My Sickening Experience with Arnold Clark and Citroën---Part 1-4 (part 5 coming soon)

[scaniaman]

My post is long and prompted by the absolutely disgusting treatment i have been subjected to by Arnold Clark employees and Citroën UK over the last two years.

In order to fully explain the situation, i must revert to my original involvement with Citroën in spring 2005, as this contains information which becomes crucial as the story unfolds.

 

June1st, 2005 saw me take delivery of a Citroën Picasso 1.6 (110bhp)Diesel from Motability.

Considering our needs at this time , the Xpic ticked all the right boxes in respect of ease of entry / exit and good fuel economy, etc etc. I ran this car for three trouble free years, but was unable to accept Motability's terms for a replacement at the end of the lease.

Near the end of the lease i was involved in a serious rear end accident for which i had to "carry the can". Following a thorough investigation into the accident, i identified a potentially dangerous brake problem and duly informed Citroën UK. Their response was that they would inform the factory, but considering this model was due to cease production by the end of 2009, IT WAS MOST UNLIKELY THAT ANY CHANGES WOULD BE MADE TO THE CURRENT MODEL.

 

So, this left me to source another XPic of my own, and an internet search led me to Arnold Clark (Citroën) Perth, who had a 2008 pre reg. 110bhp diesel XPic for sale. It was 8mths. old with delivery milage.

In part 2 i shall detail what, for us, has become a living nightmare, courtesy of Arnold Clark / Citroën.

[scaniaman]

PART2.

 

The LHO and I journeyed to Clark's in Perth and were introduced to a young Motability salesman. We viewed the car and I noticed the only apparent difference (apart from colour & upholstry) was that the exhaust tail pipe was turned down towards the ground instead of being straight out as normal. I commented this to the salesman and his reply was "THEY MUST HAVE CHANGED THEIR SUPPLIER" then "IT's MAYBE THE LATEST DESIGN.

Little did I know at this time ,that this bent exhaust pipe was indicitive of the car being fitted with what I now know as a FAP system. So much for Clark's Fully Trained Salesmen!! (revert to underlined sentence in part 1)

We decided to take the car and wanted it for 1st November, but the salesman was Desparate to have it through on October's figures, --and we now know why!!!

31st. OCT, and we went to collect car from Perth. Told it would be ready soon as the salesman had just gone to get it road taxed--we waited --and waited --and waited. Eventually, came an admission of TOTAL INCOMPETENCE when someone came and advised us that it would be some time before we got the car as they had tried to tax it at the local office, but discovered that me being a "disabled" driver, the registration docs. had to be changed from Private to Disabled. This entailed a journey to Dundee and a long wait in the taxation office there. They already knew I was disabled as I was handing back a Motability car. SO MUCH FOR CLARK's FULLY TRAINED SALESMEN.

In late afternoon we were taken outside, the car had been washed??? and parked Very Close to the Garage Wall. I moved it forward a few feet to allow the LHO to get in and we set off for home. Great to be driving what was to be my last new car!!! The car was left in my yard overnight.

Next morning, I went out to fit my reversing aid, and could not believe my eyes--sick in stomach I went back to house to get the LHO to look at the car. It had deep scores and dents to the rear lower mudwing next to the rear door. I phoned Clark's immediately, and their sales manager said they would get someone who owed them a favour to repair the car. (Parked Very Close to Garage Wall!!!!!!!). After TWO attempts the car was made right.

 

From an early stage I noticed that this car was heavier on fuel than my first XPic., but the handbook said that the engine would not reach full potential until after 3000mls., which is common on diesel engines. From 3000mls, I kept a strict record of fuel usage and this revealed that the car was 10%+ heavier on fuel, but varied greatly from tank to tank even on very similar usage. This was reported to Clark's.

 

During the early months I found the brakes deteriorating which was also noticed by the LHO. Took car to Clark's where the brakes were tested?? (But NOT Stripped Down). I was taken for a test drive by their technition, and he managed to lock some of the wheels (also found inherent brake problem which contributed to my crash!!!). I then heard for the first time Clark's Theme Tune ie. "There is nothing wrong with your car". The brakes got so bad that the LHO refused to drive the car and also refused to travel in it. At one point in time when the car was in Clark's keeping, they managed to put a chip in the windscreen---said they would repair---another story.

