HSBC NONSENSE - Final Demand and 'Set Off' rule...? Please help.

[Guest jsa12]

wennabee,just an update.metropolitan have signed for one posted,a fortnight after posting a signature has appeared but in coventry not birmingham?.however one letter has not been signed for posted in november.

 

as mentioned by johnnymitch above you need to stick your guns with these people and not let them bully you into anything,i made a lot of mistakes earlier with them,they want it all their own way and to dominate their way through at the end persons' detriment.all the best.

[wennabee]

Hi Jsa - yes, I noticed that the first letter from Metropolitan was from Birmingham and the second from Coventry. Also I've had two letters from HSBC themselves today, one from Birmingham the other Sheffield.... Who knows what happens where?

 

So, first letter today was concerning my son's maintenance which I tried to assert my right of appropriation over and get paid back. They said that because I did not claim appropriation in advance of them taking it, it is too late. But in all honesty, why would I have felt the need to do that? I had absolutely no idea that they were going to take it. That is a ridiculous argument as far as I'm concerned.

The interesting part though is that I told them they were in breach of their terms and conditions where they state that when they take money as their right of set off they will inform you, and they never did contact me about it. In the letter back they admit that they didn't write to inform me and offer their apologies.

I don't think an apology is good enough under these circumstances and since they aren't prepared to play fairly by me and return my money, I am not prepared to just let this lie.

Do you think it is worth pursuing this? I certainly do. I am livid at the way i have been treated by these crooks.

 

The second letter is regarding my complaint that they closed my savings account which had always been kept in good order, with no notice and without contacting me afterwards. When I asked, they said it was due to a bad debt, despite that account never having been affected.

The letter just says that they are allowed to withdraw my facilities at any time. Fair enough, but surely it is common courtesy to inform me?

 

They then waffle on about a high quality of customer service being their top prioroty which is absolute nonsense and say that they hope I will allow them the opportunity to restore my faith in them in the future.... This bloke is having a giraffe if he thinks I'm ever going to let them anywhere near me or my money ever again!!!

 

So, to sum up, they wrote back, pretty much dissmissed my concerns as policy, made one meagre apology for the one thing they couldn't squirm out of and then had the cheek to assume I would continue banking with them.

 

NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

 

He has provided the contact details of the next link up in the chain for complaints, so I guess that's my next step. I would also like to complain to the OFT about them breaching their T&Cs and the Banking Ombudsman, but I assume I have to exhaust all of HSBC's resources before the Ombudsman will get involved.

 

Any suggestions or comments, as always, gratefully received.

 

Wennabee x

 

PS Not heard a word back from metropolitan yet...

[johnnymitch]

Hi Jsa - yes, I noticed that the first letter from Metropolitan was from Birmingham and the second from Coventry. Also I've had two letters from HSBC themselves today, one from Birmingham the other Sheffield.... Who knows what happens where?

 

So, first letter today was concerning my son's maintenance which I tried to assert my right of appropriation over and get paid back. They said that because I did not claim appropriation in advance of them taking it, it is too late. But in all honesty, why would I have felt the need to do that? I had absolutely no idea that they were going to take it. That is a ridiculous argument as far as I'm concerned.

The interesting part though is that I told them they were in breach of their terms and conditions where they state that when they take money as their right of set off they will inform you, and they never did contact me about it. In the letter back they admit that they didn't write to inform me and offer their apologies.

I don't think an apology is good enough under these circumstances and since they aren't prepared to play fairly by me and return my money, I am not prepared to just let this lie.

Do you think it is worth pursuing this? I certainly do. I am livid at the way i have been treated by these crooks.

 

Hi Wennabee ... yes , I'd say definitely worth pursuing...their failure to stick to the rules (and now you've got their admission in writing ! ) cost you money , which an apology is no substitute for .......... they need to give it back ....

 

The second letter is regarding my complaint that they closed my savings account which had always been kept in good order, with no notice and without contacting me afterwards. When I asked, they said it was due to a bad debt, despite that account never having been affected.

The letter just says that they are allowed to withdraw my facilities at any time. Fair enough, but surely it is common courtesy to inform me?

