Reliable Collections / Simply Be / Fashion World - Can't Sleep For Worry!

[Silverbell1966]

So happy to have found this site. I'm hoping you will be able to help me! I'm desperate!!!!

 

I have a problem regarding Simply Be & Fashion World. Basically, they are chasing for monies (around £2,300 now with all their charges, admin fees and interest!) and are sending through statements/letters via Reliable Collections. I have read the various threads on here about asking for a copy of a signed credit agreeement between us and am prepared to do that as I don't recall signing anything at the time of opening the account etc. (which was a few years ago now). However, around a year ago I wrote to them asking for reduced payments of £12.50 for each account and obviously signed the letters at that time. By writing/signing these letters, will I have definitely made myself liable for this money? Would it disregard whether or not I signed an original credit agreement?

 

I stuck to the reduced payments until around 4 months ago. Basically things came to a head whereby I had debts all around me and finally crumbled under the pressure. I have no assets and no way of paying my debts, so I recently applied and was approved for an IVA. Great news, except this debt wasnt part of the agreement! I was so busy trying to sort the companies I owed a lot more too, I didn't think to include these, particularly as I have in between time moved so wasn't receiving their letters reminding me.

 

I work full time, but don't have the means to pay this debt. I thought I'd sorted myself with the IVA and had just started to relax a little, but now this has cropped up and smacked me in the face so I'm back to not sleeping and worrying!

 

So, have I shot myself in the foot....??? I really would appreciate any guidance you could give me. Thank you xx

[maroondevo52]

Hello and Welcome,

 

I'll move this thread to the appropriate Forum.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Good afternoon.

 

By writing/signing these letters, will I have definitely made myself liable for this money? Would it disregard whether or not I signed an original credit agreement?

No, not at all, though in future it would be better you left them blank. Others will help you with the rest of your concerns but I would at this point request a copy of your credit agreement - which you are legally entitled to do, so don't worry about it impacting in some way on any dealings with them, in fact it can make your position stronger depending upon what they produce or reply with - and send it by recorded delivery, enclosing the standard £1 fee postal order, DON'T SIGN, leave blank, print name.

 

Give them the 12+2 days to reply, ignore any calls, letters until they supply you with what you requested. Others will have more advice I am sure.

 

Oh, I forgot to mention but send this to Reliable Collections.

[Silverbell1966]

I'm so grateful for your response- thank you!

I have prepared a letter to Reliable Collections requesting sight of the credit agreement but don't have their address to hand (I'm at work and all my paperwork is at home). You wouldn't happen to know what it is would you? That way I can get it sent off tonight as I'm picking up a postal order on my way home too.

 

Definitely won't be signing any other letters, but will merely type my name.

 

So what happens if I don't receive a response from them within the 14 days?

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Before you do, are you sending the template letter for requesting a CCA found on here?

 

You wouldn't happen to know what it is would you?

 

No. But googling may provide you with one, there are numerous threads on here about Reliable Collections for example.

 

Just also wondering how many addresses do Reliable Collections have as they appear to have several listed in Manchester.

 

After the time limit has elasped you can put the account into dispute using the template letter found on this forum. Until then, and until they reply, don't communicate with them at all. Ignoring any and all correspondence from them.

Edited September 10, 2010 by Cartaphilus

[harrassed senior]

Hi, and welcome, no more sleepless nights, they really are not worth the worry.

 

I note what you say about getting your letter in the post tonight, but have you got your reference numbers on you?

 

Make sure that the template CCA request you are going to use contains the following:

 

If you intend to send a reconstituted copy of the CCA you must declare the reason why it has been reconstituted and if the original exists and in what form (microfiche) etc.

 

There is a good chance that they will not have the relevant paperwork, but whatever the outcome, remember, it is YOUR income and only you can decide what you can afford!

[Silverbell1966]

Yes, I have indeed used a template I found on here. Somebody had posted a whole array of various letters - this was Letter 'N'

 

The address I found when I googled was 23 Hunts Bank, Manchester, M3 1AX. Am thinking perhaps I should hold fire and send the letter off on Monday so I can double check what's on my paperwork at home.

 

Thank you again for taking the time to respond - I'm feeling a little better already. So are you a solicitor or something, or just someone who knows the ins and outs of things like this having been through it yourself? Have to say, I've found some of the threads fascinating to read.

