Urgent Advice Please - Re: Nationwide Credit Card & Court Action

[supasnooper]

Subject Access Requests have a 40 calendar day compliance time limit from when the company receives the request.

[supasnooper]

I've merged your two threads

 

Please keep all the posts relating to this issue on this thread as it makes it far easier for everyone to offer the relevant help as the details are in one place.

[miss muppet]

Hi Terry, only just seen this, the embarassed defense is because of their very limited POC. Once it gets transferred out to your local court you will probably be ordered to do a witness statement, so start reading up on CAG using the legal successes forum on all the information you will need to back up the lack of agreement. There is a copy of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 in CAG Statutes library and all the case law to back things up can be looked at if you can't find it on CAG on the Law Society sites on the internet. Send your embarass. defense by recorded delivery.

[Docman]

Hi terry

First thing is to acknowledge service of the claim form within 14 days of service (which is taken as 5 days after the date of issue). This allows you a further 14 days to file a defence.

Next, you need to ask Nationwide for information. You can use a letter known as a CPR 31.14 (see miss m's post #23 above) to ask for copies of any document referred to in the Particulars of Claim (POCs). These are the paragraphs on the left of the claim form which outline the claim. Send the letter to the solicitors who have issued the claim on behalf of Nationwide. They should have sent the documents to you with the claim form or posted them to you separately.

In theory, Nationwide should respond in time for you to submit a full defence. In reality, claimants often don't respond and a defendant has to submit an interim defence which is often referred to on CAG as an 'embarrassed' defence because you state you are 'embarrassed' at having to file less than a full defence.

Once you file a defence, the Nationwide have 28 days to decide if they wish to proceed. If they do, the court will transfer the case to your local county court where you may have to attend.

[terrytibbs100]

Thank you to everyone for the responses so far, it really has been a massive help. Having already got the 14 day extension, I have got a partial batch of information from my SAR (DN, CCA, T&Cs but no statement data or details of fees/charges) so I'll take Docman's advice and submit an embarrassed defence. NW have another 3 weeks or so to get the rest to me it would seem.

 

Thanks also to Docman and Supasnooper for explaining the likely procedures and timescales.

 

Will post my POC here later (when I can get access to a scanner again) just for reference in case they have made any more errors

 

Thanks again to all.

 

TT

[terrytibbs100]

Will post my POC here later (when I can get access to a scanner again) just for reference in case they have made any more errors

 

Here is the POC - can anyone see any problems with it?

 

Thanks again.

 

[Docman]

OK, if a bit large. Just send off the CPR 31.14 letter for the 'Agreement' and the 'Default Notice'. No other documents are mentioned in the POCs, so there is no point asking for Notice of Assignment or anything else.

[diddydicky]

the terms and conditions CANNOT have been on the same document as your signature

 

they are clearly headed that they are YOUR COPY TO KEEP

 

so unless you have some way of taking the terms and conditions off the back of the signed form and keeping them whilst sending the signed part back, id say that what they have alleged to be on the back of the signature document is the customer cancellation copy of the terms and conditions which would have been sent to you within 7 days of the agreement being executed.

 

which begs the question what was "contained" within the signature document.

 

if the "agreement" they sent you did not contain the pt's then it was not a true copy of an "executed" agreement, in which case they are in default of s78 and so should not be enforcing the alleged agreement

[terrytibbs100]

the terms and conditions CANNOT have been on the same document as your signature

 

they are clearly headed that they are YOUR COPY TO KEEP

 

so unless you have some way of taking the terms and conditions off the back of the signed form and keeping them whilst sending the signed part back, id say that what they have alleged to be on the back of the signature document is the customer cancellation copy of the terms and conditions which would have been sent to you within 7 days of the agreement being executed.

 

which begs the question what was "contained" within the signature document.

 

if the "agreement" they sent you did not contain the pt's then it was not a true copy of an "executed" agreement, in which case they are in default of s78 and so should not be enforcing the alleged agreement

 

Fantastic! Thanks for this. I'm sending back an embarrassed defence on Monday by Special Delivery. Am I right in saying that is all I need to do now, or would you recommend putting this level of information as above on the court claim form?

