bailiff help needed!!!

[fruiticus]

Hello all,

I have read this forum on several occasions, usually out of general interest or research of some matter. Struck me that the advice was sound and very helpful. Also very engaging!!

Until now I have not registered but I have a bailiff story to tell, so here goes for my first post.

I will endeavour to give as much detail as you folks need but pull me up if there is anything I miss. Please. My situation starts with an unpaid congestion charge to TfL, I received a PCN, then a Charge certificate and finally an order for recovery. Total amount, I’m sure you are aware - £185.00. I don’t dispute this, out of sheer stupidity it went unpaid.

Anyway….. moving on……this leads to the bailiff(of the company EQUITA) becoming involved. I first received a letter, hand delivered, from them on 7th December, strangely I thought, it contained no mention of an amount now owed. I guess a kind of standard letter informing me that they had called today to execute a warrant issued by Northampton CC. and to call a mobile number within 24hrs or they would reattend at any hour of day or night to impound my car/remove goods.

Reasons I wont go into I never called the number. Stupid again I do know.

Not 100% on this next bit but soon after I received another letter, stating the new debt of £198.16.

After Christmas I sat down to pay bills and decided I best pay them off so I sent a cheque for that amount in early January.i think it was the 6th but will confirm this if need be. Thinking that was the end of it, I thought it was behind me. Ohhh no sir.

Another letter is hand delivered on the 10th. Similar to those before but also another sheet, titled FORM 7 notice of seizure of goods and inventory of goods. And on the same page a section titled FORM 8 form of Walking Possession agreement.

And a demand for £545.24. the inventory listed my car and had not been signed by anyone in my house.

I thought the payment was probably being processed, cheque clearance or something like and didn’t take to much notice.

Nothing for a while and again I thought it was done and dusted. Nope.

I answer the door to a guy this week(19th January) I explain that I had paid a few days before only for him to say he was aware of that and I owed a further £300 odd. I was gobsmacked.

If I didn’t pay immediately he would tow my car. I politely told him I wouldn’t be paying another penny and that my partner would be going to work in the car very soon. To this he replied that if we move the car he would report it stolen and I quote ‘ that will knock 5 grand of the value straight away’ my partner became upset. He then spoke to her in a tone and manner I could not accept and I told him to leave my property immediately. He made a call while still standing by the front door after I had closed it and then left.

Also in the period before our encounter we received a letter by normal post, but dated way back to 7th December! I mean post can be slow but nearly a month!!! This was titled ‘removal notice’

Sorry for the long winded post, I did write a less drawn out piece but I lost it in cyberspace somewhere before it hit the forum!!!!

I am hoping some of you fantastic forum folks will run the rule over these actions and advise me as to whether this is acceptable, lawful bailiff action? And whether the charges are to the rule?

I have further stuff to follow that I have researched myself and will post it as soon as possible. Im hoping for some clarification of things I have read.

But please guys, any questions, fire away.

Thank you in advance

And more thanks for any input. Tata for now

[fruiticus]

Hello again.

I have looked at the register of certificated bailiffs which I came across in another thread, of the 3 names I have seen on the letters only 1 is on the list.

Is this ok or should anyone coming to my home in this case, to collect money be on the register?

Does being given a form 7 mean my car is no longer lawfully mine?

 

Lastly, my car is worth in the regeion of 20k, can they really take it for payment of a £300 debt? Seems excessive to me. Please help me tidy this thing up. I need to get it sorted.

Stress is keeping me up at night!

Any advice would be great. Thanks

[seanamarts]

Do you know when the cheque was cashed?

[ploddertom]

Hello again.

I have looked at the register of certificated bailiffs which I came across in another thread, of the 3 names I have seen on the letters only 1 is on the list.

Is this ok or should anyone coming to my home in this case, to collect money be on the register? If you look closer you will also see there is a telephone number which you can contact the MOJ on, this is because the online list is not 100% accurate.

Does being given a form 7 mean my car is no longer lawfully mine? Yes - but is it on any finance?

 

Lastly, my car is worth in the regeion of 20k, can they really take it for payment of a £300 debt? Seems excessive to me. Unfortunately if it is the only item available then yes they can seize it. Please help me tidy this thing up. I need to get it sorted.

Stress is keeping me up at night!

Any advice would be great. Thanks

 

It would appear that you may have brought this on yourself as you say you have ignored all previous communications. I agree we have all done this at some time but this time it looks as if it has come back to haunt you. To be honest I think you may have to bite the bullet and accept what has happened and put it down to a hard learned lesson. I appreciate this is not what you want to hear but I see no other way round it. It may pay to look for posts by Tomtubby and ask if she is able to help you at all.

 

PT

[tomtubby]

It would appear that you may have brought this on yourself as you say you have ignored all previous communications. I agree we have all done this at some time but this time it looks as if it has come back to haunt you. To be honest I think you may have to bite the bullet and accept what has happened and put it down to a hard learned lesson. I appreciate this is not what you want to hear but I see no other way round it. It may pay to look for posts by Tomtubby and ask if she is able to help you at all.