The car was taken to another Citroën stealer who stripped the brakes and found that partial seizure had ruined the discs and pads on the rear. New ones fitted under "Reluctant" warranty claim by Citroën.

 

In part 3 (2011), I will reveal the disgusting treatment as a result of my continued fuel complaints.

[scaniaman]

Happy New Year to everyone (with obvious exclusions). Just recovering from this flu virus that's going around at present.

 

After much moaning about the fuel consumption Clark's told me to bring the car in for tests. The car was supposedly subjected to a Diagnostic Computer check on the fuelling etc. The results of this test was my introduction to the boringly repetitive saying "There is nothing wrong with your car". This stems from the computer in that if no fault code shows up "THEN NO FAULT EXISTS". Utter urine as the same computer results show up with problems in other marques. It appears that these computers cannot show up every defect/ problem, and can't carry out every test that should be done.

Then began a long series of letters and emails with Citroën UK. It is not possible to publish them all on here but suffice to say that most replies i had were exactly the same, but signed by different people. "There is nothing wrong with your car". One "graduate" was foolhardy enough to suggest that "driver technique" was to blame for this excessive fuel consumption. I replied that , he was implying that up to 30/10/2008 i drove a Picasso diesel in such a manner as to be able to extract a minimum of 50 miles for each gallon used, BUT on 1/11/2008 i changed my technique, ON A NEW CAR, so as to achieve a fuel consumption of 10%+ higher!!!!!LOL.LOL LOL.

To this day, neither Arnold Clark or Citroën UK have given me any sort of logical explanation as to why this car is so thirsty, given that my lifestyle is so boring that i do the same jouerneys every week / month, often at the same times of day. Fuel is drawn mostly from Morrisons but the results seldom vary when other sources of fuel are used (even Shell). ASDA Kirkcaldy gave best ever results, the first time, and ASDA Dunfermline gave the worst ever readings under normal weather conditions.????????

There are very important parts of my plight that i cannot print as i cannot prove them, since they were during an interview with the GM at Clark's Perth, and a cheeky subsequent phone call from the same character. This would have been a real eye opener, i assure you!!! Citroën kept saying that the car was within factory limits so my next step was to ask the VCA for their official fuel figures. This drew a blank and they said they didn't have figures for this particular engine variant. ( so was it on the road illegally --not homologated???) Only after intervention by my MP did they miraculously come up with figures that showed this version was indeed 4% heavier on fuel---what about the other6+%??

By this time i realised that i was getting nowhere with Clark / Citroën so i turned to the internet to muster some help. Much excellent information came my way from experts on the Picasso Owners Website. Two gents in particular gave me information about this car that came as a complete shock ie, it was fitted with a FAP system???

More information, in highly detailed form, came from a poster on THIS site. He was able to explain that the problem was VERY highly technical, and frequently not understood by dealer staff as their training did not expand to this level. Long gone were the "Mechanical Diesels" i was brought up with, as these reliable work horses had been replaced with Hi Tech "Electro Diesels".---and it's all down hill from here.

In part four i shall detail the problems associated with the FAP / DPF systems, along with the responces from A. Clark / Citroën to my proposals.

[Surfer01]

I have a Ford Mondeo 2.0 diesel auto and the engine management light has been coming on. I took it to a Ford dealer who plugged it in and found four faults, cleared three, but had no idea what the other fault was however the engine management light was no longer on. Took the car and a few days later EML back on so took it to the Ford dealer from whom I had purchased the car. Turns out that the fuel vaporiser unit is faulty causing high fuel consumption but the car is driveable. They did not have a FV in stock so the car needs to go back to them at a later date.

I then did a check on this fuel vaporsier which is associated with the FAP or DPF on diesel cars and it seems that this may be a new type of fault on diesel cars. Basically it seems that it heats up the fuel to over 600C which helps clear the filter. If this does not happen, fuel consumption increases and eventually the engine starts chugging. I suspect that your car may have a similar problem but I am unsure whether the citroen is fitted with a fuel vaporiser as there is no fault code for it.

I think the FAP system adds an additive to the fuel and this additive needs to be topped up every 70,000 miles. You can blame the EU for all this carp regaridng diesels etc. They forgot that most engines etc were designed 10 years before they brought in their stupid emmissions regulations!

Sorry can't really help you but thought I woudl add the above as food for thought!

[scaniaman]

Part4.