 

Another case of them riding roughshod over the rules ...

 

They then waffle on about a high quality of customer service being their top prioroty which is absolute nonsense and say that they hope I will allow them the opportunity to restore my faith in them in the future.... This bloke is having a giraffe if he thinks I'm ever going to let them anywhere near me or my money ever again!!!

Good for you ! That parachute account is going to pay off handsomely .... they can't nick any more from you !

So, to sum up, they wrote back, pretty much dissmissed my concerns as policy, made one meagre apology for the one thing they couldn't squirm out of and then had the cheek to assume I would continue banking with them.

 

NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

 

He has provided the contact details of the next link up in the chain for complaints, so I guess that's my next step. I would also like to complain to the OFT about them breaching their T&Cs and the Banking Ombudsman, but I assume I have to exhaust all of HSBC's resources before the Ombudsman will get involved.

 

By all means exhaust all their Complaints procedure first , as you say you need to prove to the Ombudsman that you have .... but make clear in your letters to HSBC (or whoever) that the Ombudsman is your next stap if they do not comply with your requests for re-imbursement .......

As I said before , it may take a while , but hang in and you'll get there .... their objective is to try to put you off at every stage .... don't let 'em off with it !

 

Any suggestions or comments, as always, gratefully received.

 

Wennabee x

 

PS Not heard a word back from metropolitan yet...

 

They're probably keeping their heads down .... they'll know what's going on ... but if you get any more aggro from them .. tell them it's between you and HSBC ,..... and the Ombudsman ... unless they want to mix it with FOS too ... (costs the banks about £400 a time I believe ..... ) even if they're in the right ... which they're not ...

 

[wennabee]

Hello Again Johnnymitch

Have today sent this letter to the guy who wrote back to me in the first letter:

 

Mr T Yates

Service Quality Team

HSBC Bank PLC

Arlington Business Centre

Milshaw Park Lane

Leeds

LS11 0PP

 

 

7th January 2011

 

 

Reference:

 

 

Dear Mr Yates

 

Thank you for your letter dated 5th January in which you state that in order to exercise my right of appropriation over funds in my account, I am expected to advise the bank prior to the funds being deposited.

 

I do not accept this as a valid excuse for not returning my son’s maintenance money. It is not reasonable to expect customers to inform you that money in their accounts is essential and therefore not yours for the taking, however you dress it up. I had no idea that this was likely to happen, despite it being part of my Terms and Conditions, and as such would have had no reason to circumvent this practise by informing you of my right of appropriation over my son’s money in advance of it being paid in.

 

You then say that in future I need to contact the bank five working days before funds go in, so please consider this adequate notice. Any deposits made from this day forwards, into my account ******** are essential to mine and my son’s basic living costs and I hereby assert my right of appropriation over them in their entirety.

 

I am not satisfied with this excuse and request once again that you return the funds that were neither yours nor mine to be taken.

 

In your letter you accept that you were in breach of your terms and conditions. Whilst your apology is duly noted, it is too little much too late. By not informing me of your actions regarding your right to set-off and my funds, and in doing so not keeping to your agreed terms and conditions, you are failing to honour commitments made in a code of conduct, which is in itself an Unfair Commercial Practice breaching the Consumer Protection against Unfair Trading Regulations (CPUTR 2008) Section 2, Pg 7.11. Under the circumstances I am well within my rights to report this to the Office of Fair Trading and the Banking Ombudsman Service.

Finally you suggest that since my account has been passed to Metropolitan I should contact them on the premium rate telephone number provided. I have written to Metropolitan on three separate occasions and each time my correspondence has been ignored, despite being sent recorded delivery. Having had a brief telephone discussion on 31st December with one of their representatives who was rude, aggressive and entirely unprofessional, I am only prepared to deal with this by letter.

Since Metropolitan Collections is in fact merely an internal collections department within HSBC itself, they are bound by the same terms and conditions. Section Two, Paragraph 42.1 clearly states ‘.....we will try to use your preferred contact method wherever possible...’

In refusing to accept my correspondence, they are in breach of these terms and conditions and are also failing to honour commitments made in a code of conduct, as mentioned above.

