exhaustive list by any means and is just an example of some of the information I require with regard to any accounts I may have had or may still have with your company.

 

 

1. Computer screen notes relating to the conduct of my account.

2. Computer screen notes relating to transactions that have gone through my account.

3. Internal messages or notes relating to the conduct of my account.

4. Internal messages or notes relating to transactions that have gone through my account.

5. Recordings of any telephone conversations, whether internal or external, relating to my account.

6. Copies of any e-mail's, or other electronic communications, whether internal or external, relating to my account.

7. Copies of letters relating to my account.

8. All information relating to litigation or pre-litigation that has taken place on my account.

9. A detailed statement of account showing a breakdown of all costs charged, showing in each case the reason for the cost and the actual cost against that item.

10. Copies of all reviews conducted relating to my account.

11. Copies of all other paperwork relating to my account.

12. Copies of any and all documentation issued to me or left at my property regarding my account.

13. The name of any Bailiff who has attended my address

14. The name and address of the court that certificated your Bailiff

 

And all other information relevant or related to this request.

I trust that the above is clear and should you be in any doubt as to your obligations as a Data Controller, then I would advise that you consult your corporate counsel.

 

As detailed above, I have enclosed the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one to which all previous correspondence has been issued. Whilst I appreciate the Act allows you 40 days from the date of this request to fulfil your obligation, I look forward to receiving the above at your earliest convenience.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

 

XXXXXXXXXX

[jm08adm]

Also, should I send a copy of this to the Local authority?

[ploddertom]

You don't actually need to send for SAR a request for a breakdown of their fees should be more than sufficient. Don't forget that if you do go down the SAR route they have 40 days in which to reply and it does NOT prevent enforcement taking place in the meantime.

 

PT

[jm08adm]

Thanks Tom

 

Do you think Id be better off paying Newlyn off in full to stop enforcement and then retrospectively chase them for unlawful fees? Once I have paid them is there any way I can complain to London Borough of Harrow and Newlyn and if neccesary (only if absolutely neccesary) take it through the courts to get my money back?

[ploddertom]

Whether you pay or not has to be your own decision, however bear in mind that the costs will only go in one direction and that certainly is not down. If you do decide to pay you have 6 years in which to claim back any charges that were not relevant to you. You send off for a breakdown of the charges ASAP - sample letter below. If there are any charges that are not applicable you write and ask for them back - remember the Council are 100% liable in this and if push comes to shove and you have to commence proceedings you would name Council & Bailiffs as co-defendants.

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

 

Use and adapt as you see fit, send initially by email backed by a copy in the post sent Signed For.

 

As for complaints don't hold your breath, the Bailiff Company will back their Bailiff and the Council not knowing how things work will usually back the bailiff also.

 

PT

[jm08adm]

Eventually sent a letter similar to PlodderToms one and got the following from Newlyns:

 

Original Debt: £185.00

First Letter: £11.20 + £1.96 VAT

Enforcement Fee: £145.00 + £29.00 VAT

1st Visit Fee: £55.00 + £11.00 VAT

2nd Visit Fee: £67.00 + £13.40 VAT

3rd Visit Fee: £71.00 + £14.20 VAT

Payment by Debit Card Fee: £12.23 + £2.45 VAT

 

I still maintain that they never sent me a first letter and the only visit they made was on 1st Feb and that visit 1 and 2 never took place. How much of these charges could I claim back? No levying took place and no one ever entered my property. Can they also charge me a fee for using a debit card?

[Tingy]

good post king but the fees have changed i think its 28%

letter fee is £11.20

 

You are correct HW!

[brassnecked]

Eventually sent a letter similar to PlodderToms one and got the following from Newlyns:

 

Original Debt: £185.00

First Letter: £11.20 + £1.96 VAT

Enforcement Fee: £145.00 + £29.00 VAT

1st Visit Fee: £55.00 + £11.00 VAT

2nd Visit Fee: £67.00 + £13.40 VAT

3rd Visit Fee: £71.00 + £14.20 VAT

Payment by Debit Card Fee: £12.23 + £2.45 VAT

 

I still maintain that they never sent me a first letter and the only visit they made was on 1st Feb and that visit 1 and 2 never took place. How much of these charges could I claim back? No levying took place and no one ever entered my property. Can they also charge me a fee for using a debit card?

 

Are bailiff fees subject to VAT? I don't think they are, and I think they are extracting the urine with their card transaction fee, as I don't think they are allowed to charge these.

 

Other Caggers will be able to help further with this info

[jm08adm]

They can charge VAT on fees related to road traffic debts. My main concern is whether the visit fees are correct and where I stand with regards to the enforcement fees. I also want to know how to go about disputing the fees related to the phantom visits.