 

Most modern diesels are fitted with a DPF or FAP filter, to meet these ridiculous Euro 4 regs. Car dealers "Don't Go Out Of Their Way" to inform their customers about these fitments or the LONG TERM SERVICE COSTS. On cars used predominently on long or high speed journeys, these filters do not require service until the 100.000 ml. mark. Problems can and do occur on low milage/speed cars, and service is required at around 70,000mls. (tough luck used buyer).

In my case, the car is fitted with FAP. This system involves the fitting of an "Eloys" tank next to the fuel tank. Every time the fuel cap is removed a sensor allows the injection of a tiny amount of eloys into the diesel tank. The purpose of this is to allow small particles of soot to burn off at much lower temperatures than normal and thus reduce soot emissions. (4% extra fuel just to burn off a wee bit of soot---counter productive or what??). Now for the science bit. The actual chemical used is a "Rare Earth" chemical called SERENE,(cerene?) which is very expensive. Some people have been quoted £300+ from Citroën stealers to top up the 5 litre eloys tank.

When this chemical burns in the exhaust system a carcenogenic compound is formed (toxic). Prices for the replacement of the DPF filter by main dealers is about the £700mark. So that's a grand if the tank and filter requires service at the same time. When it's time to have this work done a warning light appears on the dash and the AA states "Ignore This At Your Peril".

Now what has rattled my cage over the last two years is that neither Clark or Citroën ever mentioned any of this to me. Had i known about FAP i wouldn't have bought the car.

I spoke to four Citroën salesmen from different companies and only one said he had heard of FAP and it had something to do with the exhaust system. The other three had absolutely no idea what i was talking about. Citroën UK inform me that all dealers sales staff are fully trained. Well i don't know what they are trained in but it's certainly not "Product Knowledge".

 

 

Having slowly collected all this Hi-Tech knowledge, i asked both Clark and Citroën to pay for a diesel specialist to examine the car, as they have all the equipment to carry out tests which this Diagnostic carry on can't do.. Needless to say they both refused, and Citroen refused to pay for rectification work even if i paid for the tests myself---ALL WORK MUST BE DONE BY A MAIN DEALER---But how??? the dealers don't have the equipment or specialised knowledge to carry out this work.

The gentlemen from the websites gave me a list of tests that need doing, which i forwarded to clark/ citroën and which are outwith their computers scope---still refused even although the car is still UNDER WARRANTY (some warranty!!).

All these refusals simply fuel the fire that citroën are HIDING something BIG here.

I should perhaps point out that on the occassions when i contacted Clark with this hi-tec info they frequently invoked their usual customer relations tool ie. STONEWALLING.

This is why i formed the opinion that Clark's people DO NOT LIKE speaking to people with any knowledge of the motor trade whatsoever. This would be confirmed at a later "Special Deal" stage.

 

In utter desperation i thought i would report my plight to Trading Standards. I cannot say too much about this at present, as the staff who handled my complaint are presently under investigation for the way the complaint was handled.

I tried to phone Clark's customer complaints manager, but was informed that "He doesn't accept calls from customers". Contact by email was shambolic, and finished up with "The matter is now closed". Further attempts were, as usual, STONEWALED. Again, they insist that their diagnostic tests are comprehensive---THEY ARE NOT. More recently, on my advisors advice, I asked clark's to furnish me with written results from their exhaustive tests, again, STONEWALLED.

During all this period i have bent over backwards with clark's to come to a mutually acceptable settlement, and offered several scenario's to achieve this end, but to no avail.

Clark's recent comment to a party who acted on my behalf, states that Citroën have examined the car!! NO ONE FROM CIRTOëN UK has ever CLAPPED EYES on this car.

In part 5, i shall reveal how they tried to fob me off with a "Special Deal".

Edited January 10, 2011 by scaniaman
dippit

[Surfer01]

Once the issues with FAP & DPF gets more widely known in the public domain the price of second hand diesels cars will go through the floor. I mentioned this also on another thread. The only way thsi is really going to get known is when someone takes it to court, but it will be covered up because no manufacturer wants the problem known.

 

PS We are still waiting for the spare part for our car as it has an effect on the DPF!