 

Thanks again to everyone

[miss muppet]

Yes that's right TT, keep all the other stuff for when your case gets transferred out.

[diddydicky]

looking further at the agreement- there is a minimal reference in the signature page to "the conditions which i have read"

 

this in no way confirms the existance of the PT's being contained within the sigfnature document nor of the T & Cs being "embodied" within the document

 

it is patently a pre contractual application form which cannot bind you to a future contract.

 

There may also be some ruling as to how long they have to countersign the applicaiton form and i would put great store by a suggestion that i would want a full explanantion (including witness eviddence from the person who receives mail and stamps it ) as to how it came to be signed two days before it was received!

 

i note also that EVEN IF (which they were definately NOT- for reasons i stated above) the T & C's were contained or embodied in the signature document - they would still be ineffective because the PT's may NOT be interspersed within the general T & C's.

 

The T & C's also make no mention of charges

 

is there a date code at the very end of those T & C's (as there is on the application form?) you are looking ideally for a date AFTER the agreement was signed.

[terrytibbs100]

Yes that's right TT, keep all the other stuff for when your case gets transferred out.

 

Thanks, MM. Will file embarrassed defence special delivery on Monday then. Needs to be in Swindon by Thurs.

[terrytibbs100]

looking further at the agreement- there is a minimal reference in the signature page to "the conditions which i have read"

 

this in no way confirms the existance of the PT's being contained within the sigfnature document nor of the T & Cs being "embodied" within the document

 

it is patently a pre contractual application form which cannot bind you to a future contract.

 

There may also be some ruling as to how long they have to countersign the applicaiton form and i would put great store by a suggestion that i would want a full explanantion (including witness eviddence from the person who receives mail and stamps it ) as to how it came to be signed two days before it was received!

 

i note also that EVEN IF (which they were definately NOT- for reasons i stated above) the T & C's were contained or embodied in the signature document - they would still be ineffective because the PT's may NOT be interspersed within the general T & C's.

 

The T & C's also make no mention of charges

 

is there a date code at the very end of those T & C's (as there is on the application form?) you are looking ideally for a date AFTER the agreement was signed.

 

Thanks for the excellent news and detailed advice. Will scour the T&Cs and all other documents for dates as you say. Can't see a date code on first look though.

 

Thanks again to yourself and everyone else who has helped and advised so far. Much appreciated.

[terrytibbs100]

Submitted my embarrassed defence by Special Delivery yesterday and then lo and behold, the statements turned up today!

 

What will happen now, I think it weas reasonable for me to wait until 2 days before my deadline (24 June) to submit my defence, but will Nationwide now be likely to argue that they supplied the paperwork in time?

 

Or is it more likely that they knew exactly what they were doing and wanted to get it to me with no time to react for my defence?

 

Anyone got any ideas of what might happen next?

 

Thanks again, TT

[Docman]

The court will send a copy of your defence to nationwide who then have 28 days to see if they wish to proceed. If they do, the case should be transferred to your local county court and you will be issued with an Allocation Questionnaire [AQ] that you have to complete and return to the court.

 

Incidentally, have they sent you a copy of the CCA and DN in response to your CPR31.14 request or filed the documents with the court? Can you post these documents without your identifiers?

[terrytibbs100]

The court will send a copy of your defence to nationwide who then have 28 days to see if they wish to proceed. If they do, the case should be transferred to your local county court and you will be issued with an Allocation Questionnaire [AQ] that you have to complete and return to the court.

 

Incidentally, have they sent you a copy of the CCA and DN in response to your CPR31.14 request or filed the documents with the court? Can you post these documents without your identifiers?

 

Thanks for this, will have to see what happens next now!

 

The DN and CCA are at the top of this thread, Docman. Please let me know if you can't see them and I'll re-post.

 

Thanks again for your time and help.

[terrytibbs100]

Hi,

 

Just got notification back from Swindon CC today that my defence against Nationwide Credit Card's court action has been rejected.

 

More background info is here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/262680-urgent-advice-please-re.html

 

I've started another thread as I'm looking for more specific info on this issue and want more people to see it. Hope that's OK. Merge if necessary and apologies to mods if this is inappropriate.