Since HSBC claims that a high provision of customer service to its customers is a key priority for the bank, it surprises me that you would wish to be affiliated with such unscrupulous and aggressive tactics.

I look forward to hearing from you again before deciding whether or not to escalate my concerns to your senior management team.

Yours Sincerely

Edited January 8, 2011 by wennabee

[wennabee]

Obviously now everything goes into the parachute account, but I left the HSBC one open in the end because if I closed it I would have no remaining accounts with them and didn't want to give them any silly excuses for why they couldn't re-credit the funds to me.

I'll let you know what happens next. X

[johnnymitch]

Hee Hee ! That's told 'em in no uncertain terms wennabee .... you've been doing your homework in the CPUTR s ... and it's good that you've covered your back by leaving that account open for refunds .....although ,once you've got the refund I'd recommend getting it out of there ASAP ...

[Guest jsa12]

hi wennabee,there is an account number in the letter it might be best remove it.

 

it certainly is worth pursing,this looks appalling publicity for a major bank and highlights very good reasons for just getting away from them.looks a good letter.

[johnnymitch]

Thanks JSA 12 .... sorry wennabee I meant to include that in my last but was in full flow as usual and forgot LOL !

 

If you think this is shocking for a bank JSA have a look on the thread on here reference Managed Loans .... it will open your eyes to the sort of (mal) practices these people are capable of ........ it's a big thread so I'd recommend starting from the last and working back ............. until you've had enough.. LOL !

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/139521-managed-loan.html

[wennabee]

OOOPS!!

Cheers guys, ac number removed!

It is, as you say, appalling publicity but not sure I'm brave enough to drag Anne Robinson in just yet. Sorely bloody tempted tho!

[rdm2006]

You Have also left your ref number in there................

 

TBH - I would have asked how I was supposed to inform them about appropriation, when I didn't know they were taking it, as they failed to advise me (despite promises to do so being in their code of conduct).......

Edited January 8, 2011 by rdm2006

[wennabee]

Hi Rdm

That's what this paragraph was about.

 

'I had no idea that this was likely to happen, despite it being part of my Terms and Conditions, and as such would have had no reason to circumvent this practise by informing you of my right of appropriation over my son’s money in advance of it being paid in.'

 

This rule of set-off is a load of BS - I'd never heard of it until it happened.

[Guest jsa12]

its very hard to believe that this is allowed to happen,where is the oft now?customers should have their money protected as this behavior could leave someone destitute.you have no rights in their eyes only what they see as themselves being right.you really are better off away from this bank.

 

its all a total disgrace,gordon brown was praising this bank arrogantly announcing "the hsbc is a big bank the northern rock is only a little bank"

 

totally unfair,totally unregulated = total abuse.

[dx100uk]

have read here:

 

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/banking/setting-off

 

dx

[wennabee]

Wow! This is a turn up for the books. Had a letter from metropolitan today apologising, acknowledging my letters, agreeing to conduct this matter by post and accepting my offer of repayment. looks like you have to quote CPUTR at them to be taken seriously. I'm not sure I have any other issue with them now, despite a burning desire to haul them over the coals!!

 

As for HSBC, I still fully intend to take my complaints about them not informing me of their actions after exercising their right to set-off despite their T&C, taking maintenance money AND closing my account without notice to the highest level.

[rdm2006]

Hi Rdm

That's what this paragraph was about.

 

'I had no idea that this was likely to happen, despite it being part of my Terms and Conditions, and as such would have had no reason to circumvent this practise by informing you of my right of appropriation over my son’s money in advance of it being paid in.'

 

This rule of set-off is a load of BS - I'd never heard of it until it happened.

 

 

No Offence - but remember these are HSBC dimwits - you have to spell it out for them word for word.

 

i.e. had you told me you were about to do this, I would have been able to advise you of my right of appropriation, therefore, your error is the cause of this problem and it is your duty to put me back into a position I would have been in had the error not occurred.

[Guest jsa12]

metropolitan have moved to coventry without telling anyone hence the letters' going into disarray,somewhere they went a long time ago.