[heliosuk]

The problem in Scanias case is more to do with a side issue associated with the emission system he has on his car. Lets be clear, the reality is that it's caused by having a DPF system fitted. However, the problem being highlighted is that Arnold Lark and ****roen UK relied on the standard diagnostic tests and there is no evidence that they are willing to provide any test results to rule out any other cause which could indeed be the case. These are basic tests that any responsible manufactuer would request are carried out and will NOT show on any diagnostic equipment. AL and manufactuers dealers just don't have the equipment to test this yet it is simple and quick and would prove either way where the issue lied.

 

There is then the problem, which I still think is a problem where the VCA didn't have a record of such a vehicle in the UK and I would alledge this was quickly covered up as well.

 

Normal procedures for any manufactuer would be to take the car in and check it under such a complaint but this was refused as well. Trading standards and others didn't understand what was going on or how to deal with it as I understand it.

 

The problem being is that not one of the organisations who could do something about it understands the issue at hand or is willing to ask what it is.

 

If this was Eddie Stobbart company complaining then believe me, Citroen ( if they made heavy trucks) would be doing some very serious puckering up over a 10% fuel consumption difference.

 

The fact is AL and TS and Citroen don't know how to handle this as if they came clean I feel there might be rather a lot of egg on face around!!

[scaniaman]

Surfer. A few makers have come clean and admit that problems with DPF do exist, however the PSA group don't appear to be in this category and some dealers also deny any knowledge of the problem. Last year there were about 9 lucrative posts advertised in a professional engineers magazine. These posts were for people with "After Combustion" exhaust experience. Yes, 9 jobs.

On depreciation of these cars, well the word is already out. Some factions of the trade are already offering rubbish money for certain of these cars. In my case iv'e been lumbered with this car as it has depreciated 50% in two years / 20,000mls, and i simply can't afford to exchange it. Well, not on today's state pension.

[scaniaman]

Part 5.

What i omitted to mention earlier was that a complaint was sent to Slough Trading Standards by the OFT. They were supposed to have contacted Citroën Uk's HQ in Slough. Come Hell or High Water it has proven impossible to obtain the results of this contact from Slough TS. They say that the reply did not come in written format. I think the whole Trading Standards set up needs to be closely looked at.---but by whom??

 

From a fairly early stage, one of my proposals for settlement with Clark's was a replacement car. Their adverts frequently claim that they have circa 14,000 cars for sale. They also operate several ****ron franchises. So why was it not possible for a firm of this size to get me another XPic 110 diesel??? ---they just couldn't be ar--d

One day their then GM called me to Perth under the rouse of swapping my car for one of theirs for a week. The idea of this was that it would give me the opportunity to see what mpg i could obtain from a similar car. One of their staff was to use my car to commute for the week and also check the fuel consumption. I thought this a positive step and like a fool journeyed to Perth. On arrival it soon became clear that no test car had been made available for me and that the meeting was just for this GM bloke "To set me straight". Dream on bryce.

After a while i thought it better to try and get whatever replacement from them i could. By then the 110bhp diesel was no longer in production and low milage models virtually like "hens teeth". I tried to contact the salesmanager but found out that he had been seconded to clark's Armadale branch. After several phone calls he eventually agreed to reply and a dialogue began. This was based on my considering a pre reg. 90bhp XPic. This model is less powerful and lacks some safety features, but hey, any port in a storm. He intimated that a "Special Deal" could be worked out.

This new initiative proved to be short lived, as he would never tell me where i could see an example of this car, or indeed talk money to exchange. What put the tin lid on things was, i contacted him and said that citroen main dealers in parts of England were offering these cars at £10,495. His reply was that if they could do that price then the Great Arnold Clark organisation should be able to match the price. He suggested that perhaps this offer may not be genuine by these English dealers. I sent him a forward email confirming that one dealer in particular was keen for me to buy from him at the advertised price. This activated the well known arnold clark customer service phenomenon---STONEWALLED AGAIN. This is further confirmation that Clark's DON'T LIKE CONTACT with anyone who knows the "Motor Trade".

 

 

In the summer of 2010, i caught up with this salesmanager?? again, this time he was working at the Stirling branch.

It was eventually agreed (like pulling teeth) that i should have a 92bhp XPic for a weeks trial--a managers car. I went to Stirling and was given a scruffy 9 plate car, but no way was i leaving my car witrh them.