 

PT

 

I do have to somewhat agree with ploddertom here but before answering in details could you provide a bit more info.

 

Apart from saying that " made a call while still standing by the front door after I had closed it and then left", you have not said whether you paid, whether the car was removed or what happened next. Can you confirm.

 

If there are no other goods available to remove, the yes, the bailiff can indeed remove a car. He does NOT need to have your signature on the Notice of Seizure.

 

Is the car on finance or subject to Hire Purchase. If so, then it is "exempt from seizure".

 

If the amount of the debt is paid BEFORE seizure, then unlike council tax recovery, the bailiff cannot use the Warrant of Execution to recover his fees. This was confirmed last year in the appeal case of JBW (Bailiffs) v City of Westminster.

 

The Operational Guidance to Local Authorities that was updated in November 2010 (which was issued by the Secretary of State) provides that payment is deemed to be made ON THE DATE THAT IT WAS RECEIVED. I would therefore argue that the same argument must apply to the bailiff's agent.

[fruiticus]

firstly, thankyou for the posts, i appreciate all you say.

i will call my bank for the date the cheque was cashed, that is very good thinking!

will also call to check on certification.

when the guy came to my home i had already sent a cheque for £198.16, this he acknowledged but demanded a total of £545.24.

i refused to pay him anymore and used my car as normal, my partner going back to work in it soon after. in the evening when it will not be used i ensure it is immobilised.

he stood outside, was on the phone for a minute or two and left in a small car type van. i have heard nothing more since.

the car is not on finance although i did get a personal loan to buy it.

i know i am at fault and will no doubt have to pay them more.

i am angry at their over inflated fees and the bully boy tactics they use to get paid.

[brassnecked]

firstly, thankyou for the posts, i appreciate all you say.

i will call my bank for the date the cheque was cashed, that is very good thinking!

will also call to check on certification.

when the guy came to my home i had already sent a cheque for £198.16, this he acknowledged but demanded a total of £545.24.

i refused to pay him anymore and used my car as normal, my partner going back to work in it soon after. in the evening when it will not be used i ensure it is immobilised.

he stood outside, was on the phone for a minute or two and left in a small car type van. i have heard nothing more since.

the car is not on finance although i did get a personal loan to buy it.

i know i am at fault and will no doubt have to pay them more.

i am angry at their over inflated fees and the bully boy tactics they use to get paid.

 

As you have used a personal loan for the car, rather than HP or a lease, the title vests in you, therefore the bailiff could seize and sell your £20k car for the

£545.24.

 

However all is not lost, and the experts will likely be along to advise the best way of dealing with this.

[ploddertom]

If the amount of the debt is paid BEFORE seizure, then unlike council tax recovery, the bailiff cannot use the Warrant of Execution to recover his fees. This was confirmed last year in the appeal case of JBW (Bailiffs) v City of Westminster.

 

The Operational Guidance to Local Authorities that was updated in November 2010 (which was issued by the Secretary of State) provides that payment is deemed to be made ON THE DATE THAT IT WAS RECEIVED. I would therefore argue that the same argument must apply to the bailiff's agent.

 

Following on from what it says above it will pay you to check the chronological events that followed - for example - you think you sent a cheque on 6 Jan but say you received a letter dated 7 Jan detailing the new total. If you can establish the correct dates you may have a chance of argument, in particular did you send your payment to the Council or Bailiffs and did you send by a trackable means, you will also need to check when it was cashed.

 

PT

[fruiticus]

Sent the cheque on 7th January. Didn't send it by any kind of trackable post. Was away from home unexpectedly today so will get other info tomorrow. Thanks again for your help.

[fruiticus]

ok. the cheque wasnt cashed until 19th january,(sent directly to bailiff address ploddertom)

which was the same day of his visit. still have not heard anymore. my car has not yet been towed.

 

have found all the names that have signed there letters on the register, but the 2 i couldnt find last time(previous post) appear to be registered with a company other than EQUITA. Is this allowed?

 

from the info i have given above is it possible for me to add up how much they are legaaly allowed to charge for fees?

 

thankyou for any help offered

[ploddertom]

have found all the names that have signed there letters on the register, but the 2 i couldnt find last time(previous post) appear to be registered with a company other than EQUITA. Is this allowed? At the time they attended you, were they registered with the other Company, if so you will need to ring the MOJ to confirm who they worked for on that particular date, it may be they had just updated their Certificates. Tel: 0207 210 0516

 

PT

[ploddertom]

ok. the cheque wasnt cashed until 19th january,(sent directly to bailiff address ploddertom)

which was the same day of his visit. still have not heard anymore. my car has not yet been towed.

 

 

Sounds to me as if they hung on to it in the office before they banked it, I would therefore argue that is their problem and not yours as you paid before the Bailiff attended, there may be an argument to suggest it was done deliberately so they could add extra fees. In this case you may need a SAR to find out when they received it.

