Can a council issue a statutory demand in respect of unpaid PCNs?

[Newton RarRar]

Can a council issue a statutory demand in respect of numerous unpaid Penalty charge notices? PCNs do not generate CCJs.

 

Say where a person has accrued say 20 or more worth a few grand and the bailiffs can't get anything could they issue a SD and make a person bankrupt?

[maroondevo52]

Hello and Welcome,

 

I'll move this thread to the appropriate Forum.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[noddyaccount]

Can a council issue a statutory demand in respect of numerous unpaid Penalty charge notices? PCNs do not generate CCJs.

 

Say where a person has accrued say 20 or more worth a few grand and the bailiffs can't get anything could they issue a SD and make a person bankrupt?

 

Watching with interest as surely under such circumstances the council would have to comply with a higher standard of proof , rather than their minions just saying it is so . I was once threatened with being chased in a civil court for a Ccj for an unpaid pcn , which i would have welcomed as the council would have had to prove it , But as it was over the phone I think it was a bullies bluff to scare me into paying , would love to know the answer to this one , can the councils change juristiction when it suits them ?

Edited June 20, 2010 by noddyaccount

[lamma]

Interesting points. the answer may be somewhere in the County Courts Act 1984.

[maggie waggie]

A Council can use alternative methods of collection should a person not be able to pay. These powers are not widely used but can include :

1 - Attachment to earnings

2 - An order which stops people using their bank accounts until the debt is paid

3 - A type of Charging Order on your property

[noddyaccount]

A Council can use alternative methods of collection should a person not be able to pay. These powers are not widely used but can include :

1 - Attachment to earnings

2 - An order which stops people using their bank accounts until the debt is paid

3 - A type of Charging Order on your property

 

Are you sure this relates to parking matters , rather than unpaid council tax , etc etc . Where are the rules relating to this RTA 1991 ?

[Fair-Parking]

No the Council cannot. They never had a county court judgment which is the minimum requirement to be able ask for the court for any of the three listed above plus bankruptcy.

 

The standard of proof councils have to achieve for PCNs is merely a belief that a person owes money and that this belief was accepted by their own funded admin unit known as the Traffic Enforcement Centre which does not have the power to refuse authorisation of a warrant of execution. No county court has been involved.

 

This is way short of a county court requirement to obtain a judgment after a summons has been issued, defended but subsequently proved in open court where a judge will decide on 'the balance of probabilities'.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Fair-Parking,

 

Part 75 of the Rules & Practice Directions part of the Civil Procedure Rules which apply to the TEC appear to suggest otherwise.

 

PART 75 - TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT - Ministry of Justice

[Fair-Parking]

Part 75 may invite applications but as parts 71,72, 73 and CCR order 27 clearly state such measures apply only to judgment creditors. There are no judgment creditors in civil parking as judgments can only be obtained from county and high courts and usually after authentic trials.

 

The TEC cannot issue judgments and thus there are no creditors, only those who believe that money is owed to them via unproven allegations of parking or minor traffic contraventions.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

But what if the matter had been transferred to another county court for enforcement under 75.9

[Fair-Parking]

Another county court? Which was the first one?

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Another county court? Which was the first one?

 

That'll be Northampton County Court of which office the TEC is deemed to be part under 75.2 (2) (a)

[Fair-Parking]

No mention of Northampton County Court inder 75.2. Northampton County Court is separate from the TEC who until a few weeks ago had a answer mesaage which informed all callers NOT to contact Northampton County Court for parking 'as they cannot help you'. The latest message now doesn't say that, but it does refer to decriminlaised contraventions as an 'offence'.

 

The helpdesk at Northampton County Court will tell you that Northampton County Court is separate from the TEC and that you cannot receive a county court judgment for parking which you must have for attachment of earnings, charging orders, garnishees, oral exams and bankruptcies to be made against you

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

I guess they haven't read 2.1 of Practice Direction 75 which says:

All claims to which Part 75 applies must be started in the Traffic Enforcement Centre (‘the Centre’) at Northampton County Court.

PRACTICE DIRECTION 75 – TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT - Ministry of Justice

IME there is nothing unusual in the Public Sector (or private for that matter) of finding people who don't know their ar$e from their elbow!

[lamma]

but it does say 'at' and not 'in'. at is either temporal or geographical.

[Fair-Parking]

Quite Lamma.

No solicitors, barristers or judges will be found within the TEC 'court'. A court without any of the above does seem a little hard to visualise.

[lamma]

Once an OfR has been filed try asking for discovery under CPR part 31. Part 75 action clearly is a claim after all and its not small claims. And the TEC is not deemed to be a court, it is "the Centre is deemed to be part of the office of the court". i.e. Office admin, a place where papers are filed or even just a part of the building. Notice its 'office' not 'Office'.