During the following week, i used the car on a trip to Pitlochry and home via Moulin Moor. Then a days shopping in Dundee (6 stops in town).etc etc. The fuel returns from this car were only 2mpg under the VCA figures--impressed or what!! During the organising of this test car, the salesman said that he would have to get his boss to prepair a deal to exchange cars and his boss said he wanted to speak with me at some time as my custom was important to them. ABSOLUTE BOLLOCKS. Try as i may, i could never get this "Boss" on the phone. But here's the set up believe it or not.

My guy is now GM at Stirling, yet he has to refer to his boss on a simple deal?????????

It transpires the "Boss" is clark's citroen franchise manager, who is located at-- Armadale. Eventually, a phone call one afternoon from the GM, gave me various options to agree settlement with clark's. Most of these options were so futile and insipid not to warrant mention here, but the exchange deal had been worked out that they wanted me to give them £4000+ my car in exchange for their now obsolete model. I refused needless to say, because this deal could have been obtained anywhere and by anyone, there was absolutely nothing special about it. I had offered £2500.

In the spring of 2010 when the £10,495 prices were about, my car would have retailed at around the £8500 mark, so i thought that i had still allowed them a margin on my car albeit not so LARGE as their normal margin. I eventually increased my offer to £3000 but have heard nothing from them since. They were trying to flog these obselete 90bhp things at way over £11000, and their Aberdeen branch advertised them at over £12,000. 8 or 9 months on, and they are still trying to flog these things at the same price (according to their website) and expecting some mug to pay £9000+ for the petrol version.

Well, thats my sad and sorry story to date. A newspaper suggested to clark's people that they might contact me with a view to resolving our differences, but i told the editor it would be Blue Snow that day.

It is blatantly obvious that as soon as Arnold Clark gets your money, they couldn't care less about the customer--ie the people who pay their wages. But as auld granny used to say "It's a lang road that has nae turnin".

It is very sad to see one of Scotland's largest car retailers run on this ethos, and by the calibre of people who wear the "Management" badge.

Part 6 ??????????????????

Edited January 15, 2011 by scaniaman
dippit

[MARTIN3030]

Trading Standards Offices and Consumer Direct along with CAB are all organisations tasked with reporting to the OFT-who in turn can give findings to the FSA.

There are many people working in these organisations who are there because they wanted to make a difference,but as with a chain,if there are weak links then the chain loses strength.

Maybe it needs a class action to sort this out.

I think in the majority of cases the money involved exceeds small claims of the 5k ceiling,so the costs exposures for individuals to take them on are a worry.

I am not convinced that behind the scenes there has not been issues sorted but maybe with conf clauses attatched in settlement-and of course no liability admitted.

These days we are seeing more and more people who are not afraid to take on the big boys.

Arnold Clark are not above reproach-it just needs a few more to spell this out to them by taking pro-active action,instead of spending lots of time and effort discussing it.

[scaniaman]

That's me told!!!!!

I could write volumes on the TS, whom are self policing????

It beggars belief that TS will not act on "Civil" matters, but only on "Criminal" matters ----so what are the police for?

The OFT will not act against any councils TS department, so who can sort them out??

The whole area of consumer complaints reeks of "Jobs for the boys" (or girls)

[heliosuk]

Does anybody know if the freedom of information act will allow Scania to get hold of all the job cards associated with the time his car has been into Arnold Larks? I'd like to have a look at the resultsof the tests they supposedly carried out.

 

There is a lot more to this case than meets the eye and invariably a with holding of information requested not just from AC but Citroen and the VCA.

[scaniaman]

I shall PM you on this matter Heliosuk.

[MARTIN3030]

Does anybody know if the freedom of information act will allow Scania to get hold of all the job cards associated with the time his car has been into Arnold Larks? I'd like to have a look at the resultsof the tests they supposedly carried out.

 

There is a lot more to this case than meets the eye and invariably a with holding of information requested not just from AC but Citroen and the VCA.

 

Good point.

Theres nothing to lose by trying.

[scaniaman]

Martin, you will see by my posts that when this info was requested that clark's stonewalled the request.

What i am about to try, is to get my lawyer to write Citroën UK, and ask "When" the car was examined by them and where are the test results?

What is getting to me right now, is the fact that the car is still under warranty, yet i can do nothing to get Citroen to carry out a full range of tests---there appears no way of forcing this issue.