[ploddertom]

With regards to the letter ask them to produce the Ceritficate of Posting.

 

PT

[dbcc33]

if you think you're right my advice is to NOT pay the bailiff fees as its very difficult to get them back inretrospect unless you can prove negligence on the council/bailiffs behalf. the problem you have though is that you admit to ignoring the tickets. In my case i never received any tickets and the first i knew was when my car was clamped.

[dbcc33]

Btw...harrown council and newlyn bailiffs are one of the worst around!!! Newlyn definitely make up PHANTOM visits --I can vouch for that!

[dbcc33]

they also make up Phantom VAn/ TOW truck usage!

[dbcc33]

I am one of the lucky ones as i had my stat dec accepted by the TEC and got my clamp released wothout paying a penny--however i ahve had my car clamped for weeks and had to go through all the stress of the bailiff's extortion!

whilst i could stop now i am determined to fight this on behalf of everyone else out there who is not so lucky so have started a petition with a view to getting parking legislation to change but will need all the support of people on here. unfortunately as a newbie i am not allowed to post a link yet but once i qualify i will send it round.....watch this space!

[tomtubby]

I am one of the lucky ones as i had my stat dec accepted by the TEC and got my clamp released wothout paying a penny--however i ahve had my car clamped for weeks and had to go through all the stress of the bailiff's extortion!

whilst i could stop now i am determined to fight this on behalf of everyone else out there who is not so lucky so have started a petition with a view to getting parking legislation to change but will need all the support of people on here. unfortunately as a newbie i am not allowed to post a link yet but once i qualify i will send it round.....watch this space!

 

I have been ill for the past week and had not realised that your application has been ACCEPTED. Well done....

 

Please do email me in the morning.......

 

S.

[dbcc33]

Well actaully you were right with your other response they ahvent so much ACCEPTED as I won by default as they didt respond, so I think you are right in that they can still appeal. HOWEVER, I have been phoning the TEC every single day from the day of the deadline onwards (about 3 times a day) to check where they are through their backlogs so i know for sure that they have exceeded their deadline with no response. I also kicked up a lot of fuss about the TEC purposefully giving the council more time by accepting councils appeals 2 weeks later due to an "error" of not notcing they actually responded in time and i said i wasnt going to stand for that and made sure they checked and double checked that nothing had come in--i i have had this verified several times so it should be unlikely that they now go back on this........but i will have to wait and see. I might call the TEC this week to check whether or not there has been an appeal. I sent in quite a lot ofevidence to both the council and TEC to back up my stat dec so if im honest i think the council cant be botehred to fight me as i ahve proven to be "too much hassle"!. Actually it would be so easy for me to now just let it go because i succeeded in getting my car back without paying any fees but because i am soo astonsihed as to what the legl adminsitrative procedure allows, i am determined to make a difference. if it wasnt for people like you who advise others, many people would be compltely lost as to what to do when it happens to them--and this is simply not fair. hence my reason for starting my petition--which btw i will post on here the moment i am allowed to!

catch up soon.....

[dbcc33]

tomtubby --how do i send you a private message?--am new to this forum stuff!

[tomtubby]

Well actaully you were right with your other response they ahvent so much ACCEPTED as I won by default as they didt respond, so I think you are right in that they can still appeal. HOWEVER, I have been phoning the TEC every single day from the day of the deadline onwards (about 3 times a day) to check where they are through their backlogs so i know for sure that they have exceeded their deadline with no response. I also kicked up a lot of fuss about the TEC purposefully giving the council more time by accepting councils appeals 2 weeks later due to an "error" of not notcing they actually responded in time and i said i wasnt going to stand for that and made sure they checked and double checked that nothing had come in--i i have had this verified several times so it should be unlikely that they now go back on this........but i will have to wait and see. I might call the TEC this week to check whether or not there has been an appeal. I sent in quite a lot ofevidence to both the council and TEC to back up my stat dec so if im honest i think the council cant be botehred to fight me as i ahve proven to be "too much hassle"!. Actually it would be so easy for me to now just let it go because i succeeded in getting my car back without paying any fees but because i am soo astonsihed as to what the legl adminsitrative procedure allows, i am determined to make a difference. if it wasnt for people like you who advise others, many people would be compltely lost as to what to do when it happens to them--and this is simply not fair. hence my reason for starting my petition--which btw i will post on here the moment i am allowed to!

catch up soon.....

 

Have you had a copy of the actual Order from TEC to confirmed that revokation?

 

This is because, we now understand that in order to "save money" TEC are now only sending these out once a week!!!!