 

Basically, they have said that "unless the defendent files and serves a defence setting out a positive basis upon which he disputes the claims by 4pm on 21/7/2010, the existing defence will be struck out".

 

On the accompanying sheet, it says "with reference to your defence which was referred to the district judge who has stated "the request under CPR31.14 is misplaced. If he wants further information, he should apply under Part 18".

 

Any advice on to what to do next? How do I apply under Part 18? And is there any way I could get a response from Nationwide by 21 July? - because by then I have to give a "positive" defence.

 

Spanner in the works is that I'm away from Saturday 10-17 July inclusive so I've got very little time to organise myself.

 

Panicking a bit!

 

Any help as ever is gratefully received.

[terrytibbs100]

Sorry to bump my own thread but I'm really short of time as I need to respond by 21 July but I'm away from a week of that. Has anyone got any ideas please?

 

Thanks!

[terrytibbs100]

Got an update.

 

Just got notification back from Swindon CC today that my defence against Nationwide Credit Card's court action has been rejected.

 

Basically, they have said that "unless the defendent files and serves a defence setting out a positive basis upon which he disputes the claims by 4pm on 21/7/2010, the existing defence will be struck out".

 

On the accompanying sheet, it says "with reference to your defence which was referred to the district judge who has stated "the request under CPR31.14 is misplaced. If he wants further information, he should apply under part 18".

 

Any advice on to what to do next? How do I apply under part 18? And is there any way I could get a response from Nationwide by 21 July? - because by then I have to give a "positive" defence.

 

Spanner in the works is that I'm away from Saturday 10-17 July inclusive so I've got very little time to organise myself. Have put some of this info on a nother thread in case it attracts people who won't see this one.

 

Panicking a bit!

 

Any help as ever is gratefully received.

[wycombe]

You need to make a CPR 18 request.

 

Have a look at post 10 here for a template:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/254011-wycombe-restons-mbna.html

 

Here you are requesting specific documents and information to do with your case.

 

The solicitors acting for the Claimant have 14 days in which to comply. Send Recorded Delivery and note the date received by the opposition. The countdown starts from when received.

[wycombe]

It may be a good idea to ask one of the site team to combine your threads that deal with this case.

 

Click on the little red triangle in bottom left of post - the one that says 'report post' when you hover the cursor over it - then ask for the threads to be merged.

 

If you need urgent help and no one is responding to your thread this is also the action to take as a site member will caste there eye over and give or find suitable advice and help to you. Always better to keep all in one place as it stops confusion and flicking about between threads - and you are more likely to keep interest and help going.

[wycombe]

Have a look at your other post and get the two combined:-).

[42man]

I've never heard of a judge saying CPR31.14 is misplaced....i'm not sure of the answer but these links might be useful - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159445-getting-them-reveal-their.html and this one - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/241827-legal-action-how-start.html

[terrytibbs100]

Thanks for this - will do it today. However, 14 days will take me beyond my deadline that the judge set (July 21). Any ideas of if I can get that extended somehow and how I might do that? Hopefully NW will reply within that timeframe anyway, though somehow I doubt it.

 

Thanks again.

 

You need to make a CPR 18 request.

 

Have a look at post 10 here for a template:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/254011-wycombe-restons-mbna.html

 

Here you are requesting specific documents and information to do with your case.

 

The solicitors acting for the Claimant have 14 days in which to comply. Send Recorded Delivery and note the date received by the opposition. The countdown starts from when received.

[wycombe]

Thanks for this - will do it today. However, 14 days will take me beyond my deadline that the judge set (July 21). Any ideas of if I can get that extended somehow and how I might do that? Hopefully NW will reply within that timeframe anyway, though somehow I doubt it.

 

Thanks again.

 

I really have no idea if you can get the deadline given extended. Perhaps give the Court a ring and see what they say.

 

If there is no way to get this extended then you will have to prepare a defence using the information you have been given by the Claimant thus far - except this time you will not be able to plead 'embarassed'.

 

There is nothing to stop you from mentioning within it that documents have not been supplied by the Claimant - then assert that no evidence exists to support this ot that etc etc.

 

I agree with 42man this stance of the Judge is very odd in this regard .