People from this site and elsewhere, have given me a comprehensive list of tests required, which have been conveyed to citroen, but they refuse to act. As Heliosuk once posted, if they carry out these tests then the matter can be laid to rest once and for all. The results will either throw up a defect/s or i shall just have to put up with the car as is. The last tank of fuel returned exactly 44mpg, although the severe weather may have had some effect on this. It is still miles from what my first Picasso returned. On the Picasso Owners website there is another chap who owned two 2 litre diesel Picasso's from new. The first apparently gave excellent returns, whilst the second consumed about 10% more fuel. According to him, Citroen never got to the bottom of the fault---so what does this tell you?

Edited January 16, 2011 by scaniaman
canny spell. lol

[Crapstone]

In Pt 1 you say it was Motability but then bought your own. In Pt 2 You said you were helped by a Motability salesman. Are you still getting any aid from them? Why couldn't you accept their terms?

 

To be totally honest you won't win. 3 years on and no 'major' issues that you couldn't have found out in a very short period of time before accepting the car. If your claims were 100% then you would have ceased to use it but by still driving it you have accepted it warts and all and have had benefit from it. T.S. will look at the contract and agreements but they won't get involved as a referee in a case of fuel consumption on a 3 year old car.

 

Do you have any legal protection? Such as on car or home insurance? It might be worth calling them but I think you aren't going to get the answer you want.

[Crapstone]

PS. Don't think I'm having a go at you. I had similar problems with a brand new car and went down all avenues. In future I'll vote with my feet and never touch another Mazda or their dealers!

[scaniaman]

Reply to post 16. Crapstone. I was put on to a Motability salesman because i was returning a Motability car, and presume that he would know the return proceedures. I could not accept Motability's figures for a replacement as the advance payment had risen by almost 100%, for cars that were offered to all at discounted rates. (End of Production immenent)

If you had read all my posts, you would see that i complained about this car within weeks of purchase. The car will be three years from date of first registration shortly, but was not put on the road until 1/11/2008. The handbook states, and rightly so, that the engine would not reach full potential until after 3000miles use, therefore there was little point of complaining before that time. This "Bedding in " time is common to most diesels.

As the car is still under warranty, i don't see why i should pay a diesel specialist to examine and detect the fuelling problem, just because of inadequacies in the Arnold Clark organisation and Citroën's computer.

A woman in Clark's HQ wrote that Citroën UK had also tested the car, but stonewalls me when asked when and where these tests were carried out----because i sure as hell don't know. One can only assume that she refers to a computer link between Clark's and Citroen, which again cannot conduct the correct tests required. Most of these large companies think that manufacturers diagnostic computers are foolproof, but as we in the repair/ service side of the business know, this is MOST DEFINATELY NOT THE CASE.

[MARTIN3030]

Scaniaman,there was a case in the Scottish Courts where the Judge tended to favour that even out of time on SOGA,that the claimant should have recourse because faults were reported early on -hence the dealer was aware.

Its quite an interesting case.

 

http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/opinions/2010CSOH14.html

[Crapstone]

The case that Martin has defined will be useful. You can't expect to reject the car and an exchange is not going to be practical IMHO. That leaves you the court route as you were first advised to do.

 

I did read your posts but weeks may as well be years when it comes to inspection and accepting goods. A warranty is only an additon to your rights which you can still enforce regardless of that.

 

 

With the problems you've had it's worth paying the price for a reputable specialist to look at the engine and act as an expert witness. If you are in the business you would know that as they aren't going to do you any favours that disclose anything untoward. The variables must depend on the weight, speed, fuel ..too many to mention but I've yet to find a car that does what it says in the manual. As an example my OH has just gained a Chrysler Grand Voyager on hire, and can't get it anywhere near what the book states. It's lucky to get 22 mpg, it's a diesel and 10 plated. 10% is only a small variant and their ideal will probably have been done on a rolling road without the weight or driver to err.

 

The case Martin highlighted could have been serious..but a case of fuel consumption alone on 10%?

A new engine? Maybe, but that will have effect on the depreciation so you still would have to seek the losses.

Edited February 8, 2011 by Crapstone

[MARTIN3030]

Yes I have seen some really bad examples personally in the last 5 years.Although I dont work in the trade now,I still help my brother out when he needs to go away.

My eyes have been opened a few times during these stand ins.

18 months ago there was an Audi in with FS engine.

It was regular customer Audi owner all his life.

Car had just died whilst driving.

