Rockwell Help

[starbug32]

I was actually looking for rockwells phone number so i could make an over the phone agreed monthly payment to a debt which has been passed to them when i came across this site and started to read though other posts which started to make me think that i may have made a mistake to agree to pay these people anything.

 

The current situation is as follows...

 

I had a £17k loan with Alliance and Leicester which was taken out roughly 7 to 8 years ago. Around 3 years ago I was made redundant and was unable to keep up with payments. I then made an aggrement with alliance and leicester to pay £50 a month which in general i kept up with. A couple of months ago I called Santander(formally alliance and leicester) as I had missed a payment and I was told that the debt had now been passed on to an external debt collector and I would be contacted by them. I was contacted by Rockwell stating I owed them £9000 and I was to call them to make arrangements to pay them or they would take me to court. So I contacted them and arranged with them to again make payments of £50 a month which I have been paying over the last few months.

 

My question is have I screwed myself by agreeing to deal with these people or do I have to any way of questioning this debt.

 

I do not have the origonal letter demanding the money that is why I was looking online for thier phone number and came across this site.

 

I noticed a lot of people suggesting writting to them to request a the CCA agreement. Is this my best course of action?

 

Any help would be most appeciated.

 

Thanks

[Stigman]

Hi Starbug32,

First of all stop talking to these parasite's on the telephone, if they do call jusst tell them to put everything in writing and end the call and refuse all security questions.

Send Rockwell a CCA request (template letter in the template section) to see if they have the right to collect.

Send the CCA rquest by recorded delivery, NEVER sign your name, just print.

Start keeping a paper-trail including envolopes received.

Wait the 12 + 2 working days (the +2 days are to allow for postage), after that no what Rockwell say you can legally put the account into dispute and with-hold any payment.

When or if you recieve anything back, post up here and let others have a look on it's enforceablity, remember to remove your name, address, barcodes and reference numbers and the full amount.

Don't worry about the court threat, court is a long way off and just to intimidate you into paying and/or setting up a repayment programme which you cannot afford.

Best Wishes

Stigman

[harrassed senior]

A few suggestions:

 

Do not talk to them on the telephone - in writing only.

 

Send a CCA Request as below:

 

Send them a CCA request to see if they are entitled to collect this debt & if it's enforcable. If they fail to provide it within 12+2 days or the CCA is unenforcable you can legally withold any payment until they do. Send it recorded delivery enclosing a £1 postal order. When you get a reply, scan it & remove any identifying details and post it back here where we can have a look at it. We'll advise you from there;

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:- Account No: XXXXXXXX/Your Reference Number: XXXXXXX

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

If you intend to send a reconstituted copy of the CCA you must declare the reason why it has been reconstituted and if the original exists and in what form (microfiche) etc

 

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

(Optional)

You should also note that I will only discuss this matter in writing and should it be your intention to arrange a “doorstep call”, please be advised that under OFT rules, you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you or any of your associates.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so, then you will be liable to damages for a tort of trespass and action will be taken, including but not limited to, police attendance. (Optional)

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully **Edit to suit**

Print name do not sign

[starbug32]

Thanks for the reply. I have a payment due today which I will not contact them to pay. I will also send the letter as suggested and wait to hear back from them. If they call me which they will do to chase the missing payment I will ask them contact me through the post for all future correspondence.

[harrassed senior]

You could add this to the above letter:

 

I note you have asked me to contact you by phone however I must insist that all discussions of a financial nature take place in writing only! this will protect the rights of both parties. This request is covered in Section 144 of the new Lending Code which your bank is signed up to follow, I quote:-

 

 

 

144.

Where a customer requests that the subscriber deals with them in writing or e-mail (providing that facility is available) rather than by telephone, they should do so as long as the customer remains co-operative and in regular dialogue

 

 

I now require you to confirm that you will abide by this code of practice or state the reasons why not, this statement will be used in any future legal action.

[starbug32]

Thanks for the further input. I will post back here when I get my next letter back from Rockwell.

[starbug32]

Hi I sent the letter as suggested to rockwell asking for the signed CCA agreement. It has been roughly 3-4 weeks now since the letter was sent and to this date I have only recieved the following letter back from Rockwell.

 

Nothing else has been sent to me and I will have a payment due within the next few days.

 

Also after speaking to them I asked thm if the debt had been passed to them and they told me no that they were dealing with me on behalf of Santander.

Not sure if that changes anything.

 

Im assuming I should withhold any payment to them until they can provide me with a copy of the signed CCA.

[Stigman]

Hi Starbug,

Ok, Rockwell have failed to provide a CCA request in time, the account is now in-dispute and you can legally with-hold any payments.

Rockwell know full well that they have 12+2 working days to produce the documentation.

Also, once again, please stop talking to Rockwell on the telephone, they will lie, bully and intimidate you as well as making threats over the phone that they will never put into writing.

Send the following letter, once again, do not sign your name and post using a track and trace facility.

 

------------------------------------------------------------

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Date:

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. This was signed for as delivered on the **DATE**

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE** (12+2 days after you made the initial request).

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you/your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8

 

(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued'

 

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt'

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 21 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 21 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Print your name - DO NOT SIGN

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Best Wishes

Stigman

[starbug32]

I have now recieved a copy of the signed CCA agreement from Rockwell and have attached in this post.

 

 

Not to sure what to do next so any feedback would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

CCA2.pdf

[Stigman]

Hi Starbug,

Is that all you received? No terms and conditions, it does not even come close to a CCA request.

Send Rockwell the account in-dispute letter.

Rockwell are entitled to no payments from you until they comply.

Send the account in-dispute letter by recorded delivery, do not sign, print your name only.

Best Wishes

Stigman

[DonkeyB]

Oh well, now you know why this account has been dumped in Rockwell’s lap!

[starbug32]

So sorry I didnt attach the full doc as I didnt realise you needed to see the terms and conditions. I have attached the full document now.

There are 6 pages and i can only attach 5 at a time so heres the first 5

1.pdf

2.pdf

3.pdf

4.pdf

5.pdf

[starbug32]

And here is page 6.

6.pdf

[Stigman]

Hi Starbug,

 

It's pretty much all together, however I do not see any cancellation rights so I would place it in-dispute purely on that reason.

Also you need to claim back any PPI that you have paid.

Can someone please have a quick scan through to confirm this please? Thanks

 

Best Wishes

Stigman

[starbug32]

So you suggest sending a dispute letter? Can someone explain why and what this will likely achieve?

 

Thanks

[Bazooka Boo]

Did you sign for this on their premises? OR at home?

[nicklea]

Hi Starbug,

 

It's pretty much all together, however I do not see any cancellation rights so I would place it in-dispute purely on that reason.

 

 

It only needs to show cancellation rights if it's a cancellable agreement. Not all agreements are cancellable.

[starbug32]

It was some time ago and I cant be 100% sure but im almost certain this was signed at my own premisis and then sent back to them.

 

Thanks

[Bazooka Boo]

Well IMO it will come under the distance selling regs and MUST have a right to cancel, 14 days I believe,

However, others may have more input......'antecedent' might rear it's ugly head again!

[Halibutt]

Starbug - I've noticed from your scans that some still show your signature and the date signed. You may wish to check these and blank out any personally identifying information before reposting the links to the documents.

 

If you're not sure how to do this, please see my tutorial here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?266743-Extra-Tips-For-Communication-With-DCAs

 

It's the second point in the first post.

 

Good luck!

 

H. x

[nicklea]

'antecedent' might rear it's ugly head again!

:lol: LOL