[Guest Cartaphilus]

I'm feeling a little better already. So are you a solicitor or something, or just someone who knows the ins and outs of things like this having been through it yourself?

 

Um, nope. But thanks for upgrading me in life. I am just an everyday person who doesn't like it when people are treated disrepectfully, unfairly and harassed by people like a DCA. Though, I do have letters after my name, just not those ones.

[harrassed senior]

Most, but not all CAG members are just your average person with debt, who has had enough of being bullied and pushed around and lied to, and have decided to fight back. We do, of course, have some very learned members too8-)

[Guest Cartaphilus]

Yes, I suppose I am 'learned' just not 'learned' in that capacity. My mother always said I should have been a doctor ... but ... oh well. There you go.

 

PS OP I don't like bullies, nor injusticess of any kind.

[Silverbell1966]

If you intend to send a reconstituted copy of the CCA you must declare the reason why it has been reconstituted and if the original exists and in what form (microfiche) etc.

 

 

So I should include this sentence in my letter..... yes? What exactly does it mean?

[Silverbell1966]

This is how my letter looks...... hopefully it's saying what it should be saying! :-S

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide. If you intend to send a reconstituted copy of the CCA you must declare the reason why it has been reconstituted and if the original exists and in what form (microfiche) etc.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

[silverfox1961]

Hi

Under certain regulations (won't bother you with them) they can send you a copy of what your agreement "might" have looked like in place of an actual copy agreement

By including that statement puts them on the spot as you are asking them if they do have a copy of the actual agreement. Their response could be interesting

[Silverbell1966]

I'm definitely going to wait until Monday before sending off...... want to make sure I've put what I should have put! It will also give time to read any other posts on here which may be useful/ beneficial to my case.

 

I don't have internet connnection at home so won't be able to repond again now until Monday. Dont want you to think I am being rude! ;-)

 

Thank you again to those who have responded so far. I really do appreciate your support. x

[hillards]

And beware of the trap these idiots often set - they send you two copies of the 'agreement' and ask you to sign and return one - DON'T !! That gives them a document that would bind you to the debt.

 

It may sound daft, that you would spot it a mile off - but some people have been silly enough to sign and send a copy back... Worth the warning.

 

(Un)Reliable will try to make out they can do lots of nasty things - they MAY take further action, they COULD instruct solicitors - but consider such words in another sense when you read then - they MAY wet their pants, they COULD shoot themselves, makes as much sense. Those two words are repeated in many letters sent out by DCA's, in effect, they MAY continue to send such letters and you COULD carry on ignoring them...

 

Without an agreement they can't have a day in court, if you are sure you never signed one then your CCA request will only bring back their version of what you might sign, so don't...

 

Hours of fun to be had reading other threads about this mob.

[Silverbell1966]

LOL @ Hillards - "they may wet their pants" did make me smile!

 

OK well, the letter got sent yesterday - recorded delivery, unsigned (just my name typed at the bottom), complete with postal order for £1. Now just gotta to wait....

 

So, what date will it be that I would need to have heard from them by? And what happens if I don't hear anything, or if they come back and say they don't have to provide a copy?

[Silverbell1966]

Out of interest.... where would I stand if my first order was made via their website online? It was so long ago now, I can't be sure how the hell I placed the order. Wish i could remember!

 

I'm thinking that I would be tied in then because they have a tick the box terms and conditions bit don't they?

[Silverbell1966]

Out of interest.... where would I stand if my first order was made via their website online? It was so long ago now, I can't be sure how the hell I placed the order. Wish i could remember!

 

I'm thinking that I would be tied in then because they have a tick the box terms and conditions bit don't they?

[Silverbell1966]

Out of interest.... where would I stand if my first order was made via their website online? It was so long ago now, I can't be sure how the hell I placed the order. Wish i could remember!

 

I'm thinking that I would be tied in then because they have a tick the box terms and conditions bit don't they?

[Guest Cartaphilus]

I'm thinking that I would be tied in then because they have a tick the box terms and conditions bit don't they?

 

For your own peace of mind, I really don't think there is any point in second guessing what may or may not have happened.

 

Wait until they provide you with something, then take things from there. Seems sensible to me.

