Darren vs Bank of Scotland. ** WON **

[dazzaboy2]

Hi S,

 

I think I'm going to use the MCOL / English system as I have friends down there whose address I can use for the paperwork. I'm hoping to get this done and dusted in one go rather than split it up into £750 chunks.

 

Hopefully Ryanair will still be doing cheap flights to Bournemouth if it gets that far lol.

[stevokenevo]

No problem, i wouldn't worry about having to appear in court, it is VERY rare, and i'm pretty sure all the cases that have went to court, have never been tried, they ALWAYS settle at the last minute, the one thing i would say is, if you have a good read at some of the threads, going through the english court seems to take a lot longer over all than up here, i was 6 weeks from issuing my claim till i got the dosh back, i issued the next claim that very day, got a return date for 4 weeks later and im 100% positive it will be settled by then at the latest. I think you would be lucky to get it done and dusted in 10 weeks down there!?!

Good luck whatever way you do it anyway

 

S

[dazzaboy2]

To be honest, I've never understood why you couldn't claim interest from the very start. After all, it's your money and you've lost interest on it. Then I found this on another thread....

 

" Could anybody clear up why it is okay to claim 16% for the contractual rate in the preliminary letter (according to BankFodder)?

 

We are told specifically and repeatedly not to claim interest until much later on.

 

Vampiress's calculation template says quite clearly: "This interest is calculated and claimed only when a court claim is raised."

 

 

If we can in fact claim 16% at the time of the prelim letter, this will have a significant impact on the amount of my £3800 claim!

 

Can someone clarify if we can claim 16% interest at this stage or not.

 

Ta muchly.......

[Mairi]

as i said earlier Dazzaboy, you can, but you have to include it in your prelim + LBA. If they charge you 16.9% or even 29% on an unauthorised overdraft then you can hit them with the same rate of interest on the penalty charges applied. I'm sorry i can't advise you any further on this matter, I didn't know anything about this till id already submitted my 2nd claim. (have been around too long me thinks)LOL.

But there are plenty of others that have used the banks rates of interest against them and of course won. Most of the info you'll need is on the general forum.

Also check out the new spread sheets, they'd help you work out where to start.

Here's another very interesting thread about it too.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/7252-new-way-looking-interest.html

 

Sorry, it's another biggie.

mairi

[dazzaboy2]

Cheers Mairi! Yer a wee star!

 

My prelim isn't away yet, infact I'm just putting it together now. So I guess what I shall do now is find out what my banks unauthorised borrowing rate of interest is and include that too...............it will be worth it in my case as I'm claiming almost £3800.

 

Thanks again............

[dazzaboy2]

Hi guys,

 

Right, this is the prelim letter I plan to send tomorrow. Feedback on content would be much appreciated before I send!!

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Request for repayment of charges in relation to Mr dazzaboy2.

 

Account Numbers: xxxxx, xxxxx

 

My request

I am writing to ask you to refund to me the charges, which you have levied from the above noted accounts since June 2002.

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my accounts in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits, unpaid cheques and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations.

If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by providing me with a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

Additionally, it has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary.

 

 

Your responsibilities

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract, which you agreed to at the time that I opened my accounts. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner, which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my accounts in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that you have deceived me into agreeing to pay them. Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

What I require

I calculate that you have taken £3,766 in unlawful chargesbetween my two accounts. In addition to this, I also request that you refund me £1332.11 in contractual interest, which I have calculated as of the date of this letter at your authorised overdraft rate of 18.9%. I must state also that I feel I could claim interest at your unauthorised borrowing rate of 29.8%, however as a gesture of goodwill and in the interest of settling this claim amicably I have used your authorised rate. I enclose a schedule of the charges applied to each account for which I am claiming with this letter.

 

My targets to resolve this matter

 

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and informing me of the date by which I will receive full payment by cheque.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim, which will include interest, at the expiry of the second deadline.

Yours faithfully,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've put in the letter that I calculated the interest as of the date of the letter. Should I mention that as the claim continues the interest grows??

Also, I intend to use MCOL, can I do that if its over 5k? And if I use the English system should I use an English spreadsheet?

Thanks in anticipation lovely peeps.....................