After doing diagnostics we stripped it down-head off.

Turns out that plastic flaps covering valves had broken up and caused valve jam.

When we looked to order new ones we saw that the new part had been superceded.

I know that there are generally 2 reasons that parts are superceded.

1.Either they are modded slightly to fit a wider model range.

2.A problem has been discovered with the original.

 

This guy had paid almost 30 grand for a car that had spent more time in the garage than out.

 

Audi did not want to know,neither did the dealers.

There is a contention that the big boys are untouchable-people look on the internet and seldom see anyone taking them on.

My Cag experience put me in good stead.

I did him a couple of letters which hasd not much response.

The third one gave them 7 days to sort out a refund of the job or else it was going to Court.

We had proof that they were aware of the problems by modifying the offending parts-of course they denied this.

To cut a long storty short they coughed.

I think more people should take them head on.

[scaniaman]

Thanks for your post 19 Martin. I shall run this past my advisors before taking action. This is most encouraging information, as it proves get again that these diagnostic checks are not full proof.

[heliosuk]

Scania,

 

Sometime ago possibly in another thread, you mentioned that you had posted some sort of advert in the car window about our friends AC. Has there been any sort of response or reaction to this? Would be interested to know if this is a succesful form of protest against a private company.

[scaniaman]

Hi Heliosuk, it's rather coincidental that you should ask the question tonight. As the weeks tick by, there are always people who stop me and ask why my car is "Decorated" with the yellow shark emblems.

However, this week has been exceptional. On Monday, whilst tidying up my squat, a lorry driver stopped and asked what these signs were all about. I gave a brief resume of my dreadful experience with Arnold Clark. He also had a similar experience with them, and said he would never buy from them again. On Thursday, whilst washing the Gas Guzzler, a "white van man" blew his horn and stopped to enquire about the signs. His story was appalling. After many years of dealing with Cordners in Aberdeen, they were taken over by Clark's. Initally, the Cordners staff were retained and he had good dealings with Clark's. Eventually, this excellent relationship deteriorated into what we are all subjected to. The final straw, as in my case, was he had bought a car from them and the fuel consumption was dire. After many complaints, they still refused to do anything about it. Sound familiar????

On Friday night, when i came out of the supermarket, there was a young man taking photographs of the rear and sides of my car, on his phone. I shouted to him and asked what the H--- he was doing. He came back and a small crowd had gathered. I gave my story, and it transpired that several of the gathered had had bad experiences with this firm, and won't deal with them in the future. I told the young man to post his photos on this site.

Now some stats. During the first month of my "Signing" the car, there were 38 direct contacts, plus several cars blowing their horns or giving the thumbs down sign as they passed.

I lost count when these contacts were around 186 or so, many months ago.

Now, the question begs. Is Clark's expanding by natural progression, or do they have to expand into other areas, because of their reputation in the central belt. Last year they took over two places in the Cumbria area, and what may be of interest to you is that they recently took over a Skoda garage. Perhaps they have an insight into the statistics on how many people they can P--- OFF, and still retain sales at the desired level. I mean, just how gullable is the car buying public??? Or are buyers taken in by adverts wherebye they think they are getting a cheap car from Clark?? In my experience their trade in value is very poor, and they admit to using the Black book as opposed to Flasses Fairytales.

 

There is however a MOST DISTURBING SITUATION at present. Given the dozens of unhappy customers on this site, coupled with the hundreds on other sites, and the many people i have spoken with, why are none of the "Authorities" doing anything about Clark?? If Clark's are doing nothing wrong, then why so many complaints???

IMHO, TS will crucify any small trader who falls by the wayside, in any trade. But i think they are just plain scared to tackle the big boys. Their excuse is likely to be resources!!

Is my protest a success?? Well, perhaps only statistics can be twisted to say yea or nae. I am happy with the response so far, and it's comming into the time of year when i tour around a fair bit. Maybe spend a day in Glasgow--must check out these Lexus things.

Before i was in a position to post my full story, i was approached and asked if i would participate in a small rally, driving round AC branches and prominent places. I had to decline at that time, but it does reveal that feelings are running high by far more than me. There was a recent newspaper photo of a classic Daimler car, owned by royalty at one time, and now in Clark's hands. The text said that "Sir Arnold" was passionate about cars. These sites would suggest that this mans organisation is only passionate about money.