Full & Final Offers

[billyray]

Anyone had any full & final offers accepted with Amex or one of their DCA's? If so, what was the % rate?

[ManSizedRooster]

100 pence in the pound:-D

 

Sorry, that's not very helpful, then again neither are shAMEX. Best I had was an offer from them of 75p in the pound. I assume your going to make them an offer?

[billyray]

Yes, will make them an offer.

 

Was 75% to amex, or through a DCA?

[ManSizedRooster]

Hi

 

It was an offer from AMEX but not on the basis of a CCA request or anything, it was just out of the blue. That was on a £4000 debt.

 

MSR

[billyray]

Wow. That wasnt a bad offer considering it was direct from Amex. Was that for full settlement, or partial?

 

My debt is with a DCA, so I would want around 50%, but will see.

[ManSizedRooster]

It was Full and Final. It was at the time when there were rumours that AMEX was struggling. I didn’t have the money to accept the offer so I missed out. What’s your angle for F&F, unenforceable CCA? Who's the DCA ?

[billyray]

Yes I am going for the unenforceable CCA angle.

 

Newman is the DCA. They are horrid.

[JPT]

I was recently offered 70p in the pound from Newmans. This was after I asked them to supply an executable copy of my agreement with AMEX from 1997!

 

Surprise, surprise, all I received was a copy of the application form unsigned by them and no copy of the terms and conditions.

 

I am still waiting.....

[billyray]

Thanks JPT. I was offered the same too. Did you get them to accept/offer less?

[JPT]

No - I ignored it.

 

If they cannot send a copy of the executable form of the agreement - they will not be able to enforce it if it ever gets to court - think I will play the long game just now....playing them at their own game!

[billyray]

I went down the othe route. I made a counter offer, will update when/if they accept.

 

But 70% from a DCA is pretty poor i reckon. 70-75% from the original creditor is fair enough. But its probably an opening gambit from them.

[the_shadow]

Remember that if a DCA *has* purchased the debt outright, it'll be at approx 5-10% of the value, your paying 50% gives them a whacking profit margin

 

I would always start at a lower amount and then up it with a final second offer.

 

If the debt is just assigned then its Amex who will decide how much and they'll want most if not all of the debt repaid

 

S.

[billyray]

How can you tell if the debt has been sold or assigned?

[the_shadow]

How can you tell if the debt has been sold or assigned?

 

Sometimes its difficult, the DCA's tend not to want you to know for some reason.... basically if you have a notice of assignment that states they have purchased the rights and obligations of the debt then on face value they have purchased the debt... anything from a DCA stating we are acting as agents and they obviously havent purchased.

 

S.

[billyray]

Thanks for the info shadow.

 

I think my debt with newmans is under the "acting as agents" premise. Damn.

 

Furthermore, looking at my credit file, I can only see Amex on there, and not Newman.

[the_shadow]

Thanks for the info shadow.

 

I think my debt with newmans is under the "acting as agents" premise. Damn.

 

Furthermore, looking at my credit file, I can only see Amex on there, and not Newman.

 

If you look around the amex forum section you'll see that they very rarely give away control, they get involved at all stages in chasing the debt.

 

It still doesnt hurt to start low and increase the offer later on, just be sure to head the offer "without prejudice save as to costs" so they cant use it in court against you.

 

S.

[billyray]

Thanks Shadow.

 

I havent put "without prejudice save as to costs" on my letter, but I have made them an offer, without acknowledging the debt, eg said this account is in dispute etc, but to stop you hassling me, i will give u £x. I hope this is ok.

 

Judging by what you have said, it will be difficult to get a lower offer away with these. I was thinking I would get away. 50%.

[the_shadow]

Thanks Shadow.

 

I havent put "without prejudice save as to costs" on my letter, but I have made them an offer, without acknowledging the debt, eg said this account is in dispute etc, but to stop you hassling me, i will give u £x. I hope this is ok.

 

Judging by what you have said, it will be difficult to get a lower offer away with these. I was thinking I would get away. 50%.

 

You just never know.... so many variables...

 

What the month is looking like for the bank, near quarters end for reporting and final push for any cash possible etc etc.

 

S.

[billyray]

No joy on my F&F with Newman/Amex. They have just re-iterated what they said last time as there "best offer". They extended the deadline for this.

 

Any ideas what i do now? Do i keep increasing my offer until they bite? Ignore them for a bit?

[ManSizedRooster]

If you increase the offer until they bite you may find that they bite at 100%. I think you have to play harder. Remind them that the CCA if unenforceable, state that under the circumstances the f&f offer was generous, withdraw the offer and cease with the monthly payments if you haven’t yet done so. Actually, on that last part, bear in mind that they can default you for non payment. Default is not a nice place to be. On the upside if they’ve defaulted you already then it’s game on.

Edited March 11, 2010 by ManSizedRooster

[billyray]

Thanks ManSizedRooster.

 

I've told them loads of times that the CCA is unenforceable but they say it is.

 

I'm not current paying them anything, but I'm noticing the amount on Newmans letters are going up.

 

They have defaulted me, and wont withdraw the default even if they accept a F&F, instead they said it would be marked as "satisfied".

 

Sort of stalemate at the moment.

 

I cant really write back and say "what's the lowest" you will go? Stonewalling me at the moment

[banker_rhymes_with]

If you look around the amex forum section you'll see that they very rarely give away control, they get involved at all stages in chasing the debt.

Almost certainly because the Debts are not theirs to sell.

 

Their US Parent Company having Securitised them 100% over in the good old U S of A.

 

So, they have no option but to keep the Debts and chase for every penny, because they have to pay if the deal turns sour.

 

Next question, when they take you to Court, ask them if they own the Debt...and watch them shuffle and squirm.

 

Cheers,

BRW

Edited March 11, 2010 by banker_rhymes_with
Tripe-O

[billyray]

I wonder if anyone has had a F&F accepted under 70%?

 

I reckon I'll ignore them, then they'll write to say the deadline for F&F has passed, and they will start court action.

 

So I dont know what to do, as I dont want to go to court.

[billyray]

The deal on the table is currently 70%.

 

Can I write and say I will offer you 50% or 1% per month for x years, or is it too confusing for them?

 

Is 70% good with these guys?

 

On the basis of the CCA they have sent me it is unenforceable as its an application form. However, I wouldnt put it past them to take me to court anyway.

 

Any tips?

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Billyray!

 

The deal on the table is currently 70%.

Don't count on that offer being genuine.

 

It's almost certainly a trick to...

 

 

• Get you to call them so they can work their DCA telephone magic on you.
  

 

• Get you to say what you can pay, so they'll know you have at least that to grab (they'll use that against you in Court if you plead poverty).
  

 

• Get you to say something they can use against you (see above).
  

 

Note my comments above about how Arsemex are usually unable to sell these Debts because Arsemex no longer owns them. This rather neatly explains why they are so hostile...they probably have something to hide themselves.

 

Getting them to admit that is the prize!

 

Cheers,

BRW