[Guest willowb]

Hi:)

 

Why have you added interest (contractual or not) at the prelim stage? You should only do that at the LBA stage and along with the LBA send a schedule of the charges and the interest. Infact with your prelim letter all that is required is a schedule of the charges ONLY.

 

When you come to file a claim with MCOL, and they have acknowledged the claim, then and only then can you start charging the 8% daily interest.

 

Wxx

[dazzaboy2]

Oh I think I may be getting confuddled,

 

In bankfodders thread on 'why is no-one claiming contractual interest' it says that it should be included in the prelim and LBA, and also that if you're claiming contractual interest you can't claim the 8% at the MCOL stage.

 

Have I picked this up wrong...............I better go check! lol

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/7252-new-way-looking-interest.html

[Mairi]

post 40 here too

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/18313-why-no-one-claiming-2.html

mairi

[dazzaboy2]

Ok,

 

So the facts seem right. Does my letter seem ok? And should I mention about the interest growing with time..........

 

ta muchly

[Guest willowb]

I know what you are saying and it confused me also:confused: But I have to go with what's written in the step by step instructions. What you've linked is a thread, if what is claimed in that thread was a correct method for claiming charges back then why does it say this in the step by step instructions ?(if this is wrong then someone change it????:-| )...

 

(2)

 

If you know how much you are claiming (i.e. because you already have all your statements), then send the preliminary approach letter - PRELIM LETTER - in the library section.

 

Edit the letter according to your circumstances, removing any details not applicable etc..

 

Enclose a schedule detailing the charges you are claiming, but do NOT include the 8% interest on the schedule yet.

 

 

(3)

 

 

 

 

One of the following will now happen:

 

A) The bank or Credit Card company will ignore your request and you will not receive a reply. If this is the case, allow for the 14 day deadline and proceed to the next stage of the claim.

 

B) You will receive a fairly standard letter saying "sorry you are not happy, we'll get back to you sometime in the next decade..." Again, if this is the case, allow for the 14 day deadline and proceed to the next stage of the claim.

 

C) You will be offered a partial refund but it will be offered as a "Full and Final" settlement of your claim. We would advise you to accept this - but only on the condition that it is a partial settlement and that you will continue with your claim to recover full funds.

 

D) You will be offered a full settlement of your claim. Experience shows this to be very unlikely at this early stage, but it just might happen.

 

 

(4)

 

If you are not offered a FULL refund then proceed to the Letter Before Action (LBA) in the library.

 

However do make sure that you understand that there is a possibility that the Bank may decide to defend and that you may have to present your case to a judge in a Small Claims Court. This is very rare, but you should be aware of the possibility.

 

If you have to issue a court claim, the spreadsheet mentioned earlier will also calculate interest at 8% as allowed by s.69 the County Courts Act (1984) and which you will add to your claim at that point. NOTE: you do not claim the 8% unless you put in a court claim.

But then I found this.....

 

If you send the bank a letter before you have given them time to pay up (and are not claiming contractual interest), demanding the statutory interest of 8% APR they will know that you do not know what you are doing and this will more than likely end up with you NOT getting your money back.

 

All charges and dates are ficticious, but here are some spreadsheet templates to help you calculate the interest. Simple versions will calculate the 8% APR only, to be used when filing court claim. Advanced spreadsheets will also help you to calculate the overdraft interest you have been charged by your bank, which you can request at the preliminary stage.

 

what I thought I knew and from what I have learned from people here, I apparently did not know!!!!

 

Head is mashed, another glass of red for me!!!

 

Wxx

 

[dazzaboy2]

Thanks Willow,

 

Your help really is appreciated and I agree completely. The thread deviated from the step by step instructions hence the reason I want to make sure it's spot on! The thread was started by Bankfodder, so I'm pretty sure it's right and it would appear that others are doing it this way and have won, so what the hell, I'll give it a bash. Worst case scenario is I'll get the bog standard 8%.

 

Enjoy your Red! I'm just about to pour a V+C ......cheers.......!

[Guest willowb]

Yes, cheers honey:D

 

Too many people get confused about this issue, I thought I knew and now I don't.....maybe it needs to be made clearer in the FAQs??

 

But you can't argue with the last point I made (quote from FAQs....)