[Silverbell1966]

For your own peace of mind, I really don't think there is any point in second guessing what may or may not have happened. QUOTE]

 

Thanks Cartaphilus (the person with letters after their name!! I know, I'm torturing myself somewhat, but I just want to know how much they have on me (if anything!). The waiting for a response is awful!! Arrrgggghhhhhh!

[hillards]

... where would I stand if my first order was made via their website online?

 

I'm thinking that I would be tied in then because they have a tick the box terms and conditions bit don't they?

How long ago was it that you placed that order, not to the exact date, but how many years?

 

There is something about it, if you ticked a box in agreement then that would apply, but only if that was done after a certain date from what I remember. I've tried doing a search for further info on that, but there are so many threads about (un)reliable...

 

See what they send back first.

 

The CAG templates library has been unavailable for a while, it seems to be working again now (for registered members only) - hours of fun reading about the site and so on. The CCA letter is here, just to give an example.

Edited September 18, 2010 by hillards
library link was not working.

[hillards]

After a bit more searching The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Electronic Communications) Order 2004 (“the Order”)

 

This outlines the way that an electronic signature may be obtained as part of an agreement, and says "The Order will come into force on 31st December 2004.". I'm sure I've seen something else that went against this articular interpretation as it was originally said that an IP address could be recorded as proof of an agreement having been made, but many people have a dynamic (shared) IP address, and this can change each time they log in, so this was not acceptable...?

 

Sorry, I have been looking, but cannot find the actual item I wanted to which gave a date - after which an electronic/on-line agreement is made by simply ticking a box on a web application. All this does is to verify that nothing like that existed before December 2004.

[maroondevo52]

Hi, hillards.

 

I sure it's after the 31st December 2004.

 

They claim that they keep a record of the IP address and that can be tracted back to the debtor.

If you change your ISP or even your modem/router, you get a new IP address - so, so much for that.

ISP's say they don't keep records at all as the volume of data would be overwhelming.

 

So how can a creditor prove that I am an online debtor ?

 

Got me beat !!!

Edited September 18, 2010 by maroondevo52

[Bookworm]

Odds are that Reliable are not actually collecting on behalf of the catalogue anyway, the catalogue would have flogged off your account as soon as you defaulted, but you can't be 100% certain.

 

Either way, my experience of every single catalogue I have dealt with on here and elsewhere is that they do not have a valid credit agreement, ever.

 

The reason is on how they work:

 

You order goods, and they open a credit account for you in order for you to be able to order, up to a certain limit.

BUT the goods you order are always on approval for x amount of days.

If it is one item, one set of credit, ordered online, then they might have a case. although it could be argued that it is in fact an application for credit, not an actual agreement anyway, since they can still refuse your order at that point (or at any point in the future for that matter).

 

However, the moment you order more stuff, send back part of the order, exchange , then the terms of the agreement change and that means the original agreement is no longer valid, since it was only relating to the original order. What they would have to do is send you a new credit agreement for you to sign and return EVERY TIME you place an order and vary it in any form or shape. If you phone them to order, they won't have an agreement.

 

In other words, the whole catalogue way of doing business relies heavily, if not solely, on people's honesty and lack of knowledge of the rules. In reality, and I do NOT condone this!!!, someone could order from them over and over again, and then stop paying altogether and they would be highly unlikely to have any lawful recourse, which is why they tend to flog the debt wholesale to a DCA and just write off the debt against tax in their books.

 

I was a VIP customer of 2 catalogue myself, they treated me like dirt, made mistakes, tried to charge me for these mistakes, refused to correct their mistakes, eventually I said "sod you, 2 can play silly buggers", and I CCA'd both of them, never paid them another penny. I got the adding £12 every time, I got the threats, I got the debt collectors, I haven't replied to anyone of them, come to think of it, I haven't had any threatogram for a bit either, and as far asI am concerned, until a judge tells me I must pay them, it ain't going to happen. At one point, I was paying between £400 and £600 between the 2 catalogues, now they get nothing, I am a lot better off than i ever was, and all down to their own greed and incompetence. Some people might call it immoral, I call it poetic justice.

 

One thing is certain, absolutely no point in losing sleep over it, honey, they just ain't worth it.