 

PT

[fruiticus]

hi

 

thank you ploddertom,

 

your help and knowledge is much appreciated. i have phoned the guy at MoJ and although the 3 bailiffs are certificated, 1 has no company listed as his employer. the guy at MoJ said he was self employed and probably worked for several different companies as required.

The second at the time of there visit, is certificated but employer listed on the register was not Equita. Not sure if it is correct to name the registered employer on here so will just say i have the information. Does this help me?

 

I have not had any more contact from them and my car is still with me! is it possible that my payment has been accepted as full and they might leave me be? or is that wishful thinking!

 

thanks again

[ploddertom]

 

your help and knowledge is much appreciated. i have phoned the guy at MoJ and although the 3 bailiffs are certificated, 1 has no company listed as his employer. the guy at MoJ said he was self employed and probably worked for several different companies as required.

The second at the time of there visit, is certificated but employer listed on the register was not Equita. Not sure if it is correct to name the registered employer on here so will just say i have the information. Does this help me?

Trying to use a bit of logic here but may not quite work, you have 3 Bailiffs involved - A, B & C - Bailiff A works for Equita, B Works for another Company and C is self-employed. Is Bailiff A the one that is doing all the leg work and trying to collect? - if so and the other 2 are assisting then OK. If Bailiff B is doing all the work and he is Certificated to another employer then he can't legally collect. If it is Bailiff C then you need to check with the Local Authority that they allow their contractor, Equita, to sub contract - many do not.

 

I have not had any more contact from them and my car is still with me! is it possible that my payment has been accepted as full and they might leave me be? or is that wishful thinking! For the time being I think the latter.

 

thanks again

 

PT

[fruiticus]

ah, thanks ploddertom for giving me this help. very much appreciated.

the names i have are those that have been at the bottom of their letters. bailiff C signed the Form 7, the other 2 had 'bailiff in charge' under their names.

The one guy who i actually spoke too is anonymous as i told him to leave before i had actually seen his ID and he didnt introduce himself either (another error on my part:mad2: i can now see)

Although, i can categorically say he was definately not bailiff B.

I will call the authority to check on there position regarding sub-contracting. When you say local authority do you mean the court issuing the warrant or Transport for London who issued the pcn? (it all come about over an unpaid congestion charge ffs!!!)

will keep up the wishful thinking.

Should i contact equita or sit it out and wait? my family are a bit panicky and i am thinking this time inbetween contact could be costing me a fortune.

[ploddertom]

TfL

 

PT

[fruiticus]

hi ploddertom, i have contacted transport for london and was told i must contact the bailiff for the information i required! thanks TfL! i found a site called bailiffadviceonline where i read that indeed TfL state in there bailiffs contracts that they must not sub-contract.

i have since my last post received two letters, one saying WARRANT OF EXECUTION across the top and the other saying AUCTION NOTICE.

both telling me my property would be taken to local auction house and sold.

 

i have written to equita asking for full breakdown of charges and date the payment i sent was received.

will post the results asap.

[fruiticus]

thanks for all your help ploddertom

[ploddertom]

i found a site called bailiffadviceonline where i read that indeed TfL state in there bailiffs contracts that they must not sub-contract.

 

You will get some good help there.

 

PT

[fruiticus]

hi ploddertom,

was wondering if that site was on the level as a couple of things made me think something wasnt right. so glad that is cool.

have been told name of bailiff who is collecting on my account, he is one of the self employed/no employer kind. Can he collect

if Equita is not named as his employer on certificate? what should i say to him if comes for my car? thanks again really appreciate your help

[ploddertom]

The site you mentioned and the person who posted in Post 5 are one and the same.

 

PT

[ploddertom]

Have to say I'm a little out of my depth as I don't have much knowledge of this type of thing. However in this case I think you may need to get back on to TfL and see what they say, they then have the power to get on to Equita to try and sort this for you. Tomtubby may be the best one to advise you on this.

 

PT

[fruiticus]

ah right, ok ploddertom. thankyou for that.

trouble is tomtubby hasnt commented since then,

hope i havent caused offence in my last post, it is a very informative site.

[fruiticus]

hi all

 

i have received from equita the breakdown of there charges and this amount is less than they said i owed way back on January 10th!!!

i have the Form7, dated 10.1.11 stating i owed £545.24.

This is the breakdown i got today

 

parking fine: £185.00 (i assume they mean congestion charge)

initial letter: £11.20

visit fees: £55.00

attendance/removal fees: £175.00

VAT: £47.96

 

TOTAL: £474.16

 

payments received: £198.16 (14.01.11)

balance: £276.00

 

they also say they can confirm 2 visits to my property on 07.12.10 and 10.01.11 and the bailiffs names and dates of certification.

 

would appreciate some help in what i should do next, should i just pay up £276.00?

[ploddertom]

This is part of the bit I struggle on. I would say pay it all up then you are safe in the knowledge no one is coming to visit and adding yet more charges. You can then set about finding out if it was fair or not. You have 6 years to do this and getting any overpayment back is a matter of submitting an N1 in the County Court - if they become stubborn - against both bailiffs and the Authority that instructed them.

 

PT