 

All charges and dates are ficticious, but here are some spreadsheet templates to help you calculate the interest. Simple versions will calculate the 8% APR only, to be used when filing court claim. Advanced spreadsheets will also help you to calculate the overdraft interest you have been charged by your bank, which you can request at the preliminary stage.

So, I think you are right sweetie...GO FOR IT!!!!

 

Wxx

[Guest willowb]

Right ok, the red wine haze has disappeared:)

 

So, to clarify and please someone correct me if I'm wrong....

 

1. You SHOULD NOT claim the 8% apr at the prelim stage. But if you are claiming contractual interest then this is ok to claim at this stage.

 

2. The 8% APR should be claimed at the LBA stage, schedules of both charges and interest should be attached.

 

3. If you are going to claim back the interest charged on your account due to o/d (made up of charges.....) then you can claim this at the prelim stage.

 

4. You can NOT claim interest on the interest charges being claimed......I think I read that somewhere (although I got away with it:rolleyes: )

 

Hummmmmmm If this is correct, then it's a lot clearer to me now....LOL

 

Wxx

[weej]

correct, except for point 2.

 

The 8% gets added on once you file a claim, not at LBA stage.

 

J

[stevokenevo]

correct, except for point 2.

 

The 8% gets added on once you file a claim, not at LBA stage.

 

And a schedule of charges should be sent with BOTH the prelim and LBA letters!

 

S

[Guest willowb]

Yes, I knew that....just missed putting it in:oops:

 

But as for the 8% interest schedule not being attached at the LBA stage, well most people do and I've seen are advised to do so. I only added it on when I filed a claim and on the day I filed a claim I sent a schedule to the bank including a schedule for interest.

 

Though, I don't see why you shouldn't include interest at the LBA stage, afterall it is a letter before action.....meaning that you fully intend on issuing a claim through the Courts and therefore are entitled to include the interest stated in the attached speadsheet? It is a letter of intent, something you will do in the future, well....you intend to charge the interest!

 

Maybe a note to say, this is the interest which will be payable if you do not refund the charges? If they make an offer for the full amount of charges then the interest is set aside. A good incentive for them to pay up maybe?

 

?????

Wxxx

[dazzaboy2]

Well,

 

the prelim letter is away. Should be with them on Monday! Lets see what happens...............

 

2 weeks and counting..............

 

Game on!

[dazzaboy2]

reply recieved from BOS today..........

 

Dear Dazzaboy2,

Thank you for your letter which was recived at this office on 31st October 2006. I am sorry to learn that you are unhappy with your charges applied to your bank account.

We're keen to deal with your concerns as quickly as possible. A customer relations manager will investigate the points you have raised and you will recieve a reply shortly, but certainly no later than 4 weeks.

You will find enclosed a copy of our leafletwhich tells you how we handle your complaint.

Your concerns will be dealt with as quickly as possible, but to help us deal more efficiently with your enquiry, please quote xxxxxxxxx when writing or telephoning the number at the top of this letter.

Yours sincerely,

Well, they have until the 14th November or I'll be sending my LBA...........

 

Lets see what happens...........

[stevokenevo]

The 14 days go from the day you dated your letter, not the date they received it, and your right, dont hang about for them, get the LBA sent off sharp,

 

S

[isidore]

It may be best to work from the day they receive it though, because if the claim ends up in court they could potentially say they weren't give enough time. Ok it's only a few days, but it's probably better to be safe than sorry....

[stevokenevo]

How many times have you received a demand or a reminder for payment giving you 7 days or whatever to pay!?! it is always from the date of the letter, not when you receive it. The same applies to them. Quite often they reply thanking you for your letter dated blah blah, and sometimes they dont even mention the date of you letter. Stick to the tried and tested procedure which is fourteen days from the date of your letter. 2 points, they will reply declining the request for payment and it wont end up in court anyway.

[isidore]

I totally agree with you, but that is just bullying tactics.

 

For the sake of one or two days it's surely better to be safe than sorry. The last thing you want is for a claim to get all complicated because the bank tries the "not enough time" option.

 

Just giving my opinion......

[weej]

just a small point, it dosent really matter as when you send something by Royal Mail, legally the recipient is deemed as having received it.

[Guest willowb]

Yes that's right!!! from the moment you posted that letter count down the days, stick to your time table.....don't let them delay your mission any longer;